Skeptic Project

Hello everyone, I'm new to this site and it's pretty cool. I'm 16 years old, rather new to being a skeptic

Anyway, I still get scared of Illuminati conspiracy theories and I was really hoping you guys could help me debunk some stuff, I can barely function when these worries are on my mind :( . I'll post some things that worry me below. it's alot to look through (8 different points) but if you guys could look through it all and help me I'd be really grateful, thanks.

1. This guy "Forerunner 777" on Youtube, his channel: (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheForerunner777)

there's this video from another user: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYEjZATvZE) with a bio about Forerunner in the video description: "(Chirstopher Hudson(Forerunner777), Former NYC screen, music video and song writer, who ran with the elite of the entertainment industry, tells how DEMON POSSESSION, gave him the talent to write the songs and movie scripts for the HipHop scene. Here why and how he came out to start an organization called Forerunner Choronicles, which Exposes the dark parts of the entertainment industry.)" Not sure about what to think of this video either...

I don't know if that bio is really what forerunner did before/if forerunner really is who he says he is or if he's just paranoid/schizophrenic, or just scamming for money but, yeah...

2. there's this video of a former model, I think it first appeared on the site "World Star Hip Hop", but now it's on forerunner777's channel also: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAQy2RwQi3o&feature=plcp)

she claims she had to chant "666" during filming for a music video, could this just be a lie to scare people? i really don't know and I can't think about it without feeling scared.

3. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DGlp_aTM6Q), now I know this could be referring to anything, not necessarily to the Illuminati but EVERY comment I can find for this song/skit is someone who believes it's about the Illuminati, and really, I don't know what to think either...

found this too: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLtuAwXzAg), not sure what to think of it but I'd rather not think about it or this fear is just gonna get worse

4. rapper Prodigy of the duo "Mobb Deep" has also spoken out about these theories, (you can google "Prodigy prison letters" where he starts talking about the Illuminati and how Jay-Z is part of them, all that jazz. Professor Griff of the group "Public Enemy" also speaks about them now. The reason this scares me is because, well, they're in the music industry, did they just find out about these theories somewhere, have they known all along? I'd hope the real scenario is the first one, where they just found out about these theories somehow and didn't actually "sell their souls to the devil"

5. this doesn't bug me so much, but you got underground rappers like "Immortal Technique" and "K-Rino" who believe this stuff too, but then again, they're underground rappers, they aren't really part of the big entertainment industry so I don't think they'd really know for sure if this Illuminati stuff is real.

(yes, I am a rap/hip-hop fan as you can see, but I don't listen to any of the rappers I've mentioned above other than 50 Cent and Jay-Z, neither are in my list of favourite rappers though)

6. I don't remember the exact name of the videos, but I think the first one was "American Soldier speaks out on 2012, america is doomed" something like that on Youtube, the other video I think is called "former CIA agent speaks about New World Order" , also on Youtube

7. this is weird: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dev8d8IEcig), a Donald Trump commerical, after you watch it, doesn't the commercial seem really weird. the sheep are on tower-like pedestals and the 2 visible sheep are "9" and "11". now anyone who's been to a hotel knows that the odd numbers and even numbers are on seperate sides, but I don't get it, why "9" and "11" (hmm, 9/11). and there are "sheep" in the commercial too. If this is supposed to be a satirical/humorous commercial then I guess I'm just not understanding it but it's really weird.

8. okay last one: you can go on any conspiracy theory site (such as God Like Productions) and find some people who claim to have been a part of the illuminati and now they're "exposing them", there's also this guy named "Donald Marshall" who's claiming he's been part of it (Google "Donald Marshall Illuminati" and his "story" is posted in various sites). Again I don't know what to think, are these people (Donald included) legit and telling the truth or are they just suffering from schizophrenia or some other delusional disorder and actually believe what they're saying even though it's not true.

that's all, there's so many videos about this stuff on Youtube, so many...I don't watch a majority of them because I fear it'll just worsen my fear, but it's just so much :(

again I know this is alot of stuff, but If you guys could all pitch in and help me debunk these things and stop believing stuff like this so quickly, it would be a great help. Thank You

Newbie

Quote from Newbie

Hello everyone, I'm new to this site and it's pretty cool. I'm 16 years old, rather new to being a skeptic

Anyway, I still get scared of Illuminati conspiracy theories and I was really hoping you guys could help me debunk some stuff, I can barely function when these worries are on my mind :( . I'll post some things that worry me below. it's alot to look through (8 different points) but if you guys could look through it all and help me I'd be really grateful, thanks.

Well let me be the first to say welcome to the Skeptic Project as well as taking your first steps into skepticism. Seeing your willingness to disbelieve these theories is a starting point to getting you to disbelieve these theories. Most of it would be on your part though just an fyi. Although it is still definitely possible so long as you listen and accept knowledge and reason. Furthering your studies may also help here too (it helped me so that's why I'm telling you this).

Quote from Newbie


1. This guy "Forerunner 777" on Youtube, his channel: (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheForerunner777)

there's this video from another user: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYEjZATvZE) with a bio about Forerunner in the video description: "(Chirstopher Hudson(Forerunner777), Former NYC screen, music video and song writer, who ran with the elite of the entertainment industry, tells how DEMON POSSESSION, gave him the talent to write the songs and movie scripts for the HipHop scene. Here why and how he came out to start an organization called Forerunner Choronicles, which Exposes the dark parts of the entertainment industry.)" Not sure about what to think of this video either...

I don't know if that bio is really what forerunner did before/if forerunner really is who he says he is or if he's just paranoid/schizophrenic, or just scamming for money but, yeah...

2. there's this video of a former model, I think it first appeared on the site "World Star Hip Hop", but now it's on forerunner777's channel also: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAQy2RwQi3o&feature=plcp)

she claims she had to chant "666" during filming for a music video, could this just be a lie to scare people? i really don't know and I can't think about it without feeling scared.

3. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DGlp_aTM6Q), now I know this could be referring to anything, not necessarily to the Illuminati but EVERY comment I can find for this song/skit is someone who believes it's about the Illuminati, and really, I don't know what to think either...

found this too: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLtuAwXzAg), not sure what to think of it but I'd rather not think about it or this fear is just gonna get worse

4. rapper Prodigy of the duo "Mobb Deep" has also spoken out about these theories, (you can google "Prodigy prison letters" where he starts talking about the Illuminati and how Jay-Z is part of them, all that jazz. Professor Griff of the group "Public Enemy" also speaks about them now. The reason this scares me is because, well, they're in the music industry, did they just find out about these theories somewhere, have they known all along? I'd hope the real scenario is the first one, where they just found out about these theories somehow and didn't actually "sell their souls to the devil"

5. this doesn't bug me so much, but you got underground rappers like "Immortal Technique" and "K-Rino" who believe this stuff too, but then again, they're underground rappers, they aren't really part of the big entertainment industry so I don't think they'd really know for sure if this Illuminati stuff is real.

(yes, I am a rap/hip-hop fan as you can see, but I don't listen to any of the rappers I've mentioned above other than 50 Cent and Jay-Z, neither are in my list of favourite rappers though)

I'm just going to bunch the Illuminati rappers together considering that they are relatively similar. Generally I find this claim to be similar to the "Devil's in Rock Music" claim also. It's false because for one you'd have to accept there being some sort of supernatural world rather than just a physical world. This doesn't work well with anyone who doesn't believe in a supernatural world because they don't think that there is one. Thus the burden of proof lays onto those who claim that there is some sort of demonic intervention into the world of rap music. Considering that there is no way to give physical evidence for this, it is safe to say that there isn't a demonic presence in rap music anyways. It could be possible that these rappers individually practice a religion that isn't the typical mainstream Christianity, however that is highly unlikely IMO considering

Secondly, the Illuminati have had no connection to demonism at all. The Illuminati were a group of people formed by Weishaupt in Bavaria in the 18th century. The purpose of the group was to allow people to freely express their thoughts, opinions, and views about any topic that was considered taboo (i.e. the existence of God, the government, freedoms). The only reason they would be claimed to have a connection to deomonism would be because they peddled in what was considered taboo. Obviously someone willing to step into "those areas" would be labeled as such.

Quote from Newbie


6. I don't remember the exact name of the videos, but I think the first one was "American Soldier speaks out on 2012, america is doomed" something like that on Youtube, the other video I think is called "former CIA agent speaks about New World Order" , also on Youtube

Anyone claiming that America is doomed is almost always going to tout conspiracy theories from their mouths. There are those who are and do criticize the US whether it be politically socially or economically, but whenever there's America is doomed you can almost guarantee that there's going to be some sort of conspiracy theory in there.

I question a "former CIA agent speaks about New World Order". According to the conspiracy theory, the NWOcontrols every aspect of American politics. That would include bureaucracies like the CIA. So how was a CIA agent able to speak out against the NWO on YouTube? Furthermore, why is the video still there? Lastly, wouldn't the CIA have some sort of repercussion considering that the CIA wouldn't want an agent's identity to be compromised? Hell even intel from the CIA would fall in the same category.

Quote from Newbie


7. this is weird: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dev8d8IEcig), a Donald Trump commerical, after you watch it, doesn't the commercial seem really weird. the sheep are on tower-like pedestals and the 2 visible sheep are "9" and "11". now anyone who's been to a hotel knows that the odd numbers and even numbers are on seperate sides, but I don't get it, why "9" and "11" (hmm, 9/11). and there are "sheep" in the commercial too. If this is supposed to be a satirical/humorous commercial then I guess I'm just not understanding it but it's really weird.

Probably some bs about how the rest of the world is just blind sheeple and don't think for themselves. In other words, a self ego booster for conspiracy theorists.

Quote from Newbie


8. okay last one: you can go on any conspiracy theory site (such as God Like Productions) and find some people who claim to have been a part of the illuminati and now they're "exposing them", there's also this guy named "Donald Marshall" who's claiming he's been part of it (Google "Donald Marshall Illuminati" and his "story" is posted in various sites). Again I don't know what to think, are these people (Donald included) legit and telling the truth or are they just suffering from schizophrenia or some other delusional disorder and actually believe what they're saying even though it's not true.

I'm a high class CIA agent, head of the intelligence department. My responsibilities include sending black helicopters to those who expose us, editing the truth on the internet to keep the masses brainwashed, and am currently plotting to take down Alex Jones and David Icke. I've been planning this for years, but it went on the backburner due to staging 9/11, adding more and more fluoride in the drinking water, having the "lone gunman" shoot the theater in Colorado, and other such giant events. Mohammed's murder? Staged.

See how easy it is for someone to claim this?

@emcada thanks, that's helping, I'd also love to hear anyone else's personal takes on these things.

and yeah the bridge of that song isn't exactly next-level lyric writing :P, agreed, but Ab-soul can rhyme though. And i have researched the actual Illuminati, it makes sense that people (particularly Christians) think they're evil, the Catholic Church back in the 18th Century was likely frantic to stay in power/didn't like anyone opposing them and probably spread lies about the group before/after they disbanded. It amazes me why so many conspiracy theorists think the $1 bill is filled with masonic symbolism. the eye in the triangle, that represents God watching, not the devil, and why a triangle? (um duh...the holy trinity, I'm not even Christian and I figured that out), and plenty other things about the bill considered "evil", that are easy to explain, I'm Canadian and I could figure the $1 bill out. smh...

gonna take awhile to get all this out of my head and go back to disbelieving these theories like I used to, but lately everytime I see so-called "occult" symbolism and whatnot on tv, music videos, etc... I get a rush in my stomach, not the good kind of "rush", it still scares me, but hey, probably just a different reason for putting the symbol on there, plus it's a great marketing scheme. anyone got tips on not getting so scared when I see those symbols?

I'm eager to hear what everyone else thinks about the things I've posted, emcada thanks for your input, hopefully I can sort this all out permanently and not keep relapsing like I have the past 8 months of knowing about this theory

Also there is a link on this site but together about the Freemasons by a Mason. It goes into great detail about myths made about them like the Illuminati. I find the artical about the Leo Taxil haox vary intresting.

hmm, speaking of masonicinfo.com.. Joe was that the site you were referring too? it is really great and detailed, especially on myths about the Masons and hoaxes like the Taxil Hoax, the site also exposes various people who claim to have been in the Illuminati as fakes (like John Todd or Leo Zagami)

so this so called symbolism is really just a new kind of art, hmm that's comforting to know, lol i don't really understand the artistic value but just because you don't understand something doesn't automatically make it evil eh? that seems to be how most conspiracy theorists do their thinking, if you can't understand it, then it MUST be evil :O!

I'll keep posting a few things on here, because I think it'll be a good lesson for anyone who's trying to be more of a skeptic:

a few youtube users who believe these theories say they've "recieved a letter to join the Illuminati", this supposed letter is adding to their belief in these theories. I noticed 3 users who claim they recieved letters to join, one of them was skeptic about it and made a video asking what we think, fraud or real, while the other 2 saw it as "irrefutable proof" that the Illuminati exists.
first thing that came to mind back when I saw these, A. anyone can make a letter asking you to join the "Illuminati", that doesn't mean it's real just because you recieved some letter by mail or by e-mail.
B. Why would they reach out to Youtubers to join them?
C. the 2 users who believed it are going around Youtube, telling people to message them if they want to see the letter for themselves. so how come they aren't dead yet, surely the "Illuminati" doesn't want 2 conspiracy theorists on Youtube showing everyone the letter they sent asking them to join

anyone else got additional reasons as to why these letters/any letter asking you to "join the Illuminati" is obviously fraud/scam?

I also read this awhile ago: (http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html)

not entirely sure how this ^ relates to the Illuminati but after I read like a month and a half ago that was the first initial thought that came to mind. I recently remembered this and I'm thinking it's a fraud but haven't really come up with many reasons as to why this could be a fraud letter. Any ideas on that?

oh yeah, and one of the things I first posted, Youtube user "Forerunner777", how do you determine that his channel is a fraud and as for his bio "(Former NYC screen, music video and song writer, who ran with the elite of the entertainment industry, tells how Demon Possession, gave him the talent to write the songs and movie scripts for the HipHop scene. Here why and how he came out to start an organization called Forerunner Choronicles, which Exposes the dark parts of the entertainment industry)"
How to determine that his bio is fraud? or at least that the parts about "running with the elite" and "demon possession giving him talent" are just outright exaggerations/lies?

forerunner's bio is kinda similar to Vigilant Citizen's bio, not entirely, but somewhat, VC's bio too, I'd love some tips on not believing these bios so easily/being able to recognize which parts of a bio like this is likely lies or exaggerations and which parts are more likely

thoughts on these points everyone?

not just that site, you can google the title and find it on many more sites. and yup I've done research on the Illuminati (the actual Illuminati of the 18th Century, from more credible websites)

im just curious what you guys think about what I most recently posted, hopefully being able to debunk like you guys do will improve my skepticism and such

"not just that site, you can google the title and find it on many more sites. and yup I've done research on the Illuminati (the actual Illuminati of the 18th Century, from more credible websites)"

I'd prefer if you talk a little bit more about credible websites that you have went too that talk about the Illuminati as well as include a reference list with a possible explanation of what the site is about (like I did above).

If we're going to have a discussion on the Illuminati (I am not a expert on such a group), then it's nice to know what information you do know about them as well as references you got the majority of your information from. From there we can evaluate your perspective on the Illuminati based on these sites and put down our thoughts on the matter. These rapper sites you give above are not going to cut it from a credibility standpoint, if this is where you base the majority of your information on about the Illuminati that is a problem onto itself. There is nothing to debunk on a bunch of rappers rapping about the Illuminati and making claims about the Illuminati. When rappers learn to cite there sources when they make claims or show some evidence/facts in there rapping songs about the Illuminati from credible sources that's when I will look more into these rapping Illuminati people, until then there is nothing to debunk.

"im just curious what you guys think about what I most recently posted, hopefully being able to debunk like you guys do will improve my skepticism and such"

I pretty much said everything I knew about the Illuminati. I may be looking more into this subject when I have free time.

"@2012CT admittedly, I did just choose the first site that came up instead of looking at different sites/trying to find credible sources. I didn't really pay attention to that though because the site I link to doesn't really have much to do with the actual document/letter. But thank you for the advice"

Ok, above I have suggested some ways too look into the Illuminati topic but also I have a site that may be able to help you out with your logic and reasoning skills when evaluating sources for there credibility.

How to Determine If A Controversial Statement Is Scientifically True (thanks to Tony on SP FB)
http://lifehacker.com/5919830/how-to-determine-if-a-controversial-statement-is-scientifically-true

You Should Downvote Contrarian Anecdotes
http://thobbs.github.com/blog/2012/06/17/you-should-downvote-anecdotes/

"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless." - Alan Moore

I see more understanding and beauty in the notion that the events and structures of society come about though sporadic means the same way I do with evolution and biology. When you start piecing things in some grand order, like creationism or Illuminati conspiracies, this not only does meaning fall apart but the beauty is lost as well. Outside the gates of those views of this seems like a far more unlikely scenario unless it's seen without the ideological blinders.

The http://www.illuminati-news.com website is not credible. The guy who does the website is into global elties and fighting against them as well as owns several other websites related to CT information.


I read through the article which the article on the website itself is a copy/paste from a ATS website on a individual by the name of Hidden-hand who posted there claiming to be a member of the Illuminati . ATS website contains a lot of CT information and it's definitely not a credible source.

Article is at
http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html
Where this article copied it's information from.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread402958/pg01

A brief abstract of the article to save people from reading it is basically some person by the name of hidden-hand who in October 18, 2008 posted and made claims on the ATS site that he's from the Illuminati and is willing to talk to the "regular humans" and give away secrets but only for a brief period of time and he won't give away anything so he has to be vague in his answers. Therefore we get some dude who does not put down any credible sources when speaking about the group he's apart of.

The dude by the name of Hidden-Hand talks about logos being the god of this galaxy but claims there are many logos throughout other places. Long story short he goes into great amount of new age theology, he also makes claims that some Illuminati are reptilians but he is in fact not a reptilian but a alien human hybrid. I find this hidden-hand person to be a great writer, as well as well versed in new age philosophy.

A lot of Hidden-hands stuff I threw in the waste bin but some of it such as making claims by giving specific years I'll present here.

First claim he says "San Francisco and Damascus, will be uninhabitable by the end of 2010"

San Francisco and Damascus, will be uninhabitable by the end of 2010, possibly even sooner. Again, it depends upon certain 'forces' at play, and which timelines are activated. Humanity, though utterly unconscious of the fact, has a significant part to play in this. You (as a collective consciousness of the planet) are choosing the Negative Polarization by default, by the quality of your thoughts and actions. Thought is creative energy, focused. You get exactly what you put out.

Second claim he talks about great environmental disasters coming in years to come.

There will be dramatic changes to your climate and weather conditions over the next few years, as the time of the Great Harvest approaches. You will see windspeeds surpassing 300 miles per hour at times. There will be raging tsunamis and widespread devastation; and a solar emission in late 2009 early 2010 that will cause major melting of the ice caps, and subsequent drastic rise in sea levels, leaving many (international) metropolitan areas underwater.

Written and posted on ATS site by Hidden-Hand on October 19, 2008. Hidden-hand begins to pretend predict the finical collapse. By this time in America the financial economy has already been hit hard and it didn't take some Illuminati guy on a internet forum to tell people. Also predicts we will have new currency by 2009.

The Stock Markets will soon complete their controlled demolition. After an initial 'appearance' that the 'bail outs' and 'rescue packages' have steadied the ship, there will be new record lows by the end of the month.

Our Financial Institutions will later call in all loans. There will be many bankruptcies and foreclosures.

The only way John McCain will become the next US President, will be if something "happens" to Barack Obama before the election. If there even is an election. If a certain faction get their way, there will not be. Remember, behind the scenes, there is only One Party. Our Party. 'Democracy' is an illusion which is created to uphold your slavery. Whichever side 'wins'; the Family wins. There are many possibilities and alternative 'scripts'. All of them lead toward the ultimate implementation of the overall blueprint of our Creator.

Unless any unforeseen disruptions delay it's announcement, there will be a new currency by the end of 2008 / early 2009, along with a new Union of nations. January has been spoken of in some circles, as the latest, though there are plans underway which could even bring this to fruition much earlier than initially hoped for. It depends upon the results of other upcoming events as to how this will play out. I am not high enough up the Hierarchy to know the intimate details of the dates and times that far in advance. There is a 'tree system' in which such knowledge is passed down, as and when it becomes 'need to know'. I would be considered to be a "Regional" leader. Above me, are National and International.

Then in a conversation farther down he makes a claim that he does not make claims when in fact he just did a few threads up. He did give years and was specifics and I could be wrong but I don't see any of that information happening as he said it would in 2009 or 2010. It's 2012 and still nothing.

2) You will not be receiving any times or dates from me. I am not here to "Prove" anything, and I have no need to do so. Your disbelief is of no consequence to me. Only to you.

I am here to diligently discharge the duty given to me, of delivering a message. And I will complete that duty regardless of you feelings about it.

When Hidden-hand dude talks about people who debunk notions such as himself he showed his true colors. It made me smile when I read over his hatred for skeptical individuals labeling things conspiracy theories and to me this individual showed me what his cards are and what he's all about which is conspiracy theories at his core. When people say such as he said " "conspiracy theories" it's meant to be silencing. Just enough of a "shell" to help those who really don't want the Truth to be True", it's pretty obvious.

ATS: That your repeating debunked conspiracy theory shows your just here to hoax.

HH: That word "debunked" always brings me a hearty laugh. Some people seem to think that throwing the word "debunked" around means that it really has been. The vast majority of "debunking" has more holes in it that the "conspiracy theories" it's meant to be silencing. Just enough of a "shell" to help those who really don't want the Truth to be True, to carry on believing that it's not, so they can replace their heads back into the sand for a while longer.

Anyway, I must press on with questions from those with open minds, I leave you with my regards, keep up your good work.

It made me laugh when Hidden-Hand gave a reason why he went to ATS as he said ATS contains the most intelligent individuals on any website. Keep in mind ATS is the same site where people like Jared lee Loughner post at.

Well, if you're game for an "assignment", or maybe someone else if you haven't the time, I would be happy for someone to collate this topic (minus the "interruptions") so that the message appears with just the actual flow of questions and answers, and post it there in one piece, if you so desire. As I mentioned before, I chose ATS as I was reliably informed that it is one of the forums with a higher rate of intelligence and reasoning amongst it's members. On the whole, from my experience here, I would tend to agree."

To end this I'd like to say when this hidden-hand character posted this stuff on ATS on October 18, 2008. Before the post around September 2008, the finical crisis had occurred and a lot of people were looking for some type of answers. This Hidden-Hand Illuminati guy had about as much answers about the finical crisis of the time as anybody else did. It might be that this posts on ATS became popular or more credible to CT's because this was posted by someone claiming to be the Illuminati and they had made a prediction about the financial situation that was kind of correct but was foreseeable for the future by anybody. Which maybe a possibility as to why everybody references back to this topic on ATS created by the Illuminati guy.

I have to also note that being a skeptic I'm subjected to material that is really similar to something like this. If we can remember back to good old John Titor the time travel this smells of that all over if you don't know anything about John Titor I'll provide some information. In my opinion what hidden-hand is doing has already been done I'd call what Hidden-hand is doing is the John Titor phenomenon. John Titor like Hidden-hand both posted on a website and gave some details out at which they had only a limited amount of time before they had to go, as Titor had to go to his time line of 2036, Hidden-hand no ATS site had to do this out of duty but was only allowed to talk for a certain length of time.


http://www.johntitor.com/

In November of 2000, a man named John Titor posted on an Internet forum claiming to be a time traveller from the year 2036. All of his posts are archived on the Internet.

THE TIME TRAVEL TALE OF JOHN TITOR

Although there is debate over the exact date it started, on November 02, 2000, a person calling themselves Timetravel_0, and later John Titor, started posting on a public forum that he was a time traveler from the year 2036.

One of the first things he did was post pictures of his time machine and its operations manual. As the weeks went by, more and more people began questioning him about why he was here, the physics of time travel and his thoughts about our time. He also posted on other forums including the now non-existent Art Bell site. In his posts John Titor entertained, angered, frightened and even belittled those who engaged him in conversation.

On March 21, 2001, John Titor told us he would be leaving our and returning to 2036. After that, he was never heard from again. Speculation and investigation about who John Titor was and why he was online continues to this day.

Although it may be easy to dismiss all this as science fiction, most people who read his posts agree that there is something very haunting about John Titor and what he said. In addition, and open to more debate, he also made a series of predictions and comments that eerily seem to be coming true.

Unfortunately, I never spoke directly to John Titor but there are many out there who have and continue to wonder about their experience. As you get deeper and deeper into the story, you will find his posts, links to other sites about him, downloads and speculative information attributed to him after he left. I have taken the posts and organized them by date and subject. My editorial work is copyrighted but the unedited posts and the people who experienced it are in the public domain can be found on other sites listed inside.

As you read, please try to keep two things in mind:

1. John appeared to answer nearly every question that was asked of him over the 4-month period he was online. Because of that, many people neglected to read the previous posts and asked similar or exact questions he had already answered. It may offer a glimpse of what a time traveler goes through when having the same conversation again and again.

2. These posts were written before 911, the Discovery accident and the second gulf war. Many people believe John may have known of these events and dropped clues without actually referring to them. It's also widely agreed that he made several predictions about future physics discoveries that have materialized as he stated.

I have included a guest book where you may leave your comments. I will endeavor to respond to any questions you have based on my work.

I hope you enjoy your journey with John Titor.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


I think I have clearly debunked this Illuminati news site, the ATS post, just on the fact of its lack of credibility let alone the other information I provided. To me Hidden-Hand is clearly doing the John Titor phenomenon upon a site that contains people who the majority are not skeptically minded.

Quote from Newbie

Nice job! And i never believed this Hidden Hand story I just wanted to see how you guys handled debunking. I knew this was bs as soon as i saw the failed san francisco and damascus prediction

The Hidden-hand character doesn't even talk about the 18th century Illuminati, nor do any of Hidden-Hands customs remotely sound like something the 18th century Illuminati would do.

If you are bored read up on John Titor. Titor Phenomenon is a good read.
http://www.johntitor.com/


Coast to Coast had a interview with a person who knows a lot about John Titor
Main Show Only - John Titor & Time Travel - Coast to Coast AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mzqMgDMdgM

Quote from Newbie

"Taking some persons word let alone a rappers word on something in this case the Illuminati is silly".

True, very true, I tell myself that when I have doubts, like "come on just because this person thinks/says this is true doesn't make it so" but I still get my doubts
Lupe Fiasco for example, I get suspicious when I observe some of his songs or actions. Not sure how long ago, but he was performing on David Letterman I think, and at one point in the song there's a bit of a pause, during that pause Lupe announces "No new world order" and continues on with the performance. I just found this really weird, and makes me think, does he believe in these conspiracy theories or what? Lupe's gotten pretty political with his music (take his album "LASERS" for example), songs like "Words I Never Said" gets me wondering, the lyrics to that song make me wonder is he just a big political activist or is he secretely speaking out against something he think is real (in this case, the Illuminati). The music video for "I'm Beamin" also has that one weird scene where he knocks the eye off the pyramid and laughs (watch the video for that song you'll know what I'm referring to). Again I keep telling myself not to just take a rapper's word on something especially something like this so quickly, but for some reason, it's hard for me not to. maybe I just have some form of OCD or another anxiety disorder, if I do I'm not aware of it

Yeah don't take anybodies let alone a rappers word on anything.

@Newbie I have to admit I don't take what rappers say about the Illuminati seriously. Unless they quote some credible sources or something I just can't take there word for it. I'll take a look at the information you have mentioned. I find John Titor to be more interesting and I know his stuff is baloney.

I was about to post some information previously within this topic just because a friend had recommended a site for me to checkout and maybe post up here. I halted on posting up the site mainly because I wanted to check it out and see what there about. The site/s I post up have information on becoming a member of the Illuminati and I highly doubt there credible sites (nor do I endorse these sites) however I'll post them up and maybe have a discussion about them maybe.

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Someone I know pointed out this website www.illuminatiorder.org/, they specifically told me to check it out on wayback as it's down by now. Apparently it was only up for a few months in 2002. It's one of a few websites I've seen where people can apply to become a member of the Illuminati. As it has a members section to join and from that I google the domain and found two other sites with Illuminati members section although both of the other sites do not have much information on them.

http://tinyurl.com/9hagrxq (if you click the link give it a few seconds to redirect to page, for some reason it's slow)


Found by googling http://www.illuminatiorder.org/
http://illuminati-order.com/

Found by googling http://www.illuminatiorder.org/
http://www.illuminati-order.org/

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I found this site www.illuminatiorder.org to be interesting just because it has a lot of information on. Website looks nice, has a forum where people can join which is also a application process as well. Although I do not believe this is the real Illuminati, it seems to maybe be a site that has taken on the name of the Illuminati.

On a website someone did a whois on the illuminatiorder.org domain and found

http://tinyurl.com/99cbg6a

Domain Name: ILLUMINATIORDER.ORG
Registered Through....: www.1cheapdomains.com
Created on............: 23/11/2001 16:41:25
Expires on............: 23/11/2006 00:36:08
Record last updated on: 23/11/2001 16:41:25
Owner, Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
Allah Satan's Bitch (ID00005207)
666 Lord Satan Bulevard
Vatican, Vatican 456854 IT
Phone: 66677777
Email: tzion@mail.com

I suspect it maybe someone wanting to mess with people. The site was nicely designed for a website made in 2002 and they may of had a intent to form a group called Illuminati but I doubt it has anything to do with 18th century Illuminati or the CT relation of the Illuminati. The other two sites are a throw back to the late 90's style website designs, they don't look as fancy.

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Credible resources on the Bavarian Illuminati:
Terry Melanson's websites:
http://www.bavarian-illuminati.com
http://www.conspiracyarchives.com

Marco di Luchetti's website:
http://illuminatiofbavaria.wordpress.com/

My own website:
http://www.bavarian-illuminati.com

Terry and Marco have been very supportive of my work, but compared to them, I'm a bloody beginner.

Scholarly essays:

10 Notable Members of the Illuminati, by Terry Melanson
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49602380/10-Notable-Members-of-the-Bavarian-Illuminati

The Bavarian Illuminati: Origins of its Ideology
http://illuminatiofbavaria.wordpress.com/article/the-illuminati-of-bavaria-origins-of-1vn6fdl0grm02-7/

Conspiracy in New England Politics: The Bavarian Illuminati, the Congregational Church, and the Election of 1800
http://www.umich.edu/~historyj/docs/2011-fall/pone.pdf

Books:
Perfectibilists, by Terry Melanson
Philo's Reply to Questions Concerning His Association with the Illuminati, Baron Adolph Knigge

Doctoral Dissertation:
Jesuits, Freemasons, Illuminati, and Jacobins : conspiracy theories, secret societies, and politics in late eighteenth-century Germany, by Steven Luckert