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Tags: peter joseph merola, zeitgeist, zeitard [ Add Tags ]

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anticultistPosted: Jan 28, 2013 - 09:57
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original
TZM's new and improved Global Forum is now open for registration.


http://thezeitgeistmovementforum.org/forum.php

Prepare for a shit stream of stupid to laugh at.
#1 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Evil ElvisPosted: Jan 29, 2013 - 04:51
(1)
 

STFU!

Level: 1
CS Original
They still exist? Wow, I thought all of those morons simply bought Ipads and joined the Occupy Movement.
#2 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Jan 29, 2013 - 11:23
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original
Fresh batch of fucktards with a sprinkling of the old lot to act superior among them.
#3 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 29, 2013 - 11:43
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
Quote from anticultist

Fresh batch of fucktards with a sprinkling of the old lot to act superior among them.


They still use that quiz before one can register?
#4 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Jan 29, 2013 - 11:47
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original
Not exactly sure, but they have a rule list pinned at the top of the forum.

Stating something along the lines of you have to of read all their material, support what they are trying to do, and believe their goals and agendas are correct etc...
#5 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
LLCohenPosted: Jan 30, 2013 - 13:37
(0)
 

Level: 0
I am an independent researcher with over thirty years experience, particularly with respect to current economic, social and political problems. My involvement in these subjects requires in itself a significant amount of detailed explanation, which I would be happy to go into at some other time.

There are however, issues which have recently arisen and need to be addressed immediately. The subject of The Zeitgeist Movement, The Venus Project and the concept of a Resource Based Economic Model in general have become a common talking points among many economists with the number set to grow.

I spent over five years as a member and activist of TZM, the last six months of which I decided to undertake a number of experimental exercises to determine the efficacy and viability of the movement as to whether or not it was capable of meeting its stated objectives as described in Zeitgeist Addendum and Zeitgeist Moving Forward.

As I stepped back and began to take a more analytical approach to understanding why the movement was making little progress in meeting its objectives, a decidedly different picture began to emerge.

My goal at this point was to help the movement become more effective in achieving its objectives and to develop ways to increase the sustainability of the product of those objectives. I identified two key obstacles which I offered as a critique and asked for feedback. Simple enough.

My first question was addressed to both members and non-members and was designed to determine what they saw as the greatest strengths and weaknesses of the Zeitgeist Movement UK. With specific reference to the weaknesses, I asked how these could be resolved. This met with little to no response. I interpreted this lack of response (naturally) as a form of apathy. So I inadvertently discovered a weakness.

I noticed on the TZM UK FaceBook page common phrases, quotes and patterns of behaviour which I recognised from personal examinations of zealous religious groups. I discussed this as a concern years before and suggested at the time that the movement seemed to have adopted some rather disturbing religious overtones. I then offered a perfectly valid criticism which was that the members of the movement had adopted all the features of a cult mindset, which lead me to asking the most significant question of all. This is what I offered first of all, purely as a concern:

In the interests of presenting a fair and balanced debate as to whether or not The Zeitgeist Movement is capable of delivering on its stated objectives in its current form, I have sought out this insightful short clip for some meaningful talking points. Individually and for your own interests it would serve you well to give it some consideration.


A short video presentation by: Dr. Robert, J Lifton on thought reform and The Zeitgeist Movement, from the point of view that it shares many of the same features of a cult. Again the results are as follows.

Please excuse the typo's.

The interesting point (and paradoxical if you will) is that, if this post is ignored it validates the point Dr Robert J Lifton is making here.

There is no question of the relevance of this item

It cannot be denied that there are (to say the least) some striking similarities between The Zeitgeist Movement and the dreaded C word. One could even call it self evident.

I have transcripts of what followed for further discussion. The conclusion is that The Zeitgeist Movement has become a self realizing cult and with hindsight, that outcome was inevitable.
#6 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Jan 30, 2013 - 15:25
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original
Funny that you have independently arrived at this conclusion, I also arrived at this conclusion as did a few other ex members a while ago, and we in fact mentioned it and proposed it at the group on their own forums, other forums and on various other blogs. Indeed showing the thought reform points and lectures Lifton had done on the topic. Of course this was met with derision from their members, even with suggestions we did not understand the groups ideology or core materials and that we should research and understand it more.

Interestingly though some of us were actually members who were moderators/admin and researchers for the group so were totally versed in the materials.

In fact the very first post I made regarding the zeitgeist movement on my own blog discussed this topic, and in fact it was covered later when some videos appeared on you tube discussing it.

Here is a post back in 2010 I made on my blog

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/so-you-dont-think-tvp-and-tzm-are-a-cult/
#7 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2013 - 23:32
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
My stance on internet cults as of now is there isn't enough academic work geared towards studying the possibility of cults being able to exists purely on the internet. Therefore for me it's hard to say Destinian, TZM or other internet based groups can be called a cult. However I do think TVP/TZM as more of a religion/faith-based group at which it's ideology is based around a RBE or RBEM.

I suppose in a way right now there are two religious denomination within a resource based economy belief system. One denomination affiliates itself with TVP and believes in a resource based economy, the other denomination is TZM and believes in a modified version of a TVP RBE called a Resource Based Economic Model.

My longer explanation can be located on a topic I made on SP.
http://other.skepticproject.com/forum/5360/learning-more-about-internet-based-cults/#0

A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination

"RBE vs RBEM: Out of a general respect to TVP's work with what they consider to be the proprietary notion of a "Resource-Based Economy" [RBE] and its definition, some in The Movement prefer to adapt to the term "Resource-Based Economic Model" [RBEM] to separate from the Fresco-specific association/definition and allow for a more general flexible understanding of the Train of Thought."
http://chapters.thezeitgeistmovement.com/or/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=89

(5) What are some of the central characteristics of the solution proposed (RBEM)?
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/faq#faq5




I'd also throw in that the most active and dogmatic part within TVP/TZM is within the linguistic team. I would also throw down Gman who is the leader of the linguistic group is more of dogmatic lieutenant/devout worshiper of TVP, TZM and RBE/RBEM (I talk to the guy not a bad guy but very dogmatic). you can often here them saying they need to spread awareness or spread the word. The relatively small Linguistic team constantly looks and translates material into different languages. I don't think it's to far fetch that there doing some form of self brain washing by doing this not to complicated but very repetitious work.

More on the linguistic team
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5374/is-the-zeitgeist-movement-a-cult-part-2/#reply-9094d728


@LLCohen "My first question was addressed to both members and non-members and was designed to determine what they saw as the greatest strengths and weaknesses of the Zeitgeist Movement UK. With specific reference to the weaknesses, I asked how these could be resolved. This met with little to no response. I interpreted this lack of response (naturally) as a form of apathy. So I inadvertently discovered a weakness."

This has been done before check out this letter to Peter.
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/384/letter-to-peter-merola/#post-6612
Peter's response
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/384/letter-to-peter-merola/#post-6706


The subject of The Zeitgeist Movement, The Venus Project and the concept of a Resource Based Economic Model in general have become a common talking points among many economists with the number set to grow.


@LLCohen Really? I'd like to know there thoughts as well. TVP and TZM typical MO is to ignore people with credentials unless there semi mainstream or unless they support there cause.

@LLCohen what's your stance on a resource based economy or a resource based economic model?
#8 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
LLCohenPosted: Jan 31, 2013 - 08:44
(0)
 

Level: 0
I'm sorry,I don't really have a position or stance on a resource based economic model, in as much that all economic models deal with resources. My understanding is that both TZM and TVP simply seek (by the application of science and technology) to remove the monetary system form the process. I have no issue with that either, no more than I have an issue with the development of agriculture, the replacement of candles and gas light with electric, and horse and cart for cars. These, from our perspective are natural disruptive technologies which we now understand and have learned to adjust. Although, it does seem quite apparent from my experience and observations that the majority of the "adult" population need to work. Largely because the work ethic is so deeply rooted into their psyche. Too much free time in a society ill-prepared for it could present dire consequence.

I suspect that the monetary based economy will go the same way and will in all likelihood, be naturally replaced by more effective and efficient systems. I think anyone's view on that right now is largely irrelevant, including my own. As a species, we may not survive long enough to reach that point anyway, rendering all debate on the subject somewhat moot. In fact that window of opportunity may have already closed.

My first concern is with this slacked jawed, ill-informed, copy and paste wisdom associated within the entire structure and membership of the movements themselves. Those who are fortunate enough to have the education and/or wherewithal can simply walk away from the movements. However, those less educated are susceptible to become victimized by, what is in my view a mindless cult. A concern to everyone I would suggest is that The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project do present a danger and are not subject to any form of accountability. How people are treated in their forums is no less than systemic and ruthless bullying of people they know nothing, at all about. I have, described "their" behavior on "their" forums as sociopathic, deferring all responsibility, as they do to the movement.

So in answer to your question, under the right conditions a (let's say, to quote Peter Joseph) Natural Law Economy will emerge of its own accord, determined by a whole range of factors and considerations.
None of these movements will have any affect on that process at all. And thank you for the question.

P.S. Would you please have the courtesy to overlook any typo's, or if you feel compelled to do so, point them out politely. Lets not have this descend into a TZM forum. Thank you.
#9 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jan 31, 2013 - 10:32
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original
Quote from LLCohen

Those who are fortunate enough to have the education and/or wherewithal can simply walk away from the movements. However, those less educated are susceptible to become victimized by, what is in my view a mindless cult.


That sounds plausible. My own disassociation with TZM was largely due to its lack of critical reflection, open discussion and realistic strategic objectives, weighed against my prospects elsewhere.

If this decision making process is at least somewhat common - and from the interaction with other former TZM members/sympathizers I'd suspect that it is - we'd see the kind of shift you're describing, leaving TZM over time with the kinds of people who don't mind TZM/TVP's particularly cult-ish aspects.
#10 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 31, 2013 - 14:30
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
My first concern is with this slacked jawed, ill-informed, copy and paste wisdom associated within the entire structure and membership of the movements themselves. Those who are fortunate enough to have the education and/or wherewithal can simply walk away from the movements.


I forgot to say something about this. I think being a skeptic allows a person protection (being on the offense and defense) against being aware of such problematic groups/cults and how to handle oneself against such affairs. When being a skeptic and identifying such problematic groups you don't really need a cult deprogrammar, cult exist councilor, or anything else. Individuals who are skeptics are fully aware/understand what's going on and a skeptic more than likely will not try to rationalize away a problem with the structure (cognitive dissonance). Being a real skeptic may eventually lead a person away from such fringe groups and to more practical groups/applications.

The best things for individuals within these groups in my opinion is to incorporate critical thinking skills, as well as reality in there ideology or otherwise being a real skeptic. Of course there will be individuals who claim there skeptics yet are obviously flawed in there critical thinking skills therefore are not really skeptics because of cognitive dissonance among other things. Being a skeptic also means you can recognize people who claim to be skeptics but are not really remotely skeptical.

I'm just a bit surprised for instance that none of these cult deprogrammars or exit councilors (at that any councilor or mental health establishment) attempts to apply and teach forms of skepticism to there patients who actually need it (I could be wrong though). These patients do not have a healthy or sophisticated mechanism currently for interpreting the world and actions that occur around them. This maybe a possible reason why these types of people are more likely recidivate back into fringe belief systems of some kind.
#11 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Evil ElvisPosted: Feb 05, 2013 - 01:59
(0)
 

STFU!

Level: 1
CS Original
@ LLCohen - it took you 5 years to realize the issues that are clear to every first year student of economics. Weakness? Everything about TZM and RBE screams weakness. Combination of communism and fascism will never achieve what Fresco dreams about all his life, Merola and similar attention whores can spend their days readind Das Kapital all they want but they will still fail to grasp anything of relevance.

THAT is why TZM and RBE don't matter, you cannot make assumptions and act on them if your main premise is wrong and you're an imbecile who lacks any real education. This is not aimed at you.
#12 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Feb 07, 2013 - 02:48
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
Quote from LLCohen

The conclusion is that The Zeitgeist Movement has become a self realizing cult and with hindsight, that outcome was inevitable.


I wouldn't go far as to say they are an abusive cult like Scientology, DPRK, People's Temple...etc. However they do use a lot of the methods cults use. Many of the Lifton 8 criteria, Hassan's BITE Model, deceptive recruiting, and a rigid pyramid style structure.
#13 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Feb 07, 2013 - 02:55
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
Quote from Evil Elvis

@ LLCohen - it took you 5 years to realize the issues that are clear to every first year student of economics.


To be fair this is 99.9% of people's responces when confronted with any kind of economic material.
#14 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Evil ElvisPosted: Feb 11, 2013 - 06:27
(2)
 

STFU!

Level: 1
CS Original
True. Cool, I am no longer 1%, I am not 0.1%, how is that for elitist scum ;-)

I fully understand why Merola, fresco, Icke and similar guys attract people in Guevara tshirts, college dropout and others who just fail at life but wish to change the world. I really do, I just don't like any of them, uneducated radicals just piss me off.
#15 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Feb 11, 2013 - 22:21
(2)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
@Evil Elvis I'd agree with that. There whole scheme now instead of promoting collapse porn there trying to scare people with planned obsolescence. Which my thoughts on that are in short that once they have a understanding (I have a small understanding) of the free market economy; They understand that to bank on planned obsolesce in the way they advertise it to come, which they promote it as coming fast and furious is not the way change happens in a free market economy. The freemarket economy is too complicated to just bank on one thing as to destroy it and to bank on just one thing being planned obsolesce out of many other things going wrong is very ignorant and narrow minded (irony that I call them narrow minded, they often call free market supporters narrow minded).

I can respect a person whose lived life, had experience, and got screwed over and now is in TVP/TZM but the majority of these people within TVP/TZM have not tried life and got a education, worked hard, or anything. These people just want to do less and expect more. TVP/TZM as much as they are a religion based around resource based economy or resource based economic model, they are also a group of complainers, who attract the conspiratorial sections of today's society from 9/11 twoofers to medical woo people. Maybe I'd have respect for a individual whose actually tried to better themsevles and I mean TRIED in a honest attempt and they can't seem to get by; I've personally come across a few in my time however I have zero respect or sympathy for individuals who do NOT give a HONEST attempt at life such as what makes up the majority within TVP/TZM.

When I was younger I was one of those fellows who was on his own and did not have a penny to my name. I made it out but again I can understand people who have actually TRIED in a HONEST attempt and for some reason can't seem to make it, sometimes people just get LUCKY and make it deserving or not so deserving they make it some how (some even thank god for making it). However I don't believe in luck, in the long run if a person wants to advance there position in life definitely do not rely on being lucky (I'm not a lucky person), and I do not thank god for the things I accomplished (although I am spiritual my accomplishments are of my own). It takes hardwork/dedication along with blood, sweat, and tears, not luck to get to where a person wants to go.

People often think life is unfair and I have to agree with them life is very unfair. If a person thinks life should somehow be fair then there living in a fantasy world. There definitely not living life if there feeling sorry for themselves bemoaning america or the world. Come to a realization that life is unfair, but that doesn't mean life stops because it's unfair for them , they have to work hard to achieve things for themsevles but realize that others who achieve the same success or better simply may not have to work as hard as others because there a legacy or something else. Life is unfair like that but if a individual works hard they can make it.

I'm not here to give a motivational talk I'm here to talk about reality and even if your in your RBE or RBEM life will be unfair it's always that way trust me it never stops NOT being UNFAIR that is the reality of things. Again bemoaning about how life is unfair will not cut it, life will always be unfair, it's up to the person as to what they do about it. Complaining and not living life or barely living life (bottom feeders) will not cut it.
#16 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Feb 13, 2013 - 11:08
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
I used to be a Green. The more I learned about economics the more I drifted away.

At first glance you just see charts, numbers, econometric data, graphs, stock market recaps and you just want to kill yourself just to find something to do out of sheer boredom. When you learn the fundamentals, it gets fun. :3

BUT FUCK ALL THAT SHIT, ROBOTS WILL LET ME SIT AROUND ALL DAY AND TAKE BONG HITS AND WATCH FREE MOVIES!
#17 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Feb 15, 2013 - 02:18
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original
Quote from JimJesus

I used to be a Green. The more I learned about economics the more I drifted away.


Yeah, that's my experience w/ theoretical Marxism. Sure, some of the ideas are interesting and I wouldn't dismiss all of it, but once you compare them with the contemporary economic concepts, they do seem to have aged rather badly.

I'm still a sucker for heterodox economics, but I'd amplify Burgerguy's argument - not only is it futile to try fixing the world before fixing your own life, but you'll have to do far better than average to have any strategic maneuverability.
#18 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Feb 15, 2013 - 21:23
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
Someone pointed out a rant on youtube by Adam Carolla. I'm not much into Adam Carolla but I do agree with his rant on "Participation Trophy" generation. This is what TVP and TZM are basically.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Adam Carolla Rant About the Occupy Mentality.flv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQpXybTnGVg
Adam Carolla eviscerates the Occupy Movement. When I say he "nailed it" I don't even come close to the aplomb with which he decribes the "Participation Trophy" generation.
#19 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Evil ElvisPosted: Feb 18, 2013 - 03:18
(0)
 

STFU!

Level: 1
CS Original
Well this is it, TZM consists of kids who never lifted a finger in their life yet feel compelled to change the world, reality, way of thinking, understanding and blah, blah, blah. I usually like arrogant people but there has to be some substance behind the arrogance, otherwise it is just juvenile stubbornness.
#20 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Feb 18, 2013 - 12:33
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
>Ass douches.

Sounds about right.
#21 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Feb 21, 2013 - 01:57
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
OK, I've been watching this for a while now. I'm not seeing a shit stream to laugh at because no body is on it. TZM BOT floods videos of Merola and the other threads are anywhere from 2-4 posts long except the economists thread and thhat's only because they're just rephrasing the same dumb argument against the ECP. "THE ECONOMY IS COLLAPSING, SO IT'S CLEARLY WRONG"

TZM is so fucking dead, it's sad.
#22 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Feb 22, 2013 - 16:35
(1)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original
Quote from JimJesus

OK, I've been watching this for a while now. I'm not seeing a shit stream to laugh at because no body is on it. TZM BOT floods videos of Merola and the other threads are anywhere from 2-4 posts long except the economists thread and thhat's only because they're just rephrasing the same dumb argument against the ECP. "THE ECONOMY IS COLLAPSING, SO IT'S CLEARLY WRONG"

TZM is so fucking dead, it's sad.


Well that is good news, I am happy that this nonsense can't even pull in an audience. :)
#23 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]