Skeptic Project

Page 18, Debunking The Venus Project
David Z goes where few have gone before in examining the technotopian Venus Project and how its proponents fail to walk their ideological talk.

Debunking the Venus Project
By David Z

What you are reading here is not just any rebuttal written by some teenage schmuck who has just seen The Venus Project website. I am neither a disgruntled former Venus Project fanatic nor a troll, and I am certainly not a neoclassical economist who is outraged by what he has seen of the Venus Project proposals and out to debunk any nonconventional economic thought. What you will read here is a rebuttal from a former member of The Venus Project - and not just an ordinary one.

I have spoken for the Venus Project on Triple M radio and I have spoken against Venus Project critics on Skid Row Radio. I have given speeches and lectures to audiences of varying sizes and backgrounds about what the Venus Project proposes. I am a former devoted member of the Venus Project, and have met and spoken with its founder and Guru - Jacque Fresco. In 2010 I organized, with the help of a team of fellow supporters, a national tour for the Venus Project in Australia that spanned 4 major cities. I was responsible for organising the campaign, graphics and webpage development, as well as recruiting volunteers in Sydney and other 3 cities for the tour. The event campaign was a huge success that sold out all 1,500 tickets in all 4 cites with enough requests to repeat the event in Melbourne. I continued to advocate the Venus Project until about January this year, and I am well, shall I say, "qualified", if you will, to comment on its flaws.


A little background info

First - let me explain what the Venus Project is - in their own words:

"The Venus Project proposes a system called a Resource-Based Economy, in which automation and technology would be intelligently integrated into an overall holistic socioeconomic design where the primary function would be to maximize the quality of life rather than profits. This project also introduces a set of workable and practical values."

"This is in perfect accord with the spiritual aspects and ideals found in most religions throughout the world. What sets the Venus Project apart, however, is that it proposes to translate these ideals into a working reality."

Simply put, the Venus Project aims to bring about a peaceful moneyless society in which Spirit of the Times Magazine / November 2012 19 the scientific method of inquiry is applied to every aspect of life - including governance, economics, and culture. A moneyless society is deemed equitable in its facilitation of access to the world's resources, which are held to be the common heritage of all humanity. Technological automation is believed to be the best method for bringing about such a society because it facilitates a level of efficiency that reduces the material throughput of natural resources, whilst generating abundance for social stability. Cybernation is to be employed wherever possible for decision-making, with the assumption that automated technologies are not fallible in the way that humans are, thus avoiding the all-too human errors of the political system.

To achieve this, the Venus Project has a 3 stage plan. The first stage - to build their research centre - is complete. The second step is to release a major motion picture that would reveal how the Venus Project would work. The third and final stage includes building a test-city with a theme park attached. Initially the building of the theme park was slated as stage 4 in the plan, but just a few months ago this plan was merged with stage 3[1] - the test city. The initial plan to build a theme park after completing the construction of a test-city, and all the subsequent research, seemed somewhat odd as one would naturally expect the next stage to involve implementation of what has been learned. Keep this point in the back of your mind as implementation still does not feature in the plan, and a theme park is now merged into the test-city stage, blurring the
boundaries.

The Venus Project has been in existence for over 37 years. The project has produced large numbers of very attractive models and concepts of how the future may look, as well as drawings and much, much more media, including films, documentaries, audio-lectures, books etc. Some of these products are available free of charge, and many of these products can be bought in their online store; you can even buy your very own "I love TVP" coffee mug.


Relationship to the Zeitgeist Movement

The Venus Project was featured heavily in film-maker Peter Joseph's second and third documentary movies, Zeitgeist Addendum and Zeitgeist Moving Forward. The Zeitgeist Movement - an organisation founded by Peter Joseph following the success of Zeitgeist Addendum in 2008 and subsequent calls for a global people's movement - quickly allied with the Venus Project as the project's "activist arm". That union did not last long, to the detriment of the Zeitgeist Movement.

Soon after Joseph's third film Zeitgeist Moving Forward was released - in which there was a full 30 20 November 2012 / Spirit of the Times Magazine minute section dedicated to the Venus Project - Fresco's co-founder Roxanne Meadows announced their intention to terminate the project's affiliation with the Zeitgeist Movement, and that they were thankful for all the help that Zeitgeist Movement volunteers had provided to further their cause. This action placed the Zeitgeist Movement in limbo-land - the position of advocating an organization that they were no longer affiliated with was one irreconcilable for many volunteers, particularly as Peter Joseph's documentary films, heavily reliant on Venus Project material, were the mainstay of the Movement's educational materials. With Joseph's films freely available online via multiple sources there was no easy way of updating the material in order to avoid misunderstandings regarding the relationship between the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project.

Thus the Zeitgeist Movement and Peter Joseph were forced into the position of continuing to provide free publicity for an organization that had utilized their human resources for a period, gained a great deal of exposure via the success of the Movement, and even gathered donations via the Movement's supporters - then gone on to denounce both the Movement and its founder.


The approach of a one-man think-tank

The Venus Project has some great ideas overall, and it definitely enhanced my understanding of potential solutions to the world's issues. But, to put it hypothetically, if had the choice, I would not vote for the Venus Project based just on what they say - in the same way that I agree to a large extent with a lot what Barack Obama promised during his 2008 presidential campaign. Words alone are not sufficient evidence of intentions.

Unfortunately there is very little that the Venus Project does aside from talk. Their work solely revolves around producing materials that further the ideas of the Venus Project. You won't hear of the Venus Project partnering with any cause or organization that feeds or educates people, or that develops technologies that solve human problems. You won't see any of the own lifesaving solutions and designs they claim to have produced released under a not-for-profit licence such as Creative Commons so that they could be utilized by humanitarian organizations. The Venus Project have even tried to copyright the phrase Resource-Based Economy in an effort to prohibit the use of the phrase by anyone not fully aligned with the Project's understanding of it. Thankfully the attempt was unsuccessful, meaning that other organizations making use of the phrase are able to continue their work without having to re-brand their identity and amend all of their literature.

Jacque Fresco is the one-man think-tank for the Venus Project. The designs, drawings, and all of the proposed ideas are his alone, which renders him somewhat of a cyber-guru. Many other wise people have left an enduring legacy of their work, only some of whom have become famous because of it, such as Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, and Marie Curie, to throw out a few household names. What separates Fresco from this eminent group is that he does not cite scientific sources to support his conclusions. He has not produced a single study of his own to back up his futuristic ideas for humanity. Despite his claims that a full-scale survey of the Earth's resources is a vital first step toward a Resource-Based Economy Fresco has made no steps toward establishing a task-force for this purpose while rejecting already existing surveys data. Proposals for the development of technologies such as space-shuttle personal vehicles, buildings build from memory-metal, volcanic heat harnessed as a thermal-power plant, full automation of all labour, cybernated decision making, etc, have all remained unresearched, while new designs with the embedded assumption that these technologies are possible continue to be produced by the Project. It is simply hypocritical for anyone who advocates science as a way of life to fail to apply the scientific method of inquiry to their proposals.

After 37 years of existence a think-tank cited by many as "ingenious" may reasonably be expected to yield results a little more scientifically convincing that their output of a single unreferenced book, a novel, 2 feature movies and merchandise bearing the slogan "I love TVP". Fresco is undoubtedly wise, but it requires a significant imbalance of ego to claim how the future will look, and how it could or should work, without a shred of empirical evidence generated by the Project itself to support its own projections.


A theme-park for the hungry

The growth paradigm makes an unsettling appearance in much of Fresco's work, with designs for building cities in the sea or underwater, even in the sky - there are seemingly no limits to his imagination - being posited as ways to accommodate an ever-growing population. As lovely as these ideas may sound, a painful parallel is clearly drawn between the projection of the Venus Project and our current economic growth paradigm, unsustainable to its core. Fresco is bold in stating that the earth can sustain double the population we have at present - provided we manage our resources wisely and apply the most advanced technologies. Unfortunately studies conducted so far illustrate a far grimmer future for us. One of the more positive studies[2] predicts that the whole planet will have to shift to a strict vegetarian diet in order to sustain its projected population of 9 billion by 2050. While I am all for managing our resources wisely and applying our latest sustainable technology - who wouldn't be? - the first thing that should be done, from an ethical standpoint, is to find ways to feed and clothe the poorest, most is advantaged people in the world at present. Once a feasible plan to escape poverty is in existence, then we may be able to talk seriously about sustaining further population increases.

However, the Venus Project argues that the first step in bringing about a peaceful world free from suffering is the concept of a Resource-Based Economy, and that we should first concern ourselves with its design by supporting their 3 step plan (including the theme park, but absent plans for implementation). I'm sure the 10,000 children who die from starvation each day would be very happy to hear that the Venus Project has built them a theme park... while they are starving.

I am not saying that the Venus Project first needs to send food-aid packages to Sudan before they even consider some of their very ambitious ideas; my criticism is directed at their order of priorities. If the Venus Project were to behave empathically toward all the people of the world, with ethics-based priorities, somewhere in the plan would surely be included the engineering of (perhaps even cybernated) food production, water-filtration technologies, or the provision of basic healthcare and education. Not a theme park.


Technological Cornucopia

Whilst a member, I assumed that many of the Venus Project's ideas were possible because I had heard about them from a person who seemed so smart and so wise, to the extent that he is certainly a man before his time. This appeal to authority fallacy[4] is something that many Venus Project supporters suffer from, subtle in that no one screams and shouts when someone starts to question these things, yet once such a "challenge to authority" arises it is usually greeted with the response that "one day it will be technologically possible" to do X; which is, more or less, how Fresco himself responds to such questioning This leads us to a very important part of the Venus Project belief system - a Technological Cornucopia.

Technological Cornucopia is the belief that technology can provide for all our needs, and solve... well... everything from climate change to peak oil to infinitely substituting finite resources. The Technological Cornucopian concept is to the Venus Project as the virgin birth is to Christianity - you have to believe it, otherwise the whole thing just does not make sense. What Technological Cornucopians hold is a set of beliefs, not a scientific position.


Technotopian dreams

One very impressive idea for humankind is to build buildings with memory-metal, or shapememory alloy[5] - a compound material which could theoretically enable people to buy a new home from a supermarket in the form of a metal cubicle - say 10 cubic meters - and, once delivered, and a little bit of heat applies, the house would unpack from the cubicle into its full-size. Great idea. But memory-metal is made of titanium, and currently there is only 690 milion[6] tons of titanium left - vastly less than would be needed to serve the needs of a country, much less the whole planet. On top of that we currently use 6 million tons of titanium per year as it is - mainly for paints and electronic gadgets. Building houses out of titanium would be like building houses out of silver - a bizarrely extravagant waste of a rare nonrenewable resource.

Fresco envisions a world of abundance for everyone, and of everything. That sounds very lovely, and if it were possible I have no doubt that it would solve a lot of social problems. I'm quite sure that Fresco does not mean that the finite resources existing on our planet can be somehow made abundant, but he does speak of creating an abundance of resources for all human needs. What, then, are those needs? That's a hard question to answer, but as a former member I can say that the Venus Project does not think of human needs in the sense of Maslow's Pyramid, but in the context of current standards of living. Can the "needs" of our current standard of living be provided in abundance? In a word: no.

You can't talk about the notion of abundance without making reference to Jevons' paradox[6]. In a nutshell, Jevons observed that rate at which resources are consumed increases with the level of availability. This means that in making a process more efficient one makes its product more available, hence increasing the rate of material throughput and consumption. Increased production and efficiency bears the unfortunate side-effect of overuse - an abuse of the abundance generated - leading to more rapid depletion of finite resources, and depletion of renewable resources at a rate higher than the rate of renewal. This is an importanft point to consider, since in Fresco's visions for the future, everything will be supplied in abundance, and standards of living will be so much better that even the ultra-rich will be compelled to transition to a Resource-Based Economy. Thus, if you take into consideration Jevons' paradox, and the notion of abundance - Fresco's vision is stuck in a catch-22 scenario in which the notion of abundance, touted as humanity's saviour, may turn out to precipitate its more rapid demise.

Although living standards do not only concern matters of energy usage, it is beyond the scope of this article to give attention to the full range; therefore attention will be given to our population's energy needs, a major factor in standard of living - fundamental to the level of technological progress we have thus far attained. The Jevon's Paradox is not where the energy problem ends. 86.4% of the world's energy comes from nonrenewable resources, the three major sources being coal, oil and natural gas. All three of these resources entail difficult extraction processes which are prone to accidents that can lead to catastrophic damage, not to mention the production and usage that causes high levels of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. There are two reasons why we use them: Spirit of the Times Magazine / November 2012 23 they are cheap; and there is no easily available a l t e r n a t i v e for which we currently have the technology to power the planet with needs defined as they are at present. The Venus Project's solution to transition to 100% renewable energy is spot on - who in their right mind could disagree with this? There is a catch though - the Venus Project does not explain how we are supposed to transition to the use of 100% renewable energy sources - globally. With a lack of viable transition plan being a key reason why we are stuck with 86.4% non-renewables in the first place and the Venus Project failing to provide such a plan, there is a clear absence of evidence to support Fresco's assertions.

Organizations such as Beyond Zero Emissions do, however, attempt to present a 100% renewable transition plan, begging the question: why not simply partner up with Beyond Zero Emissions, pool skills and resources, and promote the concept in a similar manner. As the trajectory of our energy consumption indicates, our energy requirements double every 35 years[7] - rendering the transition to 100% renewables no easy feat. With this in mind it is difficult to have faith that any plan presented based on current needs projection will be sufficient.


Vague Venus

The Venus Project does not explain in detail how their proposals are supposed to actually work. You will never hear Fresco explain how waste management works in his Venus cities, or how healthcare is provided, or the basis on which absolutely scarce resources - such as rare earth metals - would be allocated. This is a point for which the Venus Project was criticized during their world lecture tour; Fresco was unable provide a straight answer on these matters. Instead Fresco encourages his audience to rely on a faith in a Technological Cornucopia. This pattern is mimicked to perfection by other Venus Project representatives, who are not engaged in research or design, but in promotion of the Project's assertions.


The new Dr Octopus?

Dr Octavius Octopus - a cartoon figure from Marvel comics - is presented as a sympathetic and caring scientist who, through his research, has found a way to create an abundance of fusion-based energy. His effort to harness the energy has spiralled out of control and, in effect, catastrophically failed, yet Octavius presses on though criminal means to rebuild and refinance his mad experiment.

As psychologist and engineer Jack Catran notes[8]:

"There are many futurists, "geniuses", and self-styled seers in our midst who, upon careful examination, turn out to be disappointingly commercial and exploitive."

Unfortunately The Venus Project is no different here.


The most recent example of their exploitation of their supporters was their pocketing of 113 thousand dollars of donations that were donated to further "step 2" of their flawless plan - the release of a major motion picture[9]. The money was originally intended for a professional scriptwriter for this movie, and donations were solicited under this pretext. Initially the target was set at one million dollars, and later reduced to $100,000. Despite going significantly above target in donations received, the Venus Project then announced that they now plan write the script themselves. To make a fair comparison, this is akin to donating $100,000 to a specific charity campaign, and then seeing the money diverted from that campaign - the reason you saw merit in making the donation in the first place - into an unknown and unannounced alternative venture.

Another one of the Venus Project's amazing financial stunts was the world tour which I organized, as an unpaid volunteer, the Australian leg. I was pleasantly surprised when the Venus Project insisted on lowering the ticket price to $30 from proposed $40, and the Australian tour sold out in the 4 major cities, netting upwards of $30,000 - after expenses, of which only 1 thousand was given to the Australian chapter in order to further promote the Venus Project. The Venus Project Tour took place in 18 countries, totalling more than 20 presentations[10]. I do not know the total net earnings, but soon after the world tour, the Venus Project decided to take their property in Venus, Florida - a property comprising 10 buildings in which only Jaque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows live; the property which doubles as their research centre - off the market. This action indicates that the Project was no longer in the financial trouble that they had been in prior to 2010, and, as my partial intention in hosting the Venus Project in Australia was to provide some assistance for the Project to continue, I saw this as a positive result.

The Venus Project encourages people to visit them in Venus, Florida, a tour in which anyone can participate - as long as they can afford the $200 fee, a somewhat ironically high fee for an organization that promotes a non-monetary economy. There is also the shop on their website through which the Project generates income - a standard for any major non-profit these days.

While everyone understands that you can't do much completely without money these days, there are organizations that do their best to minimize expenses in order to use money as little as possible - such as the Post Growth Institute's global Free Money Day event, held for only $100[11].

Of course any organisation will need to employ paid staff if they are expected to work full-time for the cause. The Venus Project, however, is in a much more advantageous position than most non-profits. They own their land which serves as a research centre, home, and generator of revenue. I am confident that, considering the money that they are making, the Venus Project can lower at least their cost of living to close to zero by ... well... walking their self-sustainable non-monetary talk.

For the money earned from the global lecture tour, or pocketed from the movie, it would be possible to power their whole research centre with solar panels, eliminating dependence on external power supplies and exiting the billing cycle. It would also be possible to grow at least some of their food the land they own, jazzing up the garden with high-tech gadgets that fit their proposals - perhaps functioning to test some of their theories. They could even afford to buy an electric car and reduce their level of emissions, never needing to rely on petrol from the pump again, powering all necessary journeys from their selfsufficient solar set-up[12]. By doing all of these things - well within the reach of their budget - the Venus Project could lower their expenses to a little casual supermarket shopping and land rates, leaving the rest for testing their theories.

If they were to do all of the above, wouldn't they be a step closer to their proposed moneyless solution? Wouldn't the Venus Project research centre then be more than just a place with fancy Jetsons domes, but also a working blueprint for how your life and home can be converted to the ideals of a Spirit of the Times Magazine / November 2012 25 Resource-Based Economy? Wouldn't it be the first community that functions as both a non-monetary microcosm of society and as a testing bed for their proposals? Wouldn't this appear to be a minimum level of commitment for anyone expecting to be taken seriously for their grand plans to fundamentally alter the way the word works? Likely many people - including ardent supporters - think that this is exactly how the Venus Project does function.


The Venus Project revised:

I must admit that when I met Roxanne Meadows I met an unusually shy and loving personality, someone who does truly care about people and believes in what she does. She and Jacque Fresco are very giving and very approachable people. In contrast to the impression that this article may give you, Fresco really does seem to believe in what he does. In his mind is not a scammer; he is an objective scientific mind, and would immediately counter the notion that his work revolves around a set of beliefs rather than scientifically-gleaned understandings. He sees himself as an aging man on a tireless and unending quest that just may result in ultimately saving our species.


However, if you were to ask me now what the Venus Project is, my answer would be as follows:

The Venus Project is a theme park that serves as a home for its founders, Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows. The theme park is their sole means of generating income, and has attracted a religious-like following and unquestioned funding from its followers due to the Project advocating nothing less than redesigning society. That proposed new society is based on rational and sensible ideas that have evolved to utopian proportions, rationalized by a belief in a Technological Cornucopia. Unwittingly and unconsciously, Jacque Fresco has become the monetary-motivated villain that he and his fans truly believe he advocates against.

There aren't any bad people in this world. Every villain and every hero do what they do because they think it is the right thing to do. And it's hard to tell one from the other if you base your judgement of an individual solely on what that person says. But rest well assured that a person does mean business if they embody the change they wish to see.


So what is your solution?

Venus Project fans, if presented with evidence against the Venus Project, or if they simply cannot argue against the point presented, may reply condescendingly with something to the effect of: "So what is your solution?" So let me answer exactly that question in brief:

Well, to the surprise of the reader I still advocate a Resource-Based Economy - with specific emphasis on the notion that the scientific method of inquiry should be at the forefront of decision-making. The difference for me now is that I actually want to apply the scientific method to my own thinking, instead of drawing conclusions and then aiming to validate them.


Useful Links
Previous TVP 4 stage plan -
http://web.archive.org/web/20110103001425/

Current TVP plan -
www.thevenusproject.com/thevenus-project-introduction/aims-proposals

Food and population growth study -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism

Appeal To Authority -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

Memory Metal Reference -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape-memory_alloy

World mineral Survey - http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/
pubs/commodity/titanium/mcs-2012-timin.pdf

Jevons Paradox -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Energy Consumption predictions study -
http://timeforchange.org/prediction-of-energy-consumption

TVP pockets donations -
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/zmglobal/2012/10/03/tzm-global-radio-3rd-oct-2012--host-bakari-pace

Electric motorcycles -
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

Quote from JimJesus

Links to the TVP and Mallette response?

I am a bit disturbed that Douglas M decided to patten his farming ideas and legalize it as a LLC company.

Not good news for my ears and i don't think that this company should be promoted though our mediums anymore.

what pp think?

hi.
I'm wouldnt be disturbed. This is the reality today and his LLC is his stepping stone for funding to make his work happen. Of course, TZM doesn't fund-raise for it, as we don't do for anything at this time.
p

Hello ive posted this over on zmchapters group and ill paste it here in case some people miss it. "In direct relation to the opening topic, to be honest i don't see a problem with it as long as TZM is not required to fund raise it or actively promote.his project as part of its identity/goal. Now, this is somewhat related to a series of other no so simple issues to communicate, and i want to make clear that what im about to write here, is just my personal point of view on the movement and how things could evolve.

I recognize the need to have more and consistent volunteer work in the movement something that having volunteers on the payroll could definitely help, however i can also understand the tendency that creating a institution can create space for corruption, self perpetuation and focus on monetary sustainability instead of actual progress.

Recently what ive been thinking about is extending the concept of movement projects funding to include volunteer time costs (not only materials). Such system would have to be very similar to what kickstarter is right now, where volunteers would come forward with their projects and seek funding from supporters that are unable to actively participate, such platform could also be of use to other type of projects that are not strictly educational (but still need to be somewhat related to it)

This way there is no struggle to control where the resources flow in, but instead let projects evolve based on their own merit.

Of course, there are many questions that need to be thought about first... But so far i think its one good option.

Even if we still take volunteer time out of the equation and focus only on materials it would still be a great help, as a big problem right now is volunteers having to donate both their own time and money to get something done.

The movement itself should not be more than a basic framework for education, spreading information and networking, the more we seek to evolve its identity the more restricted will become.

One of the reasons im active in the movement (aside from things making sense of course), is the fact that is not controlled by an institution or a political party but by a simple and necessary train of thought. Within this train of thought we could eventually define sub groups of how we achieve our goal, BUT to me what matters the most is that we still share the same direction. (Or else i could just have joined TVP activism)

I guess a good tip i could say is
"Share constructive criticism not hate"

Take Care"

There is really no way to create such a medium, outside the basic platform we already have. As of now, I don't even make my annual budget for the website admin/hosting costs with the shirts and am down about -$35,000+ on event days alone

Still - I do not want to create that level of complexity on the global level. Either people have time or they dont. The trick is the "autonomous" nature of it where people are self- generating in their work and they fund their own stuff as they see fit within a reasonable degree - within the bounds of the major projects [ zday; zfest; townhalls ]

Only exception is the GLOBAL REDESIGN INSTITUTE which will need more $ as it will be the flagship project of TZM in many ways.A kickstarter for this might help for the programmers.

In the end, to express "fundraising" as "okay" on a larger level will indeed lead to abuse and to a level of disrespect that TVP has now achieved since they announced they are not even using the $113,000 ( plus the other $70k+ or so they pulled from TZM's audience with our site donation link for them) for a script writer and pocketing it. TVP is doing nothing. M oney corrupts all institutions.

As I mentioned in the CORE meeting we had, again - this mission is about automation of issues and stopping emails and general questions outside requests for link changes; new chapters and the like - is the goal. The problem is not money- it is organization. This takes years...But ideally- everything is self-contained and once the new Guide is done (sorry) we will have more ease.

Peter

TVP has gone precisely the way I predicted they would (or, rather, observed they already were). It's just a shame such predictions don't get listened to until it is too late and people are jaded by their losses and waste of time and energy.

tvp should seriously cover part of the movies costs....

im very dissapointed how they funcion.

it was fun to host the australian tour in 4 cities, and we sold all seats in all cities! we even made few grand of money for them from each event. Gosh... there was about 18k profit from sydney alone ($35 a ticket times 600 minus 2k venue) and they prolly made, 50k or even 100k from the whole tour!

and now they pocket the 180k donations?!!!
Are you fu&#% serius!

im going to ram their scientific method pitch up theirs, once ill go to florida!

they should seriously have solar panels and omega gardens happening all over venus florida by now...

and they SHOULD pay part of the costs for the movies to PJ. period.

Peter

could you provide me a source for the info that TVP has pocketed the "major motion movie money"? It would be good to identify the source since i would like to write an angry em ail :D an d i dont want to write it if that info is "internal", and make a fool of us.

I agree with PJ is pretty much an inversion for social happiness without cash return. I prefer members creating great projects on their own and appealing to a bigger community not just TZM.

Let's crowd source this inversion for social happiness. It's for all of us.

Saludos,

Andrés Delgado

David

I share your rage and views completely. TVP have airbrushed out their sources, insult every person that offers to work with them (I've heard william gazecki be called "dumb" by Jacque at least 3 times online) and literally do not practise what they preach. Their energy bills for Venus, FL are at least a couple of thousand a month. Where's the solar, bitches?? Get that in, then perhaps you wouldn't be begging for change the whole time or demanding people "buy your book". Inversion for all!

Kick starter, indiegogo etc are already in place. Federico's project is done, Doug (I think) used kickstarter for something etc. lets keep it like that. I even suggested to our uk filmmakers recently that they use it too. It's easy, it's there and it doesn't duplicate. And more importantly it outsources fundraising, which we will one day be thankful for.

Yup - I've been asking these questions for a long time ;-)

I'm not going to get overly upset with TVP, although I guess that's easy to say when unsurprised and from the position of someone who was never overly enamoured with them from the start. To me, bearing in mind that that we can't control the behaviour of other individuals or organizations, the most important thing is that we act with the utmost integrity and walk our talk as far as is possible - which likely varies from person to person depending on what resources they have access to, where in the world they live, and how far along the journey of detachment they are.

Regarding "detachment" I don't mean to sound too esoteric there, and certainly don't mean to judge anyone else's position; it is just one example of the changes humanity needs to make It's just I was having a conversation with a friend earlier about moving away from our attachments to money, status and "stuff" - explaining how I don't expect everyone to hop from one point to another overnight (he was rather sobered by the idea of not having "ownership"), but just expressing my own personal journey of detachment (incomplete as of yet!) partly through necessity, and partly through "growth". I think we all have an "inner transition" to make as well as the external work we do, and that the extent to which we are working on this will greatly affect the work we do and they way we are perceived. We none of us are perfect (yet?) ;-)

All up - the best medicine, in my view, is for us to walk our talk and demonstrate that we have the integrity that others may perhaps lack.

David,
Regarding the 118,000$ it was sim ply said in the radio show they did with Bakari Pace a few weeks back. They even said "its better this way because we dont have to pay ourselves". I laughed out loud.

The 2-3 years of donations funneled through to them from TZM.com with no accounting was never fully talked about, absent som e $5000-$10,000 donations m entioned in passing. The 70k figure is an estim ate I extrapolated given popularity and time That cannot be proven and they have no transparency.

Frankly, you should ignore it. It's over. They pulled 118,000$ from the community for a "script writer" that isnt happening for fact and that money is doing nothing, clearly, and I suspect fresco will die and roxanne will bail on TVP. She is concerned about her retirem ent and needs the fresco nam e to survive. If they had any integrity, they would have put together a real team for action on their estate - a research center for real. They have s pace for huge work flows... I tried to get them to do that as well long ago. Fresco simply thinks no one understands enough.

This is just the nature of it and they are self-preserving...pathologically, in fact. I wouldnt think anything m ore about it- only to learn how such institutions corrupt and what to stay away from .

P

tvp should seriously cover part of the movies costs....

im very dissapointed how they funcion.

it was fun to host the australian tour in 4 cities, and we sold all seats in all cities! we even made few grand of money for them from each event. Gosh... there was about 18k profit from sydney alone ($35 a ticket times 600 minus 2k venue) and they prolly made, 50k or even 100k from the whole tour!

and now they pocket the 180k donations?!!!
Are you fu&#% serius!

im going to ram their scientific method pitch up theirs, once ill go to florida!

they should seriously have solar panels and omega gardens happening all over venus florida by now...

and they SHOULD pay part of the costs for the movies to PJ. period.

Peter

could you provide me a source for the info that TVP has pocketed the "major motion movie money"? It would be good to identify the source since i would like to write an angry em ail :D an d i dont want to write it if that info is "internal", and make a fool of us.

To all GCA representatives: The Asia-Pacific regional coordinators have agreed, by
consensus, that they would like for Mahima Bedi of the Indian chapter to take over
my responsibilities with representation in the region.

Mahima has been selected as she has been a national coordinator for w ell over a
year, has successfully established and assisted with the development of multiple
regional/city sub-chapters, has contributed to highly successful development of the
Indian chapter, has a clear track record with no complaints received, and has been
a very helpful and supportive volunteer in the Asia-Pacific region, taking her
responsibilities and support of others very seriously.

With the consent of the rest of the GCA I w ill begin to orient Mahima to the
responsibilities she w ill need to fulfill, introduce her to the GCA team, and ensure
she is up to date w ith all necessary information. I w ill continue to support Mahima in
her responsibilities for as long as I am needed.
--
Kari McGregor
Editor, Spirit of the Times magazine

http://www.facebook.com/TheVenusProjectGlobal?ref=stream

Very simply: bad move.

Please just pull that article. We can vent all we want here but public attacks against TVP has always been a NO-NO. It hurts us too and things are bad enough in general with them. This article doesn't help anything. Vent in private!

Again, please pull in whatever way you can.

Peter

Peter I must with respect disagree.. And it's hard to disagree with a person holding your status. There are 2 aspects i
need to mention here:

1) Politics.

My ethics do not allow me to bend to politics and be coerced to censor the article in question. There is nothing untruthful written it in - in fact it's referenced and peer-reviewed. I don't know who is pressuring you to react in the way you do now Peter, but I would urge to review your close network who is doing that and why.

I find it amazing that from one side TVP is free to scrutinize TZM, and on the other side we can't point out their fallacious logic.

2) Science

It is in the movement's ethos to put its information against the scrutiny of the scientific method of inquiry. That's what I do with my article; if my statements are untruthful or their logic is fallacious, then that can be proven and it should be. We both agree that criticism for the sake of criticism and uninformed opinions are unwelcome; I did my best to come exactly from the opposite point and I'm ready to be proven wrong. So far, Roxanne's rebuttal does not address a fraction of the article, and a person who understands critical thinking can see that my arguments still stand.

I should not need to point this out in the Core Circle of the most critical thinking movement in the world.

David,
PJ is too polite, basically you're full of shit. I read the article so answer me this.

Of what use was it to anyone?

What did anyone learn from it? (and I m ean really learn)

What has been gained from it ? O ther than to m assage your fevered ego.

Leave the old Dude alone & let him die in peace, we all know TVP have fucked up they are far
from perfect, who is?

Don't drag us down into the cesspool of tabloid journalism

I warned Miguel about this. There was a huge discussion about this in zm chapters google group. I was kind of surprised you sent it to the entire Aus chapter using our newsletter tool. Please ask yourselves why did this happen? Why was no one peer-reviewed the content before sending it?

If you need more time please let others fulfill your responsibilities. PJ I do understand why we don't focus on structure but THIS is why we need at least a basic structure where collaboration and double checking can happen.

Saludos,

Andrés Delgado

Andres - please don't call for peer review when none of the work you are doing are going
through such process.

The article in question was peer reviewed - I'm sure you know what peer review means - dont
you ?

Some peer review process would have done nothing. It's why it felt it had to be written that's the problem, if it is just out and out aggressive. But I haven't read it so I have no idea.
Sent from my iPhone

Regarding whether or not peer review would have prevented this, it depends on who's reviewing it. (As David said, it (apparently) was reviewed.) I can tell you the first thing I thought when I saw TVP's response was, as Ben said, "why was this even written?" and secondly, "how did this get published?" I was wondering who reviewed/approved it and who all was behind it which is why I didn't speak out against it publicly; I thought if the entire TZMA M agazine team (whoever that may be), and perhaps even Peter, was behind it for reasons I might not yet have understood, then it was not my place to denounce it.

However, seeing as how everyone including myself seems to be caught off guard by it, I will mention that my following thought was that there is no way that article would have gotten past our Editors, because regardless of its validity, whatever's written in it is not the message or tone we want to communicate to our audience. We have had several articles submitted that were very well-written and informative (and we could tell it took the author a lot of time and effort) but had to be rejected because it did not make sense coming from "the voice of the movement." We asked those writers to publish it elsewhere.

Which brings me to David's response. You talk about Politics and Science and completely left out PR and how this makes us look to the public eye. You keep defending your points WITHIN the article itself, but what you are missing here is one major point: You start the article out talking about how you supported TVP in their tour, etc. How firmly you stood behind them (as many of us did). Then later you mention that Fresco's theories have never been tested and aren't proven... (???) Regardless of whether that is true, if that is the case then why were you behind them to begin with? I can guarantee you that 3rd-party readers and especially nay-sayers will be asking the same question now. "If TZM was so blind as to support a fallacious idea to begin with, after we argued that it's not supported, then why the hell should we bother to listen to them now?" (I'm looking forward to responding to those...) You mean to tell me this didn't occur to you at all before writing/publishing it? You talk about ethics but did you stop to think how you might make the rest of the ZM members feel, especially those who still have a good relationship with other TVP members? Did you consider the awkward position you would put us in by publicly denouncing TVP when some of us still have materials out there claiming that certain science behind it is valid?

At this point I understand that you're defending your arguments and statements in the article, and pointing out that Roxanne did not refute them, but that is beside the point. I feel that this is something that could have, and should have, been published on a personal blog if desired (though I'd still advise against that given your title, but at least the rest of the Movement isn't held accountable).

I think it's clear that most here don't agree with the decision to publish that article, especially using an Official TZM medium, and I ultimately find it irrational of you to hopelessly defend it on the basis of "science" as if there are no other factors to consider.

(I'd also just like to mention that I have nothing against you personally, David,
and I honestly did not even feel this strongly on the subject and was going to
keep quiet until you started responding to others with these irrelevant objections, as if you're not listening to what anyone has to say. As if you don't
care what your fellow members think or feel and are just defending your own
agenda, taking it upon yourself to make an executive decision "in the name of
science" because the rest of us supposedly don't know any better, and as if
Peter has somehow been "persuaded" to respond this way because he can't think for himself. It was after picking up on that attitude from you that I felt the need to come forward.)
-- Sent f rom my mobile dev ice

"there is hundreds of thousand of dollars donated out of good will that are going down the
drain" Doh!

Welcom e to the monetary system.

Brandy! Thank you for your much more lucid & gracious reply, I will get there hopefully one
day I just have little time for this kind of crap.

Andrés- I'm not a paternal figure here and have about 45 projects of my own to deal with. If you like, I will simply never send ANYTHING out again to anyone. I try to trust and 99% of the time, its fine. This is an exception.

David- you should have known better.

I have already email Roxanne to express that this had nothing to do with Global and hopefully that will ease their ongoing feeling of threat from TZM. I'm sorry they often act like children - but us rebutting what is a desperate couple with some serious baggage, does nothing but build more tension.

My suggestion stands - Pull it from the internet. It is simply a matter of time before the Trolls come out and start to claim a new "war" with the two groups and, yes, it is very damaging to both groups and serves no role. We are not to "protect" anyone from TVP. They will find out on their own what TVP means.

Peter
Peter

Tom.
Can you ever afford a more mature reply? instead calling people names and making wanker-like replys?

dont you know better how to behave in front of people you even havent met?

and how is that his behaviour is not conemed here all the sudden? is trolling and ad-hominem all the sudden allowed?

and thats just after the new orientation guide has been released thst specifically adresses such behaviour.

My Darling David, let m e address your points,

Can you ever afford a more mature reply?

Yes but as Brandy and others are far more lucid & crystalline than myself I defer you again to her reply.

instead calling people names and making wanker-like replys?

Wanker? Remember David I work in construction so I've been called a lot worse & I'm still alive but yes as with all of us I can at times act like a wanker but that's hardly a war crime & I'm working on trying to be less of a wanker. Also I didn't call you any names I said you were full of shit so please read the posts carefully.

and how is that his behaviour is not conemed here all the sudden? is trolling and ad-hominem all the sudden allowed?

As Kari recently mentioned you Aussies like to call 'a spade a spade'. I have worked & travelled with plenty of Aussies & it is indeed one of their more appealing cultural habits, so welcome to my world. If people want to condemn me I will humbly recant & desist from further posts.

and thats just after the new orientation guide has been released thst specifically adresses such behaviour.

Yes indeed a wonderful document & the work of MLK & James Gilligan on violence & aggression I read & admire immensely I hope to one day to be able to be redress my behaviour to come some where near the ideals they espouse but for now I'll just have to live with the fact that sometimes things just really get on my tits & I'm not as evolved as I'd like to be.

Faithfully,

Tom

Dear Team:

Peter (and team).- I didn't mean that at all. I think I was kind of disturbed since I warned about this to Miguel specifically pointing to the page of the article and when our Aus friends asked about why it hasn't been sent, probably I was expecting some comment about it, however since I asked about it and there was not response perhaps I assumed it was approved and when I see you didn't read it I was kind of angry not with anyone in particular (I have deep respect for both Miguel and you) but the situation. I apologize.

This brings me to what I really wanted to talk about for a while now and it's the situation we are facing as a global team. This can be seen as something [I don't know really how you will receive this :P] but I do feel the need to express what I see as a possible solution to an undefined problem within the movement. Recently there was a huge threat after David's 'resignation' talking about why collaboration is so hard, walls for collaboration here and there plus extra view points where the problem was not any structure but the lack of volunteers... And everyone can argue within their context and probably we all will be right at some point. But I wanna take this one step further so my proposal is LET'S FIGURE THIS OUT .


HOW?
I think (and please understand I had been involved in virtually every single group in the movement and had thought about this for months) we need to be honest with the public and ourselves in the most simple expression of it: The Zeitgeist M ovement Wiki. I'm gonna be more specific here since a wiki can be pretty much anything and I'm pointing for something very specific. A while ago I proposed The First Step Project, and it was going pretty well until we all got so busy with ZMF + TVP split. You can read more on the link but the initial objective was to produce an all-encompassing, continually evolving (i.e. "living") tool that showcases to newer TZM members what global projects are available, with each team represented by their own video. Provinding a very clear overview of all of the activism efforts throughout the Movement community, while allowing them to easily locate and dive into whichever projects attract them the most.

You can see what I was looking for in this single example: http://goo.gl/FIqlS

The problem with the format proposed initially was that there were too many changes in a very short time and sometime one single person leaving could mean the end of an entire project. So we are really dynamic and vulnerable but we want to project this image of solidity to the public. So there, you will get 1000 emails to one single person. So I concluded we needed a more dynamic tool (the wiki) and also a change in how we show ourselves to the public: We need to open-source the movement or as Seth would call it, show the power of an individual within TZM.

Content:
I'd focus on global teams/projects, tools and people in charge of it. And once again I think we should be honest about how we handle these.
For instance:

- Global Newsletter M ailing List:
*Description: This consiste in the most sensitive tool of the movementcommunication, it has
very restricted access and can only be used by PJ, Gilbert and Darr.

*Criteria: Global messages and local events (let's say)

*Collaboration: There is not need for collaboration with this tool, you can help to a
better managment of this tool by helping those in charge with their other activities.

The idea of the wiki is that every project has its page, and also the volunteers working of it. If I see PJ with 45 projects then I'd probably understand why he doesn't answer my email or I could help with some of the 45 projects. I think we must be specific specifically defining where we are open to collaboration and where we are not.

I think every team, project, tool and person should have a single page.

Access: Wikis, as many of you can know, are not necessarily open to everyone, you can select the level of access for every specific member and since I'm aware of how appealing we are to trolls what I'm suggesting is a wiki where everyone can read but only a few can edit, to be specific those involved in the teams.

For instance, we need to update a lot of things about the newsletter team and how it works, and the kind of volunteers we need and how to join, we do need an editorial team and blablabla... The info has been put out there but one of the most interested people in get this done is Brandy, that's her passion, that's why she created the team. So insted of (once more just an example) create frustration in her because the team needs are not being made public, or creating fights because the main site manager doesn't update the tools. Why can we just give her access to the central hub for collaboration within the movement?

TZM Education is another example, a lot of people is willing to translate it, the truth is the guy who bought the domain left the movement, we don't have any access to it and the solution is rebuy the domain and put it in a different server in order to remake everything and create something where we can translate. This should have been accomplished very easily if we have made this public.

The most important thing about the wiki and about being honest is that it allow others to make better decisions regarding the group dynamic of a global movement.

So, what do you think? Please answer and as a group let's finally conclude a solution from all these previous threads.

Andres

A wiki platform for that purpose has been founded here in Australia and its up and online since beginning of this year.
http://tzmwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

That wiki can be used as Andres suggests - in fact that's why it was founded.

There was a wiki once connected to the main tzm.com site, I do not know why it was pulled down.

LISTEN - DEBATE ALL YOU GUYS WANT but PULL THE ARTICLE OFF YOUR AUSTRALIAN SITE NOW. DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR THE FACT THAT I AM THE M AGNET FOR EVERY M ALCONTENT OF THE TZM AND EMAILS ARE FLYING BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF CONSIDERATION.

IT ALL COMES BACK TO M E WHETHER YOU/WE/I LIKE IT OR NOT AND YES - TVP CAN SUE M E PERSONALLY BECAUSE OF YOU!

take it down, please

Peter

PS - I HAVE SPENT ALMOST 2 YEARS ATTEMPTING TO CONJURE UP A DECENT, MUTUAL RESPECT/ RELATIONSHIP TO OCCUR WITH TVP FOR THE SAKE OF THE BROADER COMMUNITY. I HAD EVEN THEM ON A RADIO SHOW RECENTLY WITH BAKARI TO SHOW THIS INTEREST TO HAVE PEACE AND STOP THE ATTACKS. THEY EVEN CAME ON...IT WAS GETTING BETTER

DID YOU PEOPLE NOT GET THAT? DO YOU NOT SEE THE POINT OF THIS?

I'm sorry, but if I see this thing still on your website tomm, TZM Australia will be removed as an official chapter. You have no idea the shit storm I/we are now dealing with because of this stupidity.

Peter

PPS!
okay, now that my all caps yelling is out of the way... :)

I'm sorry to be irritated and I will spare you a run down of the nonsense that continues. I'm know you meant well David. I admire your perseverance. However, this does need to be corrected or Global will, indeed, need to disassociate from Australia. This has been recommended by many now.

All we ask is that the banner (anything with "Debunking TVP") be taken down and the online version be edited to remove the TVP article.

That's it.

Cool?
P

Right now Australian time is 2:24 pm - working hours on a working day.

As this is a matter that concerns our whole chapter now we have called a meeting to discuss this evening with the TZM Australia our collective response. We will make a decision regarding our course of action by consensus and will let you know the outcome as soon as it is decided.

Thank you,

This is my last communication within this group. Interaction with TZM Australia will occur through the Global Chapter Coord. I will be in touch with most everyone personally via email.
Peter

I like the Aussie tall poppy syndrome, it has a lot of benefits. Which makes me then wonder why, after more than a year since the split, David decides to broadside them? Can you explain that one? If its not big deal, why the article at all? Has something recently happened which prompted it?

And to be honest, the rest of the concerns I have are covered by brandy's email. David I'm not sure what it is, but you have been consistently blunt and quick to anger in the history of this group. I'm not sure you can be demanding "mature replies" of anyone presently. Just take five before posting again, rather than tapping out the next email. It's getting to the point where I would rather not be part of this "team".

Why after more than a year since the split, David decides to broadside them Can you explain that one?
TVP pocketing the $100,000 was the final straw - a clear misconduct on their behalf. I haven't changed my mind about TVP overnight, it was a gradual transition during a careful observation of TVP that was followed with the research of some of their proposals. I have to admit that conversations with people like Richard Heinberg, Nicole Foss or lectures by Derrek Jensen lead me to some of the conclusions written. After all, TZM and TVP strongly advocates that informed people, like scientists should be at the front of the decision making process. These are few of them, and these are the ones that I have asked about TVPs approach (directly or indirectly). I'm sorry, but i haven't heard the same things that Jacque Fresco talks about - very often far from it.

Has something recently happened which prompted it?
Yes. Actually it did. The Spirit of the Times magazine was releasing its Debunking issue. The article fitted the theme and my understanding had reached a point to bear fruits.

You start the article out talking about how you supported TVP in their tour, etc. How firmly you stood behind them (as many of us did). Then later you mention that Fresco's theories have never been tested and aren't proven... (???) Regardless of whether that is true, if that is the case then why were you behind them to begin with?
I was naive and i took Fresco on face value - without research and without asking experts on matters in question - same as you have Brandy.

If TZM was so blind as to support a fallacious idea to begin with, after we argued that it's not supported, then why the hell should we bother to listen to them now?
The answer is - we should not. Instead we should present the adherence to the scientific method. Show that even the movement is amending its points of view and that its views are dynamic. All information is emergent and TZM should show that we are as well.

One could argue that our understanding started with a anti-banking and conspiracy-oriented approach and has evolved into a human concern oriented systems approach - time to evolve even further and walk our talk. Its time to apply the scientific method of inquiry to our own understanding AND decision within the movement. Currently, we are not doing this.

Brandy and all - have you ever had that hard and tiresome conversation with a someone who just did not get what TZM stands for? how stubborn he was and almost resistant to the ideas? Yet you have tried and tried to communicate these ideas, not out of frustration and desire to win the argument, but out of the necessity to inform another human being of x? How i feel throughout my presence in this group is exactly as that messenger.

...
Day by day, I am more and more mind blown how desperately the zeitgeist needs to change - within the zeitgeist movement. How TZM has become the manifestation of our current society instead of a example to look up to. How politics, PR and personal power plays have become more important then walking the talk. How The scientific method has become a secondary option.

Wouldn't we want to know an error about the RBE, or the organizations that we support? Aren't we supposed to be the ones that are welcoming to be proven wrong? Don't we want to apply the scientific method to our own decisions and understanding? Or is this something we just talk about? And are we to ignore the scientific truth because its more beneficial to lean towards PR? Or are we genuinely committing to what we advocate?

I wonder if there are cultural issues at play here? It needs to be understood that Spirit of the Times is an Australian magazine, run by an Australian team, and written for a predominantly Australian audience. Aussies are used to calling a spade a spade, and have no problem with it. We have received absolutely no criticisms from our Australian readership, only thankyous. Aussie culture appreciates honesty and knowing where we stand, and people always know where they stand with others. It may be for this reason that we have had absolutely no problems since the TZM/TVP split - people knew they were free to go whichever way they wanted, and some chose both. Having said that, TVP has next to no following here in Aus, and they have no chapters at all. There is a lot of sympathy for TZM and a lot of people have heard of us, but people aren't honestly interested in TVP. We have groups and organizations working for innovative change here who have cultural and political legitimacy, such as BZE (Beyond Zero Emissions) - they have a great following and are likely to see some real successes in their plans coming to fruition.

When it comes to PR, I guess it also needs to be understood that Spirit of the Times is not a PR front for the Movement; it's a magazine whose objective is to communicate a message to as wide an audience as possible. It is for this reason that the magazine is not branded as a TZM magazine or touted as a mouthpiece of the M ovement - as we aim for as broad a reach as possible. The message is gaining traction, as is the magazine, with quite a following outside TZM. As far as TZM-specific PR is concerned we in the Aussie chapter work more on the messaging - the objectives of the RBEM rather than promoting who/what TZM is, so there is no "them & us" issue between TZM & TVP, or with any other organization. We collaborate effectively with other groups and orgs and are well-respected in activist circles. We don't seem to have done any damage to our PR here as a result of David's article - to be honest, Aussies are likely to just dismiss people who have a problem with it as whingers who need to belt up and get on with life. We don't have any problem with trolling here, never have, and haven't started to experience any problems since publication of the article - honestly I think Aussies are too laid back to bother with trolling, and they'd only be greeted with blunt honesty regarding what they're doing, not with panic.

Now, if this doesn't fit other cultures that's understandable. We don't have a single culture in this world; we don't all react in the same way to the same information. If our material doesn't fit other cultures they don't have to read our materials, they are not forced upon anyone. Our material suits an Australian audience better than material being generated by the US chapter via the global website, for example. It is fair that Aussies get to share information suitable for Aussies with other Aussies. The magazine was only sent out to our Australian subscribers (and actually it didn't reach the 11,000 who are only subscribed via TZM global - seems the global mailing list function didn't work after all), and it is only now plastered all over TVP's Facebook page because they have chosen to make a big deal out of it.

So, my suggestion? We get back to work - worry less about public image and more about actually getting on with our work.

Cheers,

Sorry everyone, my phone stopped receiving emails for some reason and magically decided to send them all just now... so I'm a bit behind.

Ok, Kari, I'll be honest. You seem like one of the smartest people I know of in this M ovement, but I am going to have to call you out on this. (Sorry, Peter as I see that you've already basically attempted to nip this in the bud, but I feel this needs to be said, so I'm going to... Not to mention, based on Kari's response to 'you', the decision seems to still be theirs anyway, so it probably makes no difference what I say here.)

To the point, am I honestly the ONLY ONE in this thread that felt a nauseating sense of irony reading a response that was essentially littered with totally irrelevant "culturally handicapped" excuses coming from one of the organizational leaders in a movement that advocates transcending cultural boundaries???

Kari... you've GOT to be kidding me. I am saying this NOT to try and put you down, but on the contrary, I honestly couldn't believe it was even coming from you as I was reading it. I was wondering at what point you are going to do the right thing, and put your "cultural pride" aside, and get to the POINT... get to what's important and what everyone was discussing... and I was thinking that there's NO WAY she's just going to ignore everyone's concerns and just end the email like this... and that's exactly what you did! You basically said, "I'm an Aussie, this is how we roll. Let's get back to work." I don't even know what to say. I'm genuinely disappointed, and that may not mean much to you coming from me, but I'm telling you nonetheless, because I felt it as I read it. (In fact, I was going to send you an email in private, but I felt it was best to let everyone know how much I truly value your opinion and was hoping you'd have something more meaningful to say on the matter. I was actually even hoping you'd be like "yeah it's well written, but I kind of see their points, David, maybe we should just take it down," or something like that... and help him to understand why, in your own eloquent way.

"Aussies are used to calling a spade a spade, and have no problem with it."

I'm sorry, is this the Australian Movement? Or the Zeitgeist Movement? The whole POINT of this thread is that other people have a problem with it (in this particular case)! If you don't care, then just come right out and say that , since you apparently have no problem "calling a spade and spade," and you could have saved us all the reading.

"We have received absolutely no criticisms from our Australian readership, only thankyous."

Congratulations. Unfortunately, due to TVP's response we've received PLENTY of criticisms from both TVP members and TZM members alike. M aybe you never thought TVP would even see it, or respond. Maybe you didn't care if they did. Not sure, but they did, and THIS is the result. Now that we HAVE this result, I'm not sure what the Australian response (or lack thereof) has to do with anything at this point. We're beyond that now.

"When it comes to PR, I guess it also needs to be understood that Spirit of the Times is not a PR front for the M ovement"

It doesn't matter. It serves as one anyway, proven by the initial title of TVP's note. I find it disappointing that you guys have one of the most visually appealing and commendable M agazines/Projects that I've witnessed in the M ovement, likely to get this kind of attention (and deserving of it, IMO), but then when your fellow members come to you with this concern, you conveniently "disassociate" yourself from any PR responsibility. That makes no sense at all. Whether those are your intentions for the M agazine or not, it comes with the package as long as you are representing TZM. I would think that would be more than obvious.

"We don't seem to have done any damage to our PR here as a result of David's article"

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here, so I'll address it in two parts:

-If by "here" you're simply saying you haven't done any damage to the Australian PR, then again, I have absolutely no idea what that has to with anything, since we've established that it's damaged the PR elsewhere.

-If I misunderstood you, and you're saying it hasn't done any damage at all, then that's obviously untrue, as we saw in the FB comment thread (discounting damage we haven't even seen yet...)

"Now, if this doesn't fit other cultures that's understandable."

Great, so take down the article. (Which is where I thought you were going with that statement, but
instead...)

"If our material doesn't fit other cultures they don't have to read our materials, they are not forced upon anyone."

I'm not even going to entertain that one, because you're more than intelligent enough to know that it's completely bogus. In order for someone to know that this particular article "doesn't fit their culture," (which is frankly some B-to-the-capital-S) they would had to have READ IT already, in which case the damage is already done. Just stop. Seriously.

"Our material suits an Australian audience better than material being generated by the US chapter via the global website, for example."

Yet, I find it interesting that, to my knowledge, the US Blog (which is actually global, but primarily US, due to staffing) doesn't publish anything that is *offensive* to any other culture and then defend it on the basis that it's "American." As part of a Global M ovement, we generally try not to publish anything that is offensive to *anyone* regardless of their culture. (Unless it's the free market. We can sh*t on them. ;)

"It is fair that Aussies get to share information suitable for Aussies with other Aussies."

Not under a TZM banner, it's not. If you want to publish "Aussie" things with other "Aussies" (that is otherwise objectionable to other "cultures"), then start a GENERAL "Aussie" group, not a TZM one.

"The magazine was only sent out to our Australian subscribers..."

Then TVP must be one of your subscribers. But from what you've enlightened us to so far about "Aussies," their reaction wasn't very "Australian."

"it is only now plastered all over TVP's Facebook page because they have chosen to make a big deal out of it."

Fair enough. I agree that the situation would not have escalated had they not done that. HOWEVER, they DID do it and so the problem now is that we (as a team of leaders, aiming to set a positive example) are trying to react accordingly, and all we're getting from you guys is excuses. You thought it was a good idea at the time. Fine. Maybe you STILL DO. Also fine. But that doesn't mean that you can't just take others (besides Australians, apparently) into consideration, and just take it down, out of RESPECT, for Peter if nothing else. (I was going to say what he already said, about how it comes back on him too. Since he already covered that, I'll leave it alone.)

"So, my suggestion? We get back to work - worry less about public image and more about actually getting on with our work."

This is a joke. "Worry less about public image " ...... in a group.... that is trying to gain... publicity ? That makes ZERO sense. ZERO, and you know it. This is just your way of standing firmly behind your article and hoping (or perhaps knowing) that it will eventually blow over and that you didn't have to submit to the expressed concerns of anyone here. About getting back to work, we'd love to. Unfortunately stuff like this is getting in the way, and instead of doing the mature and "worldly" thing by taking it down, you guys want to drag it out. Ludicrous.

I'll end with this. (Some may regard this next statement as the cow who gives the milk and then kicks the bucket over, but I still have my respect for Kari and so I will make this very clear regardless, or try to...) Kari, you have my sincere apologizes if I *personally* offended you in any way, or if you, at any point, felt I was just trying to be "bi*chy" toward you. That was never my intention and hopefully anyone reading this can see that. (In fact, it was out of respect for you (and my assumption that you'd approved the article) that my initial comment on TVP's note was more "neutral" in nature, rather than just publicly denouncing the article as BS.) Thank you for all of your hard work in this M ovement, and I only hope that something I said might get through and help you see this issue differently, even if you don't necessarily agree. Unfortunately I fear that your response (if any) may be no different than your initial one, and that's okay. There is nothing I can do about that. I am just "calling a spade a spade." Zeitgeist hugs.

-Brandy

I'd sincerely love to see us all put that time and energy back into the work we do for the M ovement - not to detract from the importance some give this matter - but to just maintain perspective and focus on what's most important.

"I'd sincerely love to see us all put that time and energy back into the work we do for the Movement - not to detract from the importance some give this matter - but to just maintain perspective and focus on what's most important."

I agree. I'm not sure how long it would take to get the article down, but that is how long it would take for us to get back to work.

"being that the consequences concern the entire chapter by way of collective punishment - whilst having a
proverbial gun pointed at our heads with a 24-hr warning."

Forgive me for being blunt, but cry me a river. You guys can end this NOW (and could have a long time ago) by simply removing the article. Hell, David is the one who wrote it, so let him be the one to pull the plug. If you guys are willing to axe an entire chapter over it, then that's your choice. But don't conflate this with with some tyrannical ultimatum, when you, yourself, have just claimed that the article is not a big deal, but yet you guys are desperately unwilling to simply remove it (?) You claim to want to "get back to work" and focus on what's important, yet you are having a meeting and arriving at a "decision" about whether to remove an article, instead of just doing it. I don't understand. (Am I missing something here, like is it a matter of it being really difficult to take down? Or are you guys discussing the principle of this issue and whether or not you should have to agree to take it down. I'm assuming the latter.)

About the "cultural pride" thing, I see now. You were just offering an explanation. Normally that would have been all well and good except that your explanation was followed by a suggestion to just forget it and move on, which I felt was utterly dismissive of everyone's concerns, and is what led me to believe that your response was not simply a helpful explanation of the Aussie culture, and more of an "excuse" as to why the article is still fine, and why we should just leave it. Thank you for clarifying. (I also must have gotten confused reading all of the "we" this and "we" that and somewhere along the line thought you were Australian, lol. My bad.)

-Brandy (Good luck with the meeting and whatever you guys decide)

Hi there Peter,

In response to your request that the "Debunking TVP" article be immediately removed from the TZM Australia website we would like to politely request a little more time - 12 more hours from now will be enough for us.

The team had a meeting yesterday to discuss our response to the request and its consequent threat of de-officialization of the Australian chapter and have concluded that we were not given sufficient time to come up with a final response to the matter. The team have, however, decided to formulate an interim response, which will be our collective response at this stage based upon collating the responses of individual volunteers whose voices need to be heard. It will take me a bit longer to collate all responses as we have given the volunteers until 2pm today to contribute their input, and from then I will be able to provide the collective response which will determine our course of action. Now, myself and David have to be at an event in Brisbane today (TZM does not pause its actions for anything) and are unable to be online for the rest of the day - this is unfortunate timing and of course it wasn't taken into account in your request. Tonight, when we are back online, we will follow through with the course of action determined by the response of the team.

I hope that you do not see this as us stalling for time - it is simply that any decision is necessarily followed by a course of action, and we are already late to depart for this event (4-hour round-trip drive - as I'll be driving I can't be typing/teamspeaking - plus time spent at the event).

Thank you for your consideration - we will get back to you asap.

Regards,
--
Kari McGregor
Editor, Spirit of the Times magazine
www.thespiritofcommunity.org

Hi there again,

OK, true to my word here is our ad-hoc response to the matter: 25 volunteers - most of whom are chapter or project coordinators in TZM Australia - were able to attend our meeting and provide their input for our collective response. The decision we have arrived at is as follows:

*We will immediately remove the article from the magazine published on the Zeitgeist Australia website (already complete)

*We will immediately remove the wording "Debunking the Venus Project" from the magazine's promotional banner on the Zeitgeist Australia website (already complete)

The response of the team is as follows (most people presented more than one of the following recommendations):

*32% recommend for the article to remain in its current form on the magazine on the website, but for TZM Australia to present a clear disclaimer on the website clarifying that the magazine is not an official voice of the M ovement, and that views expressed in its articles are strictly those of the articles' authors, and are not the official stance of the M ovement (at present the magazine bears no explicit affiliation with TZM; it would simply be a matter of explicitly stating the aforementioned disclaimer)

*28% recommend for the article to remain in its current form in the magazine on the website as censorship is not accepted

*28% recommend for the article to be removed from the magazine for the sake of maintaining Australia's place in the global TZM network after the threat of dissociation

*12% recommend temporarily removing the article from the magazine on the Zeitgeist Australia website and then re-uploading it at a later date with the disclaimer that it does not represent the views of the Movement

*12% recommend for the article to be removed from the magazine in order to maintain positive relations with TVP

*8% recommend for the article to remain in its current form in the magazine on the website, and for us to publish TVP's response to it in the next issue of the magazine - as TVP have explicitly requested

8% recommend a re-write of the article to reflect an unbiased viewpoint and the amendments outlined by TVP's response

All present voiced concerns about the pressure posed by such an ultimatum as well as a desire to have the opportunity for careful consideration. All present voiced their disappointment regarding what is perceived as an approach of applying collective punishment.

Many of those present also voiced concerns regarding the heavy-handed approach of Peter Joseph in this particular case, stating a perceived contradiction between his expressed desire to not be a leader for the Movement, yet behaving unilaterally in times of perceived crisis when carefully considered discussion (of the sort that we had in our meeting) would have led to optimal outcomes for all concerned.

Several of those present pointed out that removing the article at this stage may lead to it being remembered as "the article that got censored", with the consequences that may bear being unknown at this stage.

Thank you for taking the points mentioned on board. We will get back to you in the next few days with our full response to this matter.

From me personally: I hope that this situation hasn't put you under too much undue stress. I know how hard that is from first-hand experience, and we need to support one another in difficult times. You are already aware that there were no negative intentions behind the article, just a pursuit of truth in a world of myth (hence it appeared in the myth-busting issue). Please forward responses to the article to the following email address (this is the email address listed in Spirit of the Times as the appropriate channel for responses to articles): magazine@thespiritofcommunity.org. I will deal with them as the buck stops with me, not you. Please don't take on the responsibility for this as it is misplaced on your shoulders.

Thank you and take care,
--
Kari McGregor
Editor, Spirit of the Times magazine
www.thespiritofcommunity.org

I am no longer engaging the issue. The damage you have already done to the TVP/TZM relationship is already too severe and the personal insult to me directly by your decision not to pull the article, at least in the meantime, knowing very well I am the one who faces all consequences in the end and I am the one who has to try and bridge again, leads me to assume that both you and David really are clueless with respect to basic decency on multiple levels - now hiding behind a "collective" decision "protocol" in order to secure the arrogance and conceit that has already been put forward by your actions.

Email Gil or M iguel in the future as I am no longer personally interested. If you choose to keep the article, it will be up to them and the other Global Coords to decide if TZM is to recognize Australia anymore. Sorry if you all still don't "get it". This is really simple, basic consideration and respect stuff.

Peter

It amazes me how you guys still don't get it. Amongst all that verbiage, fronting, %s and the like, couple with the audacity to even imply a "heavy-handed approach of Peter Joseph" given the true reality of the situation and my prior legwork to ease tension with TVP for the sake of the entire RBE Community, you STILL do not understand the damage you have now done and the prior need for an immediate reaction for damage control. Incredible.

I'm done here. I hope your future interests and actions, TZM related or not, come from a more expanded place of awareness, respect and consideration.

Peter

Sorry-

Please remove Zeitgeist: Addendum and Zeitgeist: Moving Forward form your DVD Distribution catalog on TZM Australia.

I wasn't aware of this happening on such a scale and it's against all rules I have set forward for duplication and free distribution since day one for the fully copyright films. The core rule: No monetary exchange. It doesn't matter if it is 1 cent. If you wish to link to DVD torrents for download, do it. But that's it.

In fact, no Chapter has done anything like this and its a blight on TZM in general to have such a gratuitous and blatant selling as you have setup. And I won't even go into the 3 year long, constant expression by myself to distance the film s from TZM, which has worked to establish its own materials.

You are not only in violation of my free distribution copyright terms, you are reinforcing a Peter Joseph film relationship to TZM which should not be reinforced anymore. TZM cannot be dependent on one's personal film project. The reason for the new 130 page Orientation and pending 22 essay video series, for example, is to give a core understanding of TZM directly, without the baggage of m y personal views which are inherent to the film series.

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear before.
Let m e know when rem oved.

I hope everyone is well in their transitions.
Best,
Peter

DVD Distribution Campaign

For the launch of our latest campaign check out this video explaining the mass-DVD distribution campaign that aims to bring global awareness to The Zeitgeist Movement and its aims by doing nothing less than distributing DVDs to every private property on the face of the Earth!

DVD Distribution Campaign

Zeitgeist series DVD's no longer avaliabe

Gentle Machine Productions, has requested for all Zeitgeist series documentaries and Culture in Decline episodes to be removed from our DVD Order section. The Zeitgeist Movement Australia will honor this request.

Zeitgeist series DVD's no longer avaliabe
Gentle Machine Productions, has requested for all Zeitgeist series documentaries to be removed from our DVD Order section, therefore the following DVDs wont be available anymore on this website.
*Zeitgeist Addendum
*Zeitgeist Moving Forward

The Zeitgeist Movement series and other material owned by Gentle Machines Production can be downloaded for free from the official websites.

If you have any questions you can contact the Australian TZM chapter.

Hi, I stumbled across the online article at 
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5519/australian-tzm-member-david-z-upsets-the-leaders-of-tz/


I noticed the video link was broken, because i took the file off of the  TZM Australia Youtube account because Peter Joseph didnt want this  project to be associated with TZM or his films, for whatever reasons.  Here's another copy on my personal account 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8kgCu0WiOY.

I thought you may be interested to know that after just 5 weeks of the campaign having a functional online platform on TZM Australia we  accumulated over 2,000 DVDs for distribution and a network of around 15  distribution volunteers, dispersing volunteers in nearly every  Australian state... just from a webpage blog and Facebook post! We were also operating at a loss, to enable around 50c to buy 1 DVD + postage. The project was accelerating FAST!

We also had a cover designed to direct people to the webpage that was just about to expand in scope to around 10 other compilations, including  written approval from "crossroads" the film, "Owned and Operated", as  well as Z-Day lectures and tutorials - pretty much any films that are  related to a RBE or challenging the monetary paradigm. This would have  drawn all viewers to the page and site, encouraging a high level of  efficiency of information transfer between people just "wanting to get  the word out", but who may not necessarily have many options for  constructive participation. This method distributes DVDs straight to  peoples doors for free!

The aim was to send out the initial batch of 2000 DVDs to rapidly draw  more attention to the movement/ DVD project simultaneously while  allowing a form of regular monetary contribution...as an option, still  encouraging voluntary participation! This monetary contribution is in  some ways more efficient than "street" activism which by the way...also  costs money, fuel, resources to do and often falls short in  communicating such broad concepts to strangers just going about their  day to day lives. So surely if the one planet project gets global  support, surely another awareness campaign with the same ends, but  alternative means would receive support from the international chapters,  especially if it reduces resource consumption? But after we printed the  first 1000 DVDs we were told that we do not have the right to continue  this project on TZM au platform, in the emails sent by Peter.  So The  1000 DVDs directed people to a "dead" webpage, no more orders to be  placed, the project essentially shut down before it could begin. The  remaining 1000+ DVDs will direct people to the new upcoming  online  platform that is in the process of creation and will include a  "automatic debit" option, to allow a continuous stream of highly  relevant DVDs to be GIFTED to the public in a systematic way. This will  allow us to use a broad variety of compilations that don't have to be  restricted my "the movements" current form of accepted conduct, ie  "banning" any form of monetary contribution, even though in such  isolated examples it may have a higher degree of efficiency than pure  voluntarism.

While the project David and I begun rightfully received fantastic  support in Australia, and from the Asia-Pacific chapter the project was  dismantled from top down control, no scientific method taken into  consideration in the process of the decision. The project can and likely  will still be associated with TZM Australia, and any other chapters that  would like to make this a global scale project, after all TZM is just a  name. Its a shame more people didn't offer to help with the project with  their time or skills, this project could already be up and running on a  global scale, relevant DVDs being delivered to people all over the  world!  It is very disappointing to have a movement promoting  "efficiency" and "equality" ignore such an efficient communication /  activist method that could easily be scaled out, and be shut down from  the top


From: mason lee, mason.l at zeitgeistaustralia dot org
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Automatic DVD distribution Campaign - TZM Australia

Hi, feel free to paste the email and my name (Mason Lee). Even my email address so people can contact me directly. I hold no grudges from any of the arguments/ disagreements but transparency is important to me. I dont really have anything to ad at this point in time, but ill keep your email saved and contact you once the new page is up perhaps or if i think of anything else of

Strategic Mass DVD Distribution Plan - The worlds first viral DVD?
Submitted by mason_lee, Published on Sat, 01/21/2012 - 05:42

For further information, media and collaboration on ideas regarding the topics discussed below please like "zeitgeist mass awareness plan" on Facebook.

Communicating the ideals of TZM is not something easily brought up in discussion, especially with people who haven't seen Zeitgeist: Moving Forward or Addendum. For some people it may be difficult to articulate the logic of a RBE through conversation. It's not that the idea of an RBE is complex or irrational it is that it is so simple and rational that some people find it difficult to comprehend such a reality in our conditioned culture which accepts current complexities, inefficiencies, institutions and values as unchangeable static norms. People often dismiss and undermine TZM ideals because their perceptions are based on narrow frames of reference based on pre-existing political and cultural ideals and the distorted perception that money has value in our physical reality when in fact the only value money has is in our imagination and the artificial value is reinforced by culture.

Because of this hurdle of communication, I think it is very important that as many people are exposed to media related to TZM as possible, especially (at this stage) Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. Media has the ability to effectively communicate ideas that are contrary to people's understandings and beliefs far more effectively than discussion. Films are more compelling and engage viewers on multiple levels, but the best part is they can be duplicated thus making them very time efficient and consistent in their message.

Hopefully more exposure will allow more people to realize the broader picture of global problems and hence be more accepting and interested in realizing a RBE / applying the scientific method to social concern. For this reason I am proposing an organized system of creating mass awareness to The Zeitgeist Movement through mass distribution of relevant media, at this stage prioritizing Zeitgeist: Moving Forward / Zeitgeist: Addendum. An ongoing idea I have previously proposed is mass simultaneous uploads of Zeitgeist: Moving Forward on social networking pages on the first day of each and every month. After simply a few Facebook shares in late November 2011 this idea proved effective on December 1st 2011 with an increase of 25,000 views in comparison to the standard increase in daily views.



Unfortunately the success could not be tracked on the 1st of January 2012 due to the failure of the statistics display on You-tube in late December / early Jan. Please see the following page for more information on this proposal. http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/blog/masonlee/easy-and-simple-plan-...

However web views only reach a select demographic. From my experience of trying to get people interested in TZM I have found that many people who have heard of the movies still have not seen Zeitgeist: Moving Forward or Addendum because of the following reasons:

• Many people don't want to sit in front of a desktop computer for two and a half hours.
• Many people don't have sufficient internet access.
• Many people don't have a usable PC.
• Many people don't even consider watching things that aren't broadcast on TV or sold in retail outlets.
• Many people just forget / are not interested in looking it up on their own accordance.

It is for these reasons that the mass distribution of Zeitgeist: Moving Forward / Addendum on DVD is equally if not more important than creating more web views in the interest of creating a wider awareness to TZM. I'm not sure about the other specific chapter websites, but the Australian chapter has a link http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/dvd-burning-service/ where people can buy large quantities of TZM related media on DVD for a very cheap price (Nonprofit @ 35c per DVD). This cheap and easy access to bulk quantities of DVDs could be very useful to all chapters across the world if properly utilized.

So how can chapters utilize DVD distribution as a tool for creating mass public awareness more efficiently? Well, the answer is simple. We put our philosophies to practice through resource accounting and strategic design, the more important of the two being the latter because it is in the strategic design of the DVD cover and DVD burning webpage that allows resources to be accounted for and utilized most efficiently.

DVD Cover Design

Chapters may have multiple cover designs to choose from, but the most important things to consider from an efficiency standpoint when choosing the default design are:

Is the DVD cover design efficient for serving its function of creating awareness to TZM?

In other words, does the DVD design link viewers to related websites and social networking pages so they can easily learn more about TZM if they are interested?

Perhaps MOST importantly, in terms of the functionality of the DVD cover design you must consider:

Does the DVD cover design encourage its own duplication and distribution and provide links to the local chapter DVD burning webpage?

Remember we want the DVDs to go "viral" in physical form, which isn't as difficult as it sounds. If chapters sell DVDs in lots of say 100 (charged at 35c each = $35) then you only need on average 1% of the DVD viewers to order 100 copies from the service provided on the DVD cover. If your Chapter doesn't have a DVD cover design with these attributes you may want to consider designing one yourself or using one of the stencils provided below, just add your nearest DVD burning service web page link in the space provided (also available from zeitgeistmediaproject.com and "zeitgeist mass awareness plan" on Facebook).


Web design
Once viewers are linked to your local chapters DVD burning service site you should consider the following:

Are multiple compilations offered to offer a wider variety of TZM related material?
Remember the efficiency of the DVD resource will be increased depending on the quality and quantity of relevant material on each DVD. I personally encourage double features of Zeitgeist Addendum and Zeitgeist Moving Forward as the priority compilation at this point in time, possibly accompanied with an introduction to a resource based economy lecture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
Or handout http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/blog/masonlee/introduction-rbe-handout.

Is it easy, clear and affordable for users to purchase large quantities of DVD compilations and have them sent to their address?

Are multiple payment options offered? E.g. PAYPAL, direct debit, cash upon pick up etc.

Are distribution services offered? E.g. instead of having bulk DVDs sent to a singular address can DVDs be sent individually to be dispersed throughout specific suburbs, and accounted for accordingly? This method would allow for efficient resource allocation / tracking and would be more time efficient than people doing it independently. Remember we are trying to move into a collaborative system!

Are distribution methods recorded? E.g. Are purchasers asked how they intend to distribute DVDs ie. Suburb dispersion, Letterbox drop, public handouts, public events etc. This would allow for a higher level of collaboration.

Are distribution methods suggested? E.g. working in partnership with local DVD rental / retail outlets (by providing them with bulk lots of DVDs to distribute to their customers as gifts). Remember to be creative with your distribution ideas.

Are related services provided? E.g. Distribution services, resource accounting services (so participants can record specifics on where they are allocating their resources), printing services for related handouts, posters, stickers, business cards etc.

Can users contact website administrators directly for questions or customized requests?

I'm sure you can think of a few more yourself. I think a large scale collaborative DVD distribution web page on the global site taking into account the previous considerations could be an aim for web designers. This way sub chapters could collaborate and share information more efficiently. It could in a sense be a small scale example of how a global RBE could be put into practice. Who knows, maybe a few years down the road this is how everyone in the world will obtain copies of DVDs in a RBE. But it is up to you to make this happen.

So don't be shy, let's take advantage of copyrighted material that encourages duplication. And if you feel bad for getting DVDs for 35c each just donate or go buy a copy from the official movie site to support the films.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

CAN I COPY THE DVDS AND GIVE AWAY?
Yes- please do. While we will shut down any piracy that sells the films (it is fully copyright), we encourage everyone to duplicate it at will for non-monetary distribution. Also, public access showings and the like do not require any approval from us- just do it!

Don't forget to like "zeitgeist mass awareness plan" on Facebook for the collaboration and execution of ideas that promote TZM to the general public.

Please keep doing it on your own axxord, it's a global project and every chapter should have a DVD burning service and distribution options online. I also invite you to the Z-Day Australia 2012 DVD Drive, please share.

Z-Day Australia DVD Drive

Z- Day is coming up in mid-March and Australia has big plans to generate public awareness towards The Zeitgeist Movement, but we will need help from our international neighbors. Remember this is a global movement, so although you may not live in Australia your contribution will still be equally as valuable to the progress of the movement.

Z-Day Australia 2012 project aim: We want every residential property in the country to receive a DVD containing TZM related material around mid-March.

At only (AU) 35c per DVD the efficiency of a RBE is already obvious, which is why we are asking you to please purchase as many DVDs as you can to be distributed to the general Australian public in mid-March. Just follow the steps according to this page on the following link http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/dvd-burning-service/

Step 1 - write your name and email and type "distribution" in the postal address section. Please note: You will not receive the DVDs with this option; they will automatically be dispersed via Australia Post unaddressed mail services through the state of your choice in the dropdown menu. SA will be the default state because the DVD burning service is based there so it is more efficient, but you can still select another state.

Step 2 - Select: Zeitgeist Addendum + Moving Forward (lower quality double Compilation) or Zeitgeist Moving Forward for higher quality resolution (these options are recommended but not compulsory).Once the compilation option is selected type in your desired quantity.

Step 3 - Only PayPal or Direct Debit can be selected for the distribution service.
Please note although you will not receive the DVDs you will still be charged postage for the unaddressed mail services provided through Australia Post organized through TZM Australia.

Type in any other information RE: the services then click "SUBMIT" down the bottom of the page.

Done! The next step will be to wait for the public response, which will surely be interesting! All DVDs will link viewers to TZM related material and back to the DVD burning website through the cover design which you can view on the Facebook page "zeitgeist mass awareness plan" or the following link.

Hi,
click the link http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/dvd-burning-service/ Step1. - your address overseas Step 2 compilation step 3) PayPal or direct Debit BUT in the "any other information" section simply write the desired format (Australia uses PAL) and ask for postage costs to be adjusted and retype your address. Then click submit down the bottom
of the page. NOTE: you wont be charged from this process, a conformation email will be sent to you with finalized costs if accepted. If you want the cover design as seen in the block send this link in the "any other info" section http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/blog/masonlee/strategic-mass-dvd-di...

you contact him directly at: craftymethod@gmail.com - His name is David. If all else fails, you can donate x amount of DVDs and type in "distribution services" in the "any other info" section and we will disperse them throughout australian residential properties via unaddressed mail services.
Hope this was helpful. Thanks.

-Day Australia DVD Drive
Submitted by mason_lee, Published on Fri, 02/10/2012 - 10:21

Z-Day is coming up in mid-March and Australia has big plans to generate public awareness towards The Zeitgeist Movement, but we will need help from our international neighbors. Remember this is a global movement, so although you may not live in Australia your contribution will still be equally as valuable to the progress of the movement.

Z-Day Australia 2012 project aim: We want every residential property in the country to receive a DVD containing TZM related material around mid-March.

At only (AU) 35c per DVD the efficiency of a RBE is already obvious, which is why we are asking you to please purchase as many DVDs as you can to be distributed to the general Australian public in mid-March. Just follow the steps according to this page on the following link http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/dvd-burning-service/

Step 1 - write your name and email and type "distribution" in the postal address section. Please note: You will not receive the DVDs with this option; they will automatically be dispersed via Australia Post unaddressed mail services through the state of your choice in the dropdown menu. SA will be the default state because the DVD burning service is based there so it is more efficient, but you can still select another state.

Step 2 - Select: Zeitgeist Addendum + Moving Forward (lower quality double Compilation) or Zeitgeist Moving Forward for higher quality resolution (these options are recommended but not compulsory).Once the compilation option is selected type in your desired quantity.

Step 3 - Only PayPal or Direct Debit can be selected for the distribution service.
Please note although you will not receive the DVDs you will still be charged postage for the unaddressed mail services provided through Australia Post organized through TZM Australia.

Type in any other information RE: the services then click "SUBMIT" down the bottom of the page.

Done! The next step will be to wait for the public response, which will surely be interesting! All DVDs will link viewers to TZM related material and back to the DVD burning website through the cover design which you can view on the Facebook page "zeitgeist mass awareness plan" or the following link.

Welcome to GMP

In a world where the monetary incentive and business ethic continues to sabotage any hope for a more peaceful and abundant global society - we do only what we can - work to produce media designed to change people's minds.

All media is offered here for free. However, support is required to continue producing. It is up to you if you wish to offer support through purchase or donation.

HELP! With the record, free online viewing, royalty-free non-profit screenings,
free torrent downloads and unregulated, non-monetary screening allowance,
the ability to regain costs and fund future projects has become increasingly difficult.

Current projects which need assistance include the free, bimonthly satire web-series
Culture in Decline ( http://www.cultureindecline.com/ ) & his upcoming epic live actions film InterReflections I ( http://interreflectionsmovie.com/ ).

Thank you for your help.

Gentle Machine Productions LLC is the business entity owned by media producer and activist Peter Joseph. This website is the official point of sale for his work, along with being a portal for free downloading, online viewing and project information. Everything produced by Peter in digital form is available for free and this is the core ethic of his open distribution model. Reproduction of his works for non-monetary distribution is not only allowed, it is encouraged.

Existing and developing projects of Gentle Machine Productions include The Zeitgeist Film Trilogy, the Culture in Decline Bi-monthly Web Series, along Peter Joseph's new feature film project: InterReflections. Peter also produces literary works, musical scores and other personal art which is also available.

Also, in conjunction with The Zeitgeist Movement, a global non-profit sustainability advocacy group inspired by the Zeitgeist Film Series, Peter underwrites the main, annual live concert event called the "Zeitgeist Media Festival". This not-for-profit activism festival takes place in Hollywood, California each year.

Topic: Peter Joseph Sells Out Zeitgeist Movement: Gravitas Ventures and Wal Mart


Now we know Zeitgeist Movement is the poster child for a new web religion as uncovered by scholarly peer reviewed journal written by a Manchester Professor, we also discover Peter Joseph Merola, cult personality founder of the benign fringe conspirituality religion "The Zeitgeist Movement", has sold out to Gravitas Ventures and has licensed the use of his so called "activist" films to the likes of Wal-Mart, Amazon, Hulu, Netflix, Playstation, Vudu, XBox 360, Time Warner, Direct TV, I Tunes, the list goes on and on. Will Peter Joseph reveal his license agreement and royalty checks to his Zeitgeist fan base who he promised a "poetic" $5 tag?

Gravitas Ventures , LLC is a video-on-demand (VoD) distribution company was founded in 2006 to aggregate entertainment content for worldwide VoD distribution via cable, broadband, mobile and hospitals/airlines.

It is now clear Peter Joseph, leader of a new religious sect of "Conspirituality", is cashing in on the New Age & Conspiracy market and the New Age Conspiracy Religion, Zeitgeist Movement.

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Zeitgeist_The_Movie/70106739?locale=en-US

Zeitgeist: Moving Forward (2011)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/20595380

Zeitgeist: The Addendum (2008)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/20590312

$3.99 to RENT his conspirituality movie.

When Peter Merola was simply selling t-shirts and five dollar DVDs, I was able to overlook that because while I rarely agree with anything Merola says, he had a point. If he was throwing all of his personal finances into TZM, I can overlook selling shirts and five dollar DVDs. Even self ordained prophets have to eat.

But charging a fee to watch movies that are freely available is simple profiteering.

Doesn't matter; his words and his actions are what makes him a hypocrite. http://youtu.be/pGYwrRsKWYU

"If we have to choose between the 2 Systems"

But we don't. The world isn't being offered a dichotomy; there's a wide array of political and economic systems. Even if there was only 2 choices, the status quo would be the lesser of 2 evils. At least there wouldn't be famines and societal decay.

Me countering your baseless assertions against Walmart because you want to distract from the issue of Dear Leader being a total hypocritical sell out is not "defending Walmart." Walmart does bad things, but that doesn't give you free rage to make shit up like how they have a "philosophy of consumorism" they need to protect by not selling things that counter it.

Walmart sells books that insults them and had for years
http://www.walmart.com/ip/13246139
http://www.walmart.com/ip/20928033

Just get used to it. Merola sold you out for a 3.99 rental fee so he can live it up in L.A.

Peter is a hypocrite. It's that simple. I imagine his logic is that he's using the system against itself, so he gain benefit from it. TZm members will eat that up. It's really that simple. I said it before and this pretty much confirms it. Peter knows how to get the most out of the garbage he creates.

I just wanted to throw in that I've not went to a Walmart in years. I find stuff cheaper on the internet. Even the super Walmarts are not enticing to buy anything from. The best thing about Walmart as of right now isn't because it's the cheapest stuff but because there return policies are pretty nice as compared to others.

The fact that your movement's biggest recruiting tools are being sold by Wal-Mart is the clearest indication that it has failed. You haven't beaten the system, you haven't transcended the system and you didn't change the system either.

And now the system owns your movement.

I don't think they should remove it, why should they? Doesn't bother me. I knwo it bother you because it makes Dear Leader look like a hypocrite.

Walmart's decision not to sell pornography is irrelevant to their philosophy of selling politically disagreeing material.

Even if you were right, (and you aren't) Walmart's decision to sell Zeitgeist is also irrelevant.

Peter Joseph is a hypocrite regardless if Walmart is a hypocrite too. 2 wrongs do not make Peter Joesph right, it just means 2 fuckbags are hypocrites. This is text book style mental gymnastics.

So now I hope you know why I will now call you an idiot, idiot. If you don't understand why I'm calling you an idiot, then I stand corrected; you're retarded.

Walmart's mission statement is simple: Sell what people want at low prices. People want shitty moonbat internet videos, they sell it. Walmart isn't pushing a philosophy, they're just pushing merchandise people want. That's it. There's no hypocrisy. This shit is hurting my head with the level of stupidity. Please stop.

Merola does so it is hypocritical.

Merola also says charging things for $x.99 or $x.95 is manipulative; he charges 3.99 to rent a free movie. That's not only hypocritical; it's pretty shitty.

He doesn't do this for monetary reasons, but it's part of his income. In no way is this contradictory. Besides WE'RE ALL FREE MARKET PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, so we should accept anyone's hypocrisy on the matter because somehow that makes them not a hypocrite.

I'm sure he has rationalized it somehow, just like he did being a stock trader.

"The basic pursuit of The Movement is to begin a transition into a new, sustainable social design based on strategic resource management."

Copyrighting and the subsequent licensing and selling of a non-scarce resource that is available for free on YouTube?

So this is what TZM calls "strategic resource management"?

Merola has reached a new height in hypocrisy.

What happened to Gentle Machine Productions? Is this a front to make cash without the minions knowing it?

(Moderator's note...... I guess the money he makes from Gravitas Ventures won't show up here:

PETER IS JUST USING THE SYSTEM TO DESTROY ITSELF BY SELLING HIS DVD CONSPIRACY PACKS AT WALMART SO HE CAN PROFIT CAUSE IN BENEFITS ZEITGEIST! SEE PETER DOES NOT BENEFIT CAUSE HE'S OUT TO SAVE THE WORLD CAUSE HE'S A HERO WITH HIS RBEM!

TZM says these companies are evil, then Merola lets them sell his media. Media he says should be free, he lets the evil empire sell. That's hypocritical on so many levels.

The strange thing about all of this is the knowingly, double-edged sword of these businesses putting this up on the shelves in the first place. Sure, it could be for PJM's profits, but it no doubt doesn't speak of anti-Wal-Mart type propaganda, and it's essentially IN Wal-Mart, not to mention it's literally on the front page of the documentary section of Netflix, above Justin Bieber.

These businesses do have questionable ethics, as it's been pointed out numerous times, but this just takes the cake.

I think the question is, what would happen if you saw a poster for this hanging up in Wal-Mart, of all places, promoting the sales of a thing that essentially removes Wal-Mart?

I thought in Zeitgeist: Addendum Peter (biblical) Joseph (biblical) Merola (real last name) said Wal-Mart was evil lol.

I wonder if Peter Joseph disclosed to his conspirituality followers his deal with Gravitus Ventures?

Peter Josephs Tax Statements

Peter Joseph, famous for engaging in a huge public fight with the Venus Project over donation money, released his 1040 Tax Return and a Form 8879, IRS e-file Signature Authorization here: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=229&id=342095&Itemid=100114&lang=en

I noticed he blacked out all his deductions which means he could have made alot more wrote and it off. Also, I notice the returns are in the name of "Peter J", not "GENTLE MACHINE PRODUCTIONS" which is the company that would show how much revenue is earned from sales. I can own a business earning 5 million dollars per year and only pay myself $18,000 which is all that would show up on my personal tax return. So there is no telling how much was earned by the trademark owner of "the zeitgeist movement", "GENTLE MACHINES PRODUCTIONS". So he answered no questions, only tried to show off to the Zeitgeist Members who Peter Joseph has declared in a youtube video are poor. Of course everybody knows Neil Kiernan, Peter Josephs top puppet, is known as a huge internet beggar.

Here is a copy of Peter Josephs pointless tax forms: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/pincome0910

topic: PJ Merola Shows Tax Statements

Peter Joseph Merola, famous for engaging in a huge public fight with the Venus Project over donation money, released his 1040 Tax Return and a Form 8879, IRS e-file Signature Authorization as James Kush recently pointed out.

I noticed he blacked out all his deductions which means he could have made a lot more wrote and it off.  Also, I notice the returns are in the name of "Peter J", not "GENTLE MACHINE PRODUCTIONS" which is the company that would show how much revenue is earned from sales.  I can own a business earning 5 million dollars per year and only pay myself $18,000 which is all that would show up on my personal tax return.  So there is no telling how much was earned by the trademark owner of "The Zeitgeist Movement".  So Peter Joseph Merola answered no questions, only tried to show off to the Zeitgeist Cult Members who he has declared in a youtube video are poor. Of course everybody knows Neil Kiernan Stephenson's, Peter Joseph Merola's top puppet, is known as a huge internet beggar.

Here is a copy of Peter Joseph Merola's pointless tax forms if you would like to look into this further yourself.

He has started soliciting donations. He has his PayPal donation set up.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/torrents.html
"With the extreme cost of Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, and the interest to begin work on Zeitgeist: Beyond The Pale [2012/2013], I hesitantly now leave the option for open support of this free media distribution project.
~Peter Joseph"
How is this going to work? He is not a charity.
At least The Venus Project went through the steps to set up up an "officially recognized 501c-3 not for profit organization" to accept donations.

I also noticed yesterday he's selling his T-Shirts again [when I thought he stopped doing that] after his support page on the Zeitgeist Movement website was down totally blank after he took off all the Venus Project material off there that pointed out that TVP being a 501c-3 not for profit organization too:

Hello peeps,

Ater much thought and many observatons about the movement, I decided that I will slowly exit from most positons of responsibility I currently hold within TZM. This transiton will be spread though 2 months, and by the end of this year I shall be officially not holding the responsibilites clarified in detail below. If any of the mentoned task below aren't picked up by other volunteers I shall send all relevant passwords/logins/files/contacts to the most responsible person in the GCA, which is, in my humble opinion, Darr. I'm happy to explain my ratonale/reasoning for exitng from my responsibilites if asked in a private message, but, in general, the reason is a mixture of: disappointment; lack of progress; lack of collaboraton; power struggles; internal politcs; and not walking our own talk (especially within the realm of decision making) within TZM.

My current major responsibilites are:

*maintaining zeitgeistaustralia.org + developing it
*developing the zeitgeistaustralia2011 WordPress chapter theme
*hostng a few other chapter sites
*maintaining z-tabzilla + developing it
*coordinatng the Australian chapter
*assisng with chapter development and reviews in the Asia-Pacific region on behalf of the GCA
*Spirit of the Times magazine project
*Digital Development team coordination
*coordinatng the Movies that Mater Project in Australia
*organizing TZM Asia-Pacific meetings and maintaining records
*organizing TZM Australia meetngs and maintaining records
*developing the censorship protocol
*managing TZM Australia facebook and twiter
*actng as contact person for Australia
*also on my to-do list is to add z-tabzilla to tzmchapters.net

By the end of this year, I will formally leave the GCA, the coordinaton of the Asia Pacific region, and many of the
responsibilites that fall on Australian chapter coordinaton.

I shall be actvely seeking to hand over responsibilites to willing volunteers in the GCA, Asia Pacific, and Australia respectvely. Therefore my responsibilites startng from the new year will look as follows:

*maintaining zeitgeistaustralia.org
*hostng a few other chapter sites
*Spirit of the Times magazine project
*actng as contact person for Australia

From the new year onwards I will not be willing to pick up any new tasks or responsibilites. I shall contnue to uphold the above responsibilites untl either the view-count on zeitgeistaustralia.org drops down to ~50 views per day (currently its ~250) OR a new chapter administrator will step up - whichever happens first.

<jcjfdaia.jpg><fdbcec.jpg><bfchhfeb.jpg>

The responsibilites listed below are within the scope of the GCA, and I am offering them to (a) wiling GCA member(s); otherwise I shall close the project(s) and ask the team members to either become autonomous or disperse.

*developing the zeitgeistaustralia2011 WordPress chapter theme
*the Digital Development team management
*developing the censorship protocol
*managing z-tabzilla
*to add z-tabzilla to tzmchapters.net
In respect to other responsibilties I shall work to find a replacement person/people to fulfill these. If I have problems with this I will inform the GCA about it.

Pretty much agree with all that David, I feel the same way and have for a couple years now. I have tried to illicit change subtlety as we are all volunteers (etc.) but that does not excuse a job that needs to be done and is completely and totally not being done and excuses is just that.... excuses.

Infrastructure and proper development of global chapters to unite around the world as one voice was lost. I felt this long ago prior to Addendum being released and saw the writing on the wall and it had nothing period to do with Venus Project what so ever, although that was used as a bit of an excuse. The proper management team and structure needed to pull this together was simply not in place.

I could sense you David and I could sense Mato as well. I agree with you and it's been like pulling teeth to try to get a thought across. And it's been to know avail.

I have been disheartened with what could have been. And like I say this is before the release of Z 2. This is not new. It all comes down to management. If you don't want it (management) then don't expect results. You get what you pay for.

Cliff

Cliff - Would you like to create a document to describe the ideal "structure" you envision? While I understand the complaint(s) well, I'm not sure of the true feedback. I do agree with the "Job" notion but this is easier said than done and why I am see merit in a "smaller", protocol based initiative for activism. I could be wrong but the problem is direction and my hope is the new Orientation, coupled with some simple Chapter direction can set groups "in motion" in a way that avoids admin problems to which we have limited capacity. -Peter

Michael shared this two days ago:

http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/governanceModels
Saludos,
Andrés Delgado

Warning: long read ahead! M ake a cup of tea, grab some biccies, and pay close attention!! ;-)

Cheers for posting that article Andres - it provides some useful food for thought that I hope people will chew on :-)

As a basis for considering governance models the article was useful, although rather narrow in scope. Other governance models to consider may include, but not be limited to: direct democracy, consensus democracy, sociocracy, demarchy, panarchy, sortition and heterarchy. All of those can be looked up on Wikipedia for a quick overview. Bashing out the pros and cons of each model might prove a fruitful exercise for determining which model provides the most appropriate basis for our needs. From there onwards we may be able to develop a model that is specifically tailored to the RBEM. Currently our model is closer to a benevolent dictatorship with elements of feudalism than to anything else, sadly, and all is done to a highly unprofessional standard.

Two issues here stand out to me:

1. In order to select an appropriate governance model we need to clarify what kind of entity we are - i.e. Are we a movement or an organization. Currently TZM seems to have an identity crisis - marketing itself as a movement but trying to behave like an organization without the professionalism required to make that work. I think that once a choice is made there we can tailor our governance structure to suit.

2. Presumably if we are to walk our talk and be the change (any other over-used kitschy phrases I should chuck in there?) we should be implementing the governance model that would be used in the RBEM. In order to do this we need to clarify what it is. Thus far we haven't really done that - although I have attempted to raise the topic a couple of times in this group. If we aren't clear on the details of the RBEM economy, governance and culture we can't exemplify that which we wish to create (and yes... I know it is stated in brief, and speculated on ad infinitum all over the place... but there is no complete emergent design model). The system needs to be designed and clarified. Unfortunately Fresco's RBEM isn't a complete design - or at least there isn't a full design that I have been able to find either by myself or through asking around. I have seen complete systems designs from other organizations and nutted out the basics for the RBEM myself (I've attached the PPT slides that accompanied my presentation at the QLD systems design studio earlier this year - I've sent these out before but received no feedback - ironically I've received a lot of feedback outside of TZM and this has got us places). What I'd really like for us to do is clarify all of these and then start exemplifying our talk.

Okee - so - whatever this team decides to go ahead with I'm sure I'll have little influence. It seems to me that some here are more equal than others, and 2 have bailed (Jen & Jason), leading me to speculate that this is not a real core team at all as I am certain that they remain active and influential at the core. However, I see it as worth pointing out that Integrative Services, the organization I co-founded along with 5 other systems thinkers (3 PhD's and a shit-load of scientific publications between them humbles me massively! Our group is made up of: an architect-turned ethics-oriented systems designer; a geologist & marine biologist who works in environmental policy; the creator of the Carrying Capacity Dashboard; the creator of the world's first robust open-source knowledge repository; and another programmer... I'm the education guide and do a lot of front-of-house stuff as what I lack in technical expertise I make up for in communication skills when it comes to conveying the complexities to multi-level players...) has taken the time to come up with our governance model before rushing into operations. We started with a sociocratic model which leaves us room to breathe and work on our areas of expertise while coming together for consensus regarding major decisions (major defined as those which impact others - not just our own workflow). At present I'm beefing up the knowledge repository with some research into the various governance models. Once I've extracted and shaved up the data regarding pros and cons (need evidence weighted for reliability for each) it goes into the knowledge repository which crunches the weighted data and comes up with a suitable answer to the question asked - i.e. what is the most appropriate governance model for achieving xyz? I explain that stuff really basically because I really am not at all savvy about the techy side of the supercomputer :-P Anyways - the point is we took 6 months (with several 3-4 day-long residential marathon planing sessions) to come together and come up with a working model from which to develop. From there the original 6 co-founders were able to start connecting with others who are able to fill our skills-related gaps and assist us with the physical infrastructure to put our model in the petri-dish, so to speak.

I would have loved it if I had received more positive feedback from TZM regarding this as I previously felt that TZM should absolutely be involved in such ground-breaking projects. However, having received either no feedback or negative feedback (along the lines of "we're not ready so you can't do it") I settled for just getting on with what needs to be done at the pace I work at. I think it's past-time for TZM to really be able to be involved as the team don't take us seriously (they take me seriously as they've experienced working with me - but want nothing to do with TZM) due to our obviously malfunctioning half-baked system.

Anyways - regardless my obvious disenfranchisement with TZM and our current self-defeating structure I will share the model Integrative Services have been working with in order that this group can at least have some food for thought to take on board. You'll do with it what you will. Anyways - the following is the approach we've used for systems design and implementation:

T - Threats
I - Interests
M - Metaconstitution
E - Ethics
S - System/s
----------------------
P - Policy
S - Strategy
O - Operations

*The Threats stage involves collaboratively establishing consensus regarding what universal threats humanity faces. This seems pretty straightforward, but you'd be surprised (perhaps) to see how many discrepancies can arise due to worldviews that are not identical from one person to the next. Arguably TZM has made assumptions regarding these, but gone through no same-paging exercise.

*The Interests stage involves collaboratively establishing consensus regarding what universal interests humanity shares. Again, this seems pretty straightforward, but, again, you'd be surprised (perhaps) to see how many discrepancies can arise due to worldviews that are not identical from one person to the next. Arguably TZM has made assumptions regarding these, but gone through no same-paging exercise.

*The Metaconstitution stage is where it all starts to get really interesting. This stage involves "metaconstituting" in preparation for constituting - meaning consensus is attained regarding participatory principles such as appropriate rules of engagement, metacommunication, priorities-setting, etc. I can provide the working document we've developed for this upon request. TZM has not attempted this stage, instead making assumptions and setting some protocols and procedures, which are often broken by those who set them. I have attempted to address this with the GCA and global core, but to no avail.

*The Ethics stage forms the basis of a constitution, as, arguably, ethics must be the foundation of the principles of any system. Again, there may be assumed consensus regarding ethics, but it is an area where, in practice, many differences become evident and consensus isn't necessarily easy to reach and cannot be taken for granted. I occasionally mention this philosophical concept here in the core team, but it's never addressed.

*The System/s stage is, for me, the most fun part - designing a system (or "systems-corrective" measures to address threats and interests) based on all of the above. The system obviously has to address all universal threats and interests, and be rooted in ethics. With a working metaconstitution the design of this system will be possible to achieve via consensus, although this cannot be a rapid process and will forever be improved upon via the knowledge-repository feedback-loop. Now, TZM has not gone through this process at all, but adopted TVP's RBE, arguably without clear comprehension on the part of all involved - including Jacque Fresco - as to what the design of a whole system requires, and how to go about it. I fear we've been somewhat lazy in taking this all for granted, and have attempted to address the need for same-paging the system with this core team... again to no avail.

OKee.... so I guess that's a lot of information for now, but there's more....

*The Policy stage refers to what happens after the systems design - i.e. designing appropriate policies to ensure that the system can function from a philosophical and governance perspective. This is the stage many reformist groups that exist to address flaws in our political system are at. It is a vital step, but should not be approached as sewing on a patch, instead being only really useful once the T -> S stuff has been addressed. TZM tends to gloss over the need for this, misunderstanding policy as partisan politics and governance... and replacing it with nothing really...

*The Strategy stage refers to planning the logistics of how the required process and infrastructure, etc, of a system could be transitioned toward and implemented. Again, TZM misses this stage, rather blurring what is needed or just being vague, not recognizing this as a step at all or just "leaving it up to the experts" like TVP, who haven't been through this stage either.

*The Operations stage refers to the actual infrastructure - the design and implementation of whatever is needed - both in the techy and non-techy senses. TZM are not at this stage and do not consider that we are capable (although PJ perhaps has some ambitious plans for the Global Redesign Institute - presumably to redeem the Movement post-TVP by showing them "we can do it too"?), leaving it, generally, to TVP - who are almost entirely functional at this level despite having left out most of the preceding stages (meaning that the likelihood of them having "the right answer" is slim and largely based on chance).

Okee - so I guess it's pretty apparent that most established institutions of society are operating at the P-S-O levels, and not appealing to anything from the T-I-M-E-S levels, meaning that they keep failing to make meaningful change due to having not addressed the most fundamental stages. This is what Fresco means when he refers to "patchwork", although he makes the same mistake himself.

Anyways... where am I going with all this? Well I'd like to see this process incorporated into a Wiki so that anyone joining such a project can actually go through these stages at their own pace, in collaboration. A Wiki provides a platform for engagement of this sort that doesn't hold back those who have already collaboratively completed parts of the journey whilst facilitating an un-rushed staged journey for newcomers through the gate. It also provides a vital feedback loop, meaning that we don't have to treat the process as linear, constantly refining each stage based on what comes up from its subsequent stages, and so on. in what I call an "Integrity Challenge" (see third attachment for stages of integrity development" - would love some feedback on that, as well as the other 2 docs).

Okee... I think I've talked enough for one day and have work to get back to...

Looking forward to some feedback/questions/engagement emerging from all of the above.

Cheers & take care,

> > Is there anything I can announce on a show that would help you out?
> it may help out if you would announce that we need a coordinator for our
> Digital Development Group as well as a Project organizer for a Wordpress
> theme development for a chapter website template that looks like this->
> zeitgeistaustralia.org.
>
> That theme is currently used by Zeitgeist Kazakhstan and Zeitgeist Syria
> and 2 other chapters, and these chapters (and others that will install
> it) may need updates that are needed to the theme.
>
> You may also announce that we need someone to write us a
> protocol/course-of-action plan for chapters being censored, since Syria
> is currently censored by their own government

Ok David. I will announce those things. Is there anyone I can point them to to address those issues or aparticular email address for them to 'go to' so to speak?

Thanks,
James Phillips
TZM Education
www.tzmeducation.org
Tel: 07733135186

Cool. Please reffer peeps to David Z (Or Arts Fantasy)
my email is:
david@thezeitgeistmovement.com will do best

cheers!

Very sorry to hear. I have banged my head against the perpetual infighting and bullshit for 5 years on a scale I think many can't even begin to understand. This is why my motto has become a "self-generating" activism where people and groups learn about the train of thought and then follow a course of reasoning to make it happen, without a need to constantly reference some "global group" or the like. Some chapters have and continue to be a great success. Others not.

To me: TZM is a worldview for change- not an institution or chapter. As I stated in my prior broadcast, as much as everyone is an armchair expect on such a platform, it takes many many years to get a working order right in this medium... part of which is largely undiscovered.

Frankly, TZM is biggest, most annoying pain in the ass I have ever experienced - but it is also the most profound, necessary and to be sought after "institution" i can imagine. Rather than make a declaration about "joining" or "leaving", why don't we simply adjust to our comfort level and drop such declarations.

I spent a lot of time trying to organize - only to called a "leader" - so I backed off for 2 years- and things only got worse. I am stepping up now, in all my imperfection, to get shit done as best I can, to set the stage for a new level. Then I will back away again, to see if things take hold.

TZM can be really simple. really simple. and I think many simply turn it into something it is not, sadly and then get disillusioned by standards that are simply not in the cards in this circumstance.

And believe it or not - compared to other .orgs for change in this context, TZM is still WAY above. I'm sorry if people are not satisfied by the "organization". I see great merit in removing, if you will, the "global" organization for the most part where this work becomes autonomous.
P

Hi Peter and Z team,

Here is a letter that went out a while back 2010 (just below this) and sums up my thoughts on this. I have sent out many numerous letters over the last couple years addressing this, so this would be frustrating to me.

It is not the first time I have mentioned infrastructure in an email to try to address this. But at a point one will give up when it seems to not be getting through.

I will say that I believe that one main key to success is to streamline the movements activities so that it becomes universal and streamlined in it's approach on a global scale, ie: McDonalds restaurants are the same working model in all countries so that the success is guaranteed for all. Amway sells it's products the same way world wide using a developed system that becomes simply a "turn-key" system that anyone can quickly use from day one. New "members" have access to a tried and tested strategy that they can be assured will work because they have been successful in the past for many others. An IKEA store in Vancouver will look just like an IKEA store anywhere else in the world. http://www.ikea.com/ Choose you location. Success is in simplicity.

I hate these companies. But the point I am trying to make is that we needed to create a stream lined "simple" approach that worked everywhere the same. I believed prior to Z 3 that we needed to create a working model to empower new excited and motivated individuals to best succeed with their new chapter in their city. The excitement, motivation and desire was there for these new "recruits" in the early days. But left to flounder, failure was inevitable. I don't think that a 'let everybody just do it themselves and some will do better then others' approach is the right one.

We needed a strong teamspeak " education and building strategy " by-weekly call. Something that would leave people excited and motivated when done. Instead the calls were mostly negative and dealt with negative chapter activities.

I believe Peter, that your weekly blog talk radio (with questions) was one perfect thing that we had going. Those were outstanding.

If this is going to be done right I believe that we need a model system for city chapters to use as a guide and then build from there. Yes chapters can do more when they get established, but a defined starting point (job criteria) is crucial. Something that defines a city chapter so that people in or starting a chapter can say what a chapter actually does. A chapter needs to know exactly what their role is so that they can create it and define themselves through it. This will create the long term anchor by which a chapter will build from. This defining role needs to be universal through ALL chapters in all countries so that a global connection is made and ALL chapters will feed off of all this activity. This activity then needs to be the focal point of the motivational chapter "teamspeak" meetings for chapter development and also this global activity needs to be documented for other chapters and the public at large to see via the main global portal website.

I am sure that much of this might be lost in translation and misunderstood, but one last thing that I spoke against was the creation of the "leaderless" or "no ones in charge" organization. We need leaders, organizers, strategizers, communicators and facilitators that will oversee a smooth operation. We basically have/had this but the problem was saying that we don't. If we said nothing about being "leaderless" from the start then no one would have question it to begin with. But as soon as one says that we have no leaders, then that opens the door to a constant barrage of criticisms that are not warranted or needed. We, as a group, spend more time defending our "Leaderless position" (which is not true to begin with) then just getting the job done. We need structure and structure comes from people known as leaders, organisers, facilitators etc. that have experience and can provide the guidance for others to follow. I don't need to define these terms to any of you, ie "leader" as we all know what we are talking about and no one would question it if we left it alone. But when you open up a can of worms and say "leaderless" organisation and then offer ANY aspect of leadership, you are bound to get an onslaught of negative feedback from many that will hold you to that statement. I have seen this as a major issue early on with chapters and individuals looking to cause trouble and there was no need for this to be an issue. It took up a lot of wasted time early on.

Peter, your hard work and efforts are continually astounding. A lot of people globally have worked really hard and put in many tireless hours and for the most part the work of great people, that have gone through the movement, has not connected. I believe that this is because it has been a "wild west" structure to date. To scattered and farfetched in any geographical layout to really have a solid impact. I also believe that we are missing out on great, ground breaking scenarios as many things or ideas are falling through the cracks due to this lack of infrastructure. For all intense and purposes we need a pyramid structure that begins with the Zeitgeist Global Movement as the first and foremost starting point for a growing organization and community. After all it says, "Join the movement". The movement needs to be solidly defined for both individuals that want to start chapters and those that simply want to connect with the idea.

Sorry, my main problem is probably trying to get all this across in one paragraph is not possible. I realize that my letters are long winded. I am sure the points are lost at some level.

Below is my letter sent out in October 2010. It's dated but I reread it and I don't think it has changed in my thinking. I think that a smaller, tighter version would work.

I re watched Addendum the other night and it was amazing to feel that same feeling again since it was a while since I watched it last. This tight strategy of structure that I feel we need is not simply reflective of a "big" corporation or organization only, but what I feel would give a "small" start up organization the ability to grow into a large one. No matter how it's looked at, a "global" organisation will need massive structure to get a foot hold. Not difficult to set up structure but tight and effective structure. But like any successful company or organization, the right people have to be in place or its all for not.

Cliff

Hi Z Group

As per our TeamSpeak I would like to bring forward some issues that I feel will bring the Zeitgeist Movement to the next level.

The most important issue to address is movement infrastructure. At this point it is critical.

A solid infrastructure will drive the movement and take it to the highest levels. This infrastructure should be the vehicle that creates solid, seamless, effortless chapter growth and development. It should provide a flowing system by which new members to the movement can easily maneuver effortlessly finding both a way to get further involved or to further educate themselves or to simply learn more about the movement.

No one should come to the site and be left with a dead end or worse, come to the site and have no one to turn to for questions or information on a given subject.

My concern is that with the third movie near ready this lack of infrastructure will only further widen many disconnected attributes of the current model. Any immediate explosion of growth will be left floundering.

Heading into the next movie/year with NO solid infrastructure model in place, all current "bugs" in the system will feed off of our current structure (or lack of) and bring it down. Like a virus, the negatives will spread just as fast as the positives.

BUT, with a tight infrastructure solidly cementing the foundation of the movement, many of the "bugs" will simply fall away and system issues such as negative inputs from outside organizations will have no real foot hold by which to materialize in any relevant nature.

A solid infrastructure must start at the top. The worldwide Zeitgeist Movement website.

This should be the sole hub of all activity on a worldwide scale.

Need a library of further education? Go here.

Need to find the local chapter in your own city? The search should start here.

Need to find development tools or strategies for your own new chapter? These will be easily accessed here.

Anyone around the world should be able to find what they are looking for here. This should be the starting point.

From here the next chapters would be country chapters and each country would then build and develop local town and city chapters. These town and city chapters are the most important chapters as they are the only ones where people can actively get involved and physically be hands on with events and other activities. From chapter member Bbqs and coffee shop meetings to larger street activism and holding open lectures, all these types of events bring members together and foster community growth. If you build it they will come but if you don't build it they will just go away.

I recently had a discussion with an individual from New Orleans who is making a trip to Vancouver shortly to join us on the street. He said that he was part of the Louisiana Chapter and was from New Orleans. I asked him why he had not started a New Orleans chapter. He said that there was not much happening there and that he was waiting for it to grow before starting a chapter up. I asked him how he expected it to grow or where that growth would come from, if there were no indicators in place for people living in New Orleans that there were others like him who also were just "waiting" for growth to happen. There is probably hundreds that have seen the movies living in New Orleans and many that would love to get involved with a local chapter. But it doesn't exist and so they turn away. He quickly started a Facebook "Zeitgeist New Orleans" chapter as a way for others to now contact him and get that ball rolling. His Facebook page has since been added to the Louisiana Chapter site. A dedicated website for New Orleans will shortly follow after my meeting with him here in Vancouver.

Bottom line.... growth can now happen.

This same model recently happened in Las Vegas, Anchorage, Hampton and Pensacola Florida.

Pensacola unfortunately is an invisible chapter as there is no link connecting them to the rest of the Zeitgeist world. I have asked them to contact the Florida chapter to link it to the front page of that state site. He was going to get back to me with that outcome. It is important that these city chapters become the focus point on the websites as this is where we want people to go. This is how the movement will gain momentum by individuals joining a local chapter and creating synergy.

This email came to me last week with regards to the Miami chapter....

"That guy doesn't answer emails and doesn't work with us thoroughly so us as a chapter gave up on the Florida zeitgeist site. On a better note we are an official club at one of Miami's biggest universities Florida International University we are call "Future by Design @ FIU" and will be using the university theaters and tools to host many different events and gain membership."

Can you sense the frustration in his voice?? These guys are working so hard but the infrastructure is not there and they are caught in the middle. And we are just a SMALL organization. How will growth effect these situations on a larger scale This will not serve to build momentum.

So this is where it needs to start. At the main website of the Zeitgeist Movement. Having multiple sites will get confusing and lead to a breakdown.

The next very important system infrastructure is "TEAMS".

Real teams to make these things happen.

Currently teams exist as a "TeamSpeak" channel with individuals randomly coming and going with no real sense of direction. These are not the teams we need. We need to create dedicated teams to handle job duties in an efficient and ongoing manner. We need to "hire" people (so to speak) to fill these positions and to be accountable to the outcome of these positions and the duties that they entail.

A team should not be random but rather a "hired" position based on talents that these individuals would possess for the job.

Teams can range from 1 to 5 people depending on the situation and positions for these teams would only come available if someone leaves that position or someone proves inefficient holding that position and would then be removed. Then a new person could be put in that new position within that team.

Like any large, growing organization looking to double or triple in a short time, we need tight and effective teams to fulfill duties in a quick and effective manner. Random "teams" of individuals coming and going on TeamSpeak with no commitment to outcomes or schedules will not in anyway serve to create the type of infrastructure that will benefit short term and long term growth.

We need to put out a "job placement" notice and solicit individuals for these positions and these positions need to be filled.

Selected candidates would need to be committed to these duties.....

Completely volunteer position.
Provide past work to show competence and abilities in given subject / team. Must be committed to structure of team. ie: effectively complete duties or tasks in a timely manor. Be self sufficient and self reliant to accomplish the given tasks of the team. Work as a team player with others in the same team.

Again, these would not be random, free for all positions, but dedicated spots for "hire" that would be filled and then accepted as a "position" within the company/movement.

For instance, a dedicated team to handle complaints like the Miami one. This is all they would do.

Or a dedicated Website Development Team would consist of say 5 people.

This would be one of the more important and immediate teams as they would be solely responsible for the development of chapter websites around the world. And as chapters around the world are the "building blocks" and foundation for the growth of the movement..... making sure that they are up and running quickly and effortlessly would be of utmost importance.

Under the main Zeitgeist website would be the "chapters" section to be easily found. In this section would be a link to a page to contact the Website development team. Once someone emails that Development Team with a question they should be assured that they will receive a response with in 24 hours and that they will have their situation taken care of. The development team can assist individuals with questions about their website or they can help in the creation of the website or completely design the website from scratch.

For example:

In the TeamSpeak meeting yesterday it was brought to our attention that there were some very enthusiastic individuals looking to start a state chapter within their country. (I don't recall the country) But they had reached a road block. No one to help them. Road blocks won't move the movement forward.

They had the desire to get their website up and running but they lacked the web design creation needed to put up an actual website. They had hung out a few times in the "development" TeamSpeak channel but nothing came from that. There was also NO other way for them to contact someone to help them. No direct means to reach some "help".

Again it is these new chapters that will be the foundation growth of the movement and they are priority ONE to develop and get up and running smoothly and effectively.

After getting a chapter up and running would be the next priority step of "chapter development". Many excited and enthusiastic individuals will be filled with energy and commitment at the start with their chapters but if a strong system of tools and on going support is not in place then the energy will petter out and they will die out.

So these development and support teams must be in place and they must be effective and committed to their positions and their duties. Random "hobby" teams should not be part of the infrastructure of the main movement and the dedicated teams that ARE the infrastructure of the main movement should not act or be perceived as a hobby team.

Dedicated Z teams should have their own meeting times on TeamSpeak by which to analyze themselves and learn and grow and continually work to become more efficient.

So we need to fill these teams with a "hiring" mentality and we need hold these teams to account or change the position of a non-responsive team or individual. That is called hiring and firing.

So to break it down....

We need to create infrastructure.

The main website "Zeitgeist Movement" should be the worldwide hub of all movement related activity. This would include educational material, chapter development and news etc.

As examples yesterday I used Amway and Tupperware as multi national organizations that have a tight infrastructure. You can access the world on their website and tools for development and procedures are right there on the website easy to find. Two other companies that were mentioned were MaryKay and Avon. These are also very easy sites to maneuverer. They are massive organizations with millions of "members" yet they flow with extreme ease and accessibility throughout their world wide structures.

From The main Zeitgeist site you would branch out to countries. Which would include a dedicated US website. This infrastructure is not there currently and so you are seeing a lack of growth. The US has no forum and is piggy backing on the world wide forum. It is confusing and messed up. By creating a US site to funnel the US population into their own chapter and not being hoarded with members worldwide will see a more dedicated and focused layout that will start to take on it's own shape and begin to make sense to people in the US so that they can begin to "build" a dedicated Zeitgeist USA. This way their OWN mentality that is uniquely theirs (like all countries) will begin to take shape and massive growth will sweep the US.

All countries should have their own dedicated websites.

From here the MAJOR objective of all countries around the world is to provide a Zeitgeist environment that is unique to their country but contains all the major fundamentals of the movement.

The most important aspect of the country chapters is to create, develop and maintain effective city and town chapters.

So this model sees:

ONE: The main Zeitgeist Movement website.

This site is the hub of all worldwide activity and development procedures.

TWO: The country chapters.

The country chapters would provide information for their local environment within their country providing information with their own flair including tools in their own language, video's of activities and the country chapter would also be the first step for a local chapter to go in receiving assistance in all stages of development or inter-chapter conflicts or other needs.

THREE: The local town or city chapter. The most important chapter. Here the people, the public, the world can get involved. A screening. A meeting. A lecture. Street action or a large community festival. This is where people will join and be hands on. This is what will be the growth and foundation of the movement. The local chapters.

This is also the ONLY place where the community at large will make the connection with the Zeitgeist Movement as a local community group. It is here where it will be removed from the world wide web and become a local presence of like minded individuals. As a system collapses this local connection within the community will become more and more vital for people of the community to have that presence, comfort and group synergy. Connected people working together.

FOUR: I left out one group of chapters but I want to acknowledge them here. This would be an in between group that would funnel people from any given country chapter to that countries town and city chapters. This would be the "state" or "Provincial" chapters within that country. It would seem that many have missed the concept of "local city" chapters. Not realizing the power of these city chapters and the need to put immediate focus on these most important city chapters first. Instead, more larger chapters have been created that are in themselves empty and void of actual activity and involvement. An individual can no more participate in an active "state" or "provincial" chapter then they can participate in a "country" chapter. Only localized can an individual fully participate hands on within a chapter.

Where a "state" or "provincial" chapter can be effective is if the size of the country or the population of the country would be such that breaking it down one more level would make sense. The US is such a country. California is as large as Canada in population and has many large cities. Having a state chapter in this scenario makes total sense. The state chapter coordinators would then be in charge of city chapter development and funnelling important "head office" information throughout the state down to it's local city chapters.

In Canada we have left out Provincial chapters altogether as they would only serve to duplicate the same information and create yet another forum for which people would need to sign up on. To many forums, sites and diluting of people's energies. We instead used the provinces simply as a gateway to direct access to the city and town chapters. So in Canada we go from Country to City. In the US you go from Country to state to city. In the end the idea is to funnel people to a localized "home" chapter with the fewest clicks possible.

Also city chapters should not exist as a "forum" thread on any given country website if there is someone willing to work an actual chapter. This defeats the whole purpose of providing a "physical" means by which people can join face to face a local chapter. It only takes one person to start a chapter locally and a Facebook page can be a great local way to let people know of street action, lectures and meetings etc. in that area. Providing a Facebook link of a local chapter will be more effective then a forum thread on the country site. And as that chapter grows a dedicated website would soon follow. Having their Facebook or website then placed front and centre on their country site (or state / province site) will make accessing it very easy.

This infrastructure doesn't need to take forever to get done. In fact can be started very quickly. But an initial team needs to begin the process and layout the map.

We are long past the point of "needing" such an infrastructure to be in place. And dangerously close to it being to far behind with the upcoming year looming just months away. We need to act on this infrastructure model asap and begin placement of these dedicated teams.

The main website doesn't need to changed drastically (at least at this point) but a good over haul to update it and bring in the initial structures and teams for chapter growth will serve well as a starting point at this important stage. All "teams" don't need to be fully operational at this point as well either. But creating initial teams will also create a great model and learning gauge for the future setup of teams.

There will be a real surge of activity when the movie is released and this will be followed by a Z Day just months away. Certain things need to be in place to effectively handle this growth. Also to counter negatives that will arise and to nurture this growth into even bigger growth.

It is not really a big deal to create this infrastructure, it is just about having the right people and the right model and then things can build around that.

If we agree on this being a need then we can start there and create some initial teams.

Team one: Website development for both main site up keep and chapter website building and assistance.

Team two: Chapter development. Setting up a template for chapters to work from that will answer most questions about setting up a chapter. Also, providing chapter tools and creating "projects" like Z Day for chapters to work on.

Team three: Language team to transfer all information to languages for all chapters to understand.

I can start reformatting the main site to clean it up and provide the chapter guide and tools section within as well. I currently have time to do this.

Cliff

Cliff - I really appreciate the time you've spent communicatng all of this, and feel awful about it having been ignored. Certainly if I had been a recipient of the original message I would have embraced your attude. What you wrote has, indeed, been prophetc as precisely the problems you predicted are haunting us now. It's also quite telling that of the original recipients of that message 2 are no longer actve within the formal structure of TZM, preferring to operate outside of this model we have created (Mato & Thunder/Greg) and another 1 (David) is bowing out gracefully as we type. This should tell us something about the extent to which they've been listened to by the other recipients when they've raised valid points for consideraton.

Anyways - Cliff - I wonder if it's of any use to consider the attached Transition Towns document with regard to maintaining a tight ship with chapters TT have learnt the hard way and are now really tightening up their criteria for officializing new initiatives - that is their equivalent of our chapters and project teams. One point of great interest to me is that they now require interested parties to form a steering group of at least 5 people before they can apply (this takes some initiative on the part of the first person/people that is certainly a healthy reflection of their chances of success), and at least 2 of those must be willing and able to attend a training course in person. This seems to me to be an excellent filtering process and it is doing them the world of good in terms of ensuring they're only working with the most committed and engaged groups..

Anyways - the doc is attached for your perusal, not intended to be copied but just learnt from as we are not TT, and have some different requirements and a very different (optimal - once extant) structure. Approaching things in this way certainly wouldn't solve all our problems - it just came to me that it could at least be useful for chapters/teams, and I've had it kicking around for a while whilst I've been considering a major overhaul of the way we do things here in Australia.

BTW - is there any special reason why we organize chapters by country? Being that we advocate a borderless society I have always found it somewhat odd and prefer to function at the macro level with an international network. Beyond that I only really see the value in project-oriented teams, only some of whose work would be restricted to local on-the-ground level. Anyways - happy to expand on that point if anyone has the interest to pursue it.

I have written and re-written a proper reply a few times. But i think the most basic truth will do.

David:

Thank you for your time and dedication. I have communicated one and another in private to you in the last weeks. Our cooperation was tight in the beginning, faded over the course of time. But i wish you the best of luck with your goals..

Cliff:

As i have allways said, ive understood your whole message since the first message. I have allways asked you to step forward more and be a more active part of the GCA to help this process. The latter just does not happen. In my absence ive also not seen anything happen. You are a great Coordinator and a part of this movement a lot of people can take an example of. While you might have your own dissapointments in me or anyone else in the TZM Core/ GCA. The only dissapointment i have had is that you did not take it a step further. Perhaps a lack of time or other reasons, its never too late though. So let me know if you want to make a plan.

Karin:

I have not really worked with you a lot, since i have been back i have been carefully looking at your work in the movement as far as my sight goes. One one hand, im very gratefull for the GCA tasks you have been fulfilling. Some communication to Chapters has been great and you have put a lot of effort in. Thank you for this part.

On the other hand, with your current understanding and behavior you were not(yet?) a correct add to the GCA team. Also in the replies in this email chain, you make a ton of assumptions.. on matters you have no or incomplete knowledge about. Never a smart thing to do. I have not included examples, to keep the reply as drama free as possible. Feel free to ask for any clarification in private. For the remainder of the time you are involved with the GCA, do not include any negative vibe/feedback to Chapters as with Malaysia today. Your own feeling of being fed up with something doesnt have to be communicated to potentially enthusiastic volunteers.

To all:

What are we doing guys? in allmost 4 years of TZM, i have seen so much drama pass. Most of it due to a lack of understanding or misunderstanding what it is we are aiming to do. I have been dissapointed with fingerpointing at either Peter or myself or any of the other original GCA or Core members. We have taken a LOT more crap than we deserve.

I am far from perfect, but i have dedicated an amount of time and effort that is only exceeded by Peter, and for all the wrongs some of you talk me to be, my team (GCA) is the only team that has been consistently an active and successful part of the movement. With my return, i want to expand on that. We need "leadership" of some kind. And any big achievements internally so far have been accomplished by people standing up, leading the way.

Im stepping up again, seen little happened between absence and return. I dont want to work with people that have a constant negative vibe around them, if you think anything and everything is wrong with the movement. Perhaps reconsider why your here. We slowly progress luckily, and at some point i hope you will start seeing this.

Gil

Gilbert, I have tried to handle things as professional as possible. I am quite staggered by your statements here. <The only disappointment i have had is that you did not take it a step further.> When I am completely and totally unable to move in any way because I have zero access to anything hands on and have to go through you to get anything across, I am quite literally at a complete road block. I have every single email saved that I have sent to you saying that - given the go ahead I will start immediately to get a job done - and have every single time received an empty promise then ZERO action to move on it.

I have sent you so many letters about things that I was willing to do and ready to do (read below this letter from 2010: "I can start reformatting the main site to clean it up and provide the chapter guide and tools section within as well. I currently have time to do this." ) This letter below and my many numerous other letters received ZERO response from you. Every time I stated an action that I was completely willing to take immediately if given the means to do so, I would have done it immediately. But the complete lack of response from you and the constant excuses left me utterly breathless.

But this was ALL I could do because I received absolutely nothing back from you or just empty promises and commitments. It has been absolutely frustrating and discouraging trying to deal with you and some have voiced openly but I tried to work it as professional as I could.

When every single time I could move around you and do what I could with out needing global website access or global backend, I went completely to work, from doing up every state chapter website that was still needing to be done and numerous global chapter websites including the Z Festival site for chapters planning an event etc. Anything that I could do around you WAS COMPLETELY DONE and done quickly and efficiently. But to grow the movement it needed to ALL come from the Global Top of the Pyramid to be effective and at this level I received a constant and solid road block every single time. You are delusional to lay blame and have not proven to be the leader that a young growing movement needs to move forward. Proof is in the pudding and the blame game and passing the buck does not make for a healthy growing environment. I have listen to many in the past and agreed with pretty much all of them but kept my mouth shut trying to just be persistent and sticking to the long haul. But the frustration just keeps mounting and the downfall is all around us and still you blame and pass the buck.

Bottom line is I saw extremely early on and very quickly that you were not the person for the job and that the abilities needed to manoeuvre a new and growing movement were not something you processed.

<but i have dedicated an amount of time and effort that is only exceeded by Peter> Nice pat on the back but.... There is a big difference between amount of time and quality time. I have seen no quality time from you. <in allmost 4 years of TZM, i have seen so much drama pass> You need to look in the mirror and ask "why?" It's because the leadership is just not there and I can absolutely guarantee that nothing will change if it continues this way.

I am sorry but that is the most insulting response I have ever received and after all the time and commitment trying to get through I have just had enough. Please remove me immediately, I will follow David and I am done.

The solutions are walking out the door while the problem remains.

Thank you.

Cliff

Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless[1][2] and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Just to add a little context - we've been networking with a number of other systems design groups - most notably Quest 2025 and Priocracy, which are so similar to RBE it's not funny. Very refreshing I must say - when you can talk to academics running institutes and all's they can say is "yeah - absolutely", nodding along to everything you mention, and nothing really has them going "but...what about...?"!

Anyways - coming to my point - the point is, when we're communicating with academics and \ intellectuals - those with whom we may at some point wish to collaborate, or at least establish a healthy reputation among, we need to be able to communicate in terms on their level - i.e. a whole systems approach. Therefore, the definition of the RBE becomes more complex than what we talk about with Joe Public and what's on the website FAQs, etc. Also more complex than anything I've seen in any of our TZM team lectures. I think we need to have these conversations if we are to hope to reach the next level in our communication and development with the outside world.

Basically, if a system is defined as an interaction of a number of elements or components that necessarily must interact in a symbiotic manner then the greater question becomes "what are these components?", and "is the system independent, or nested within another?"

The second question is easier to answer - of course all man-made systems are nested within Mother Nature's (I hope no one minds my hippy-ish reference to mumsy in these terms - just a lifetime of such habit is hard to break!) system - i.e. the ecosystem - and therefore everything that takes place is subject to M other Nature's laws and the system cannot be sustainable unless it operates in accordance with these laws. To me this means Mother Nature is the only dictator I will accept ;-) and that she doesn't come to the negotiating table no matter how much we may want her to ;-) So - acting within the carrying capacity of our landbase (not just in arrogant human population terms, but with the recognition of all symbiotic elements of M other Nature's system, as that is the only method that is realistic) is the bottom line for sustainability, and the scientific method of inquiry is our tool for understanding how to do this. I guess all this is obvious, right?

So - onto the next point - what are the components of a system? This one may be a little harder to answer, and lemme give a hint - it's nothing to do with tech - tech is just tools to make components function more efficiently, but needs to run in accordance with our carrying capacity with the recognition that all resources are finite and cannot be recycled indefinitely unless the laws of thermodynamics turn out to be wrong - or unless there is a gaping hole in scientific understanding that needs to be filled regarding how to harness spent energy (hmmmm - I'm not into the free energy discussions that go on in some circles within the Movement....). Anyways - I digress too soon... it's not about technology, but about the technical structure of a sustainable system - technological and technical NOT being synonymous.

Back to the point - what are the components of a system? I tend to think of the components as being 3-fold (not meaning to allude, by accident, to Steiner's social threefolding approach in which he identifies economy, rights - or politics, and culture as the 3 "spheres" of a system - I only recently found out that Steiner's systems outline is similar to my own understanding, although the actual nuts n bolts of it are quite different). By this I mean that there are 3 driving forces of a system - the economic system, the governance structure, and the harmonious cultural values system. When these 3 forces are working in symbiosis with one another we have a sustainable system that remains within the carrying capacity of our landbase and nurtures that which nurtures us.

So - if it is agreed (which it may not be, but I have yet to find academics who fundamentally disagree) that these 3 factors are what makes up a system, then 2 more questions arise. 1 - what is the nature and process of each of these elements in the RBEM (I like a reasonable level of detail, which is necessary when we converse with academics and intellectuals who obviously find the FAQ stuff simplistic and lacking in depth (of course - it's just an FAQ) - not just contrast with the current system)? 2 - How can it be demonstrated that these elements, as defined within any particular model, are sustainable or likely to be sustainable? As a teaser, I identify the economic model as functioning in terms of landbase management (Murray Lane's Carrying Capacity Dashboard may prove useful in measuring this), providing equitable resource access (this is where the non-monetary trade-free bit comes in), and interconnected (world without borders, etc); the governance structure as necessarily scientifically managed (not politically lobbied), non-coercive, and equitable (participatory and decentralized); and the sociocultural harmony bit as being rooted in an ethics based value system, with internal dynamics facilitating a healthy macro-culture, and a constantly evolving critical thinking system of inquiry and development. There is a lot more depth that could be attained regarding the description of all of these elements and sub-elements, how they function, how they are maintained, and how they could be transitioned to. I don't have all the answers there, and am hoping to gather some collective intelligence here.

Anyways - I can elaborate much more if anyone would like me to - I have a 2hr presentation tailored to systems design-oriented groups that deals with the elements of a sustainable symbiotic system that works pretty well, and could talk about the subject for hours without getting bored (I iz nerd...) :-P Just let me know if you'd like more to chew on in response ;-) That's probably enough for now, and hopefully I've finally clarified the level and depth of discussion I think we should be engaging in here! :-)

Cheers,

Just wondering, are you asking these questions for yourself? Or do you know the answers but you feel they need to be explained and written/published more clearly for the public? If it's the latter, then we can work on a more structured document, but for the purpose of discussion I will offer my 2 cents for what it's worth. ;)

Idk about the "Earth Economy" thing. I like it as an explanation or alternative term, but I don't think we should necessarily go about 'switching' to any one term; I think "RBE" works fine. (On a side note which stuck out to me personally, but everyone may not feel this way... I think relying solely on the plain & simple term "Earth Economy" bears a similarity to Earth Ships, and "Earth"-everything-else, and we may, in some cases, forgo the opportunity to actually explain what it is if people assume they already know.)

>How do we avoid the bias in the governance that comes from culture by people who are razed in the same culture?<

I don't understand the question. Are you asking how we avoid bias of decision-making processes, and of people with leadership roles (i.e. scientists) in the RBE, who were raised in the RBE? Or are you asking how we avoid bias of people who were raised in the monetary system? If by "bias that comes from culture," you are referring to bias that comes from any culture, at all, then I'm not understanding the source of, or nature of, the supposed bias in the RBE.

>Credentials - how these are evaluated/granted in RBEM?<

I could be wrong, but with the obvious exception of dramatically improved educational materials (field trips/exploration, hands-on, available computers & gadgets, etc.) and processes in general, I see no reason why it should be all that different from the steps we use today. No one needs their credentials to obtain a "job" and earn a living, so the students' only desire should be to learn and be good at what they do, and there should be no incentive to simply "pass the test" to be accepted by society. From my understanding, we don't plan to eliminate processes for establishing that someone knows what they're doing before being allowed to operate on someone, or modify the components of a public transportation system. And no one should want to, unless they want to risk harming other people for no logical reason. I imagine there will still have to be some sort of testing and or qualification process, which could be automated.

>How we can not be perceived as hypocrites when we advocate a system that has never been proven
to work (agreeably there is a lot suggesting that it would, but that's not how science works) and at
the same time advocate the scientific method?<

I don't buy that. When scientists test a product, they don't test 7 billion of them, they only test one (or some limited number) and then they mass produce it if it works. Same goes for the components of the RBE (food production, housing, transportation, etc.) that make up the global RBE. If a maglev train goes from A to B, then we can deduce that with the appropriate measurements we can construct one that will go from A to Z. That's from a technical standpoint. From an economical standpoint (and this is the kicker, IM O), people claim that we haven't tested/proven this central computer system and/or decision-making process, but the fact of the matter is that with the right information, we can "arrive at" more intelligent decisions even now </i.>, than we can with a market system. Having accurate surveys of the Earth's resources and of everyone's input would just make it all that much more accurate and efficient. Nobody ever "tested" the market system and everyone uses that without any arguments; it just evolved out of necessity, and now we are evolving into something new because we can. If anything you could argue that other civilizations before us (i.e. Native Americans) have already proven that sharing works and hence they didn't fight amongst each other in their own tribes, and enjoyed their own versions of "abundance," while all of the wars (over land, resources, etc.) combined with our disregard for the planet, have proven that the market doesn't - assuming that the goal is to preserve life and the values that sustain it.

>How do we address the argument of previous similar movements/systems that have failed? ( like the Icarians)<

I'm not aware of any similar M ovements, and while this is the first I'm hearing of the Icarians, I can see at first glance that it's not even close. The most obvious differences are that their M ovement took place in the 19th century, so technological abundance (on the scale we are advocating) wasn't even a possibility, and their political structure "consisted on one president who was elected annually, and four officers each in charge of finance, farming, industry and education. Prospective members of the community were admitted by a majority vote of adult males." (There they go with that darn voting again... ;) "This was after the prospective member had lived in the society for four months and pledged $80." (There they go with that money again...) Members were required to forfeit all of their property." Ok, really?? :P

>Chapters often speak about "furthering the cause" or "planing for the future" but what are we exactly doing apart from spreading awareness about ourselves and some of the problems of today system? Or is the movement expecting for a RBEM to evolve somehow from spreading education alone? and if that's true - how does that exactly work in our eyes?<

I wouldn't say that the M ovement is necessarily "expecting" an RBE to evolve from spreading education ALONE (alone being the keyword here), but I would definitely say it's the primary factor here. I would go so far as to say that if we don't focus on it, then any other resources toward the RBE (volunteers, donations, scientists, etc.) are null and void... if they ever even come about... which they won't, without spreading awareness. In *my* eyes ;-) it is through spreading awareness that people and organizations with the means to do anything about it will start to come forward, and nothing is to say that we can't approach them as well, but again that falls under the same category as spreading awareness. I think the important point here, to avoid being too wordy, is that one of the only things we can do right nown *is* spread awareness, in order to preserve the integrity of the very idea we're advocating. Trying to further our cause or "prove our point" through haphazard communes, premature technological prototypes, etc. Would only do more harm than good. This is spoken from a very broad perspective. Obviously there are steps we can take within the realm of "spreading awareness" that involve establishing information databases and improving our organization and effectiveness. But on a technical level, I don't believe we have many cards to play.

-Brandy

Luke Wonderly is living in my home and making the new Venus Project Tour documentary... he is literally starving and lost his home due to selling his truck and other possession to get this info out. He is very close friends with Jacqe and Roxanne and Peter Joseph... and I can assure you that your NWO paranoia is exactly that... paranoia.. (honestly... if these folks had any desire or even under mind control to bring in a new world order.. they wouldnt be sleeping on my couch with the banks trying to force me out.. NO.. Luke would be livin high on the hog if he were working for the elite... IN FACT... the package with the raw videos sent to Luke was returned because he had no forwarding address and the post office wont even give hi a box without 2 pieces of de-facto ID.. which he didnt have.. and I dont submit to any de-facto 'addresses'.. so he cant get mail at my house either..
the people involved in this are NOT the NWO 'elite' anything... if you 'believe' something because someone makes a video without doing any ersearch.. I cant even call you paranoid.. you're simply stupid and I have no desire to give you free rent


now dont get me wrong.. I LOVE paranoia.... but here is MY definition of 'paranoid'

["Para-noia" -
Para = beyond' or outside of ,
Noid=relates to 'membrane covering the brain" (box)-

Para-noid = (outside-box)= Ability to connect multiple abstracts that appear unrelated to those adept in thinking within the confines of the neural sheath ]

The problem with you folks relating Zeitgeist and Venus Project to the NWO is that you have simply come to an incorrect equation...

don't stop connecting abstracts however....
it means that you are actually thinking.


i'm sure someone will come back on here now and call me a lizard.. just watch

It is perceived in that way when you pull the strings (through threatening letters, imperatively, by not responding correctly to real issues, or instructing others from the GCA & GCT, while cutting without notice the communication channels from TZM Australia with the rest of the international chapters, etc), when YOUR image seems to be under some kind of "threat"... by whom? Why are you afraid of having "too much exposure on TS" (as you mentioned) lately and keeping your meetings private? Are you afraid of your own TZM activists, newcomers or perhaps other coordinators firing bottom line concerns at you now? Instead of appearing by surprise -as you do once in a blue moon- on TS, why not inviting everyone advising everyone with sufficient time to raise legitimate queries? The same goes for TZM International Forum. Also, wouldn't be a transparency example to have all the recording meetings by GCA and GCT available to all TZM activists?

To finalize Peter, I am sorry to be vehement with you this time, but I perceive an egotistic and even childish "victim" attitude from your side that needs to be identified and corrected once and for all. As I kindly said to you months ago on my 1st. open letter that I recognize your movies, presentations and research, BUT: I neither follow leaders, nor your own personal bullshit, because I am a free man. Many feel the same, and I hope many will do that too, for an unconditionally free World. Anyway, it was a real pleasure listening to you time ago, but unfortunately not now. Not like this. After all, we all are "victims" as well as "victimizers" of TZM as well as this world. From my side, I had no other alternative than resigning to TZM .

Dear Peter,

The original English document comes immediately after my translation to Spanish. (My apologies for missing to place a heading note). Anyhow, by now I assume that you already have it. Respectfully but with vehemency this time, I have disagree with you about the "poor and insulting set of claims" as you mentioned to Simon because directly or indirectly you involved Kari, David, and an entire Australian Chapter with a 24 hrs deadline (set by yourself in person), involving myself and everyone who share their point of view points 100%. I am sorry but a man in your position on TZM cannot be so "emotional" about letters from coordinators or from an article in a magazine about TVP. Lately, you were excusing yourself a lot, when perhaps you need to be more pragmatic and to apply critical thinking, encouraging instead proper discussions and a rational consensus of all activists. Peter, you know that one letter is connected with the others (plus the claims from other former coordinators too) for a reason or many . Did you read them? Did you read my reports warning you -with details- about what some obtuse minds within the GCT, GCA and Linguist Team were doing? Or you just listen to one side, to your inner circle and play fool with other essential topics when it comes to admin issues?

So, you have the right to get "emotional" and to be "pissed off", but we don't?... while we get all the blame for being "insulting", with "bullshit assumptions", "irresponsible writers", etc... but you never apologized to the Australian coordinators for what all you said and the way you wrote in your posts, or -at least- meeting with them . Instead, you threatened and
crucified an entire chapter overnight!... So Peter, you would obviously look still more interested in..."to obtain good terms with TVP for TZM" (as you responded to Simon's Report)...rather than a fair, correct, horizontal, friendly communication with TZM activists After the backstabbing to TZM and yourself where TVP -through Roxanne- publicly did in a middle of a global meeting on TS3? After TVP utilized all possible human resources in translations for your movie, whereas TVP took a great deal of free time advertising? Plus the TVP fundraising ads on TZM webpages, etc? The split didn't take too long after that... In fact occurred a few months after the premiere of your movie...remember?

Now, did you Peter consulted or made a public survey to determine if most activists were really interested on joining TVP -which is almost a private institution- back again? What is your interest in it now? Could we know what you have in mind? Are those efforts of yours now in line with consultations with everyone within a transparent, consensual platform? Do you really care what other people -within TZM- thinks? The bottom line question perhaps should be: are you taking us for idiots or you don't give a shit? (Very frequent word utilized in your vocabulary).

This is exactly why I have made this letter "Open", instead of hiding the dirty laundry in the closet, because you are publicly denying many facts repeating that "you have nothing to do with the admin part of TZM". You know as well as we do, that this is untrue. So, you disassociate from the admin part when you put your foot into the hole, but blaming and insulting us with your sharp language and distorting statements... If what you say were true, logic would dictate that the 1st thing you would do is to dissolve the actual GCA and

GCT and to call for immediate set consultations at global and public levels in order to reelect the candidates in charge. Not at closed doors, as it happened up-to-date. Are you up to it? I don't think so.

Please Peter, would be really foolish to underestimate the power of critical thinking now, or you could be in a dangerous ground of total denial. We are not that naive and we have the right to ask legitimate questions. THAT is not bullshit (word you use a lot) my friend either. So, please stop treating everyone like that in your posts, because it is you who is insulting us now... It would be terrible to see a World-wide Movement that was born as a consequence from your 2 preliminary movie inspirations; that you are now converting it into a DOGMA . And for later on, perhaps trolls picking up the pieces mocking with your persona and having a feast with the entire TZM? Why are you doing this? Isn't this suicidal for TZM? Why you deny that you are "a leader", when in fact you act like that?... It is perceived in that way when you pull the strings (through threatening letters, imperatively, by not responding correctly to real issues, or instructing others from the GCA & GCT, while cutting without notice the communication channels from TZM Australia with the rest of the international chapters, etc), when YOUR image seems to be under some kind of "threat"... by whom? Why are you afraid of having "too much exposure on TS" (as you mentioned) lately and keeping your meetings private? Are you afraid of your own TZM activists, newcomers or perhaps other coordinators firing bottom line concerns at you now? Instead of appearing by surprise -as you do once in a blue moon- on TS, why not inviting everyone advising everyone with sufficient time to raise legitimate queries? The same goes for TZM International Forum. Also, wouldn't be a transparency example to have all the recording meetings by GCA and GCT available to all TZM activists?

All together, we agree with a RBE model as a world-wide goal, whereas the monetary system is just one cause. However, you need to know that this is just one side of the coin showing our urgent problems. The flip side is the EGO structure , a hidden distorted self-image promoted by our psyche. That ego structure is the result from fear, self-preservation mechanisms and conditioning sick cultures multiplied by millions of humans, but using the monetary system as a controlling tool of self-perpetuation. TZM alone cannot deal with the global monetary conditioning without considering the psyche , which is fed by consumption + egotistic cultural values simultaneously, because one is supported by the other. TZM needs a different approach, because any organization has the potential to get corrupted from within . Gradually, old and new egos build up the need for more secrecy, thus new conflicts are inevitable. That's why the need for redundancy. Peter, can you see the implications of this?...Why not letting renewal of energies by rotating people in charge, creating a synergy effect, while allowing a true horizontal, transparent platform with unconditional participation all at a TZM core level?. Or you don't want to? Why not? I am simply asking because: who wants stagnation?

Please, this advice is also for your own sake: as described above, get rid of the entire coin , that means throwing the 2 sides of it, together; allowing TZM with a renewed chance of a RBE for this World, but not as an unique centric operational hub anymore, and much less with this sick structure. It looks like we are at a stage as another friend mentioned to me:..."instead of TZM creating a "critical mass" is now creating a "criticizing mass"... there

must be a reason for that happening too. In that case, I would rather prefer what Simon suggested:..."...it seems more likely now that a broad coalition of like-minded movements will carry the cause of sustainability forward, with TZM among them, rather than leading them"...

To finalize Peter, I am sorry to be vehement with you this time, but I perceive an egotistic and even childish "victim" attitude from your side that needs to be identified and corrected once and for all. As I kindly said to you months ago on my 1st. open letter that I recognize your movies, presentations and research, BUT: I neither follow leaders, nor your own personal bullshit, because I am a free man. Many feel the same, and I hope many will do that too, for an unconditionally free World. Anyway, it was a real pleasure listening to you time ago, but unfortunately not now. Not like this. After all, we all are "victims" as well as "victimizers" of TZM as well as this world. From my side, I had no other alternative than resigning to TZM.

All the best you deserve. Your friend from Australia,

Brujo (Carlos Díaz)

p.s. check those links out as another warning sign, because -according your email to Simon- I think you have some facts wrong:

http://www.trafficestimate.com/thezeitgeistmovement.com
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/thezeitgeistmovement.com

..." Is he the Messiah?...naahh, he's just a naughty boy! "...
-Monthy Python, "Life of Brian"-
"Any fear is an illusion.
You think that something is standing in your way, but nothing is really there.
What is there is an opportunity to do your best and gain some success".
-Michael Jordan -US Basketball champion-
(Traducción al Español)

Letter of Resignation from Mc Gregor Kari MZ (01-01-2013)

For those who want to know the truth and investigate, and those who did not want to open their eyes to the warnings displayed for a long time:
http://archive.org/details/ApenadaCartaDeRenunciaAlMovimientoZeitgeist
January 3 at 8:05am

Here is my letter / previous report May 6, 2012 Karin & David w / copy PJ: http://archive.org/details/LetterToDavidKarin-06May2012
January 3 at 8:18 a.m.

Thanks for sharing El Brujo, the skein is still unraveling. . .
January 3 at 10:40 a.m.

On Peter's behalf. Here is his response on this.

TZM is what people make of it personally and as a regional Themselves Global team and to blame, any other group or person is a cop out. Global has done so little to Affect / interferes With Any chapter and all this is just manifest, coming from an emotional frustration irrational, frankly presumptuousness place. Everyone loves to draw attention to Themselves ... blaze of glory ego stuff. Complaining acerca Forums not being open and "lack of access" ... without any understanding of the process of development or common lapses due to time. (It is not done) "Bullying"? They produced a scathing anti-DVT in Which the name of TZM have now destroyed my personal relationship / ZM relational overall with DVT, along with my prior attempts The to ease stress; They having been selling my films in Violation of 3rd party
Which contracts copyright law have put me in a position of legal liability to my licensors. This is reality and not only are the films, Which I extend for free, non exchange distribution, not to be produced / sold in any form, mass or not by 3rd parties, Also I have spent the past 2 years Actively expressing the need dissociate my films from TZM in General, Noting That They are not core resources and are distracting. I changed the name for VIZ for this very reason as well. So her claim "I was left feeling as though TZM is a fraud as, in Addition to failing to walk our talk, we reject or ignore the very people and organizaciones who we say we're looking to Collaborate with, you as though talking and holding screenings of PJ's movies is all we're Intended to ever do. "Is just bizarre and convoluted on many levels. Once the essay Guide/22 new educational video series is done, we will have core, unconfused only for TZM materials. Many other accusations Also are completely distorted, posturing in a manner of spin Which only serves to elevate oneself due to some Perceived hurt. Sorry for whatever happened she feels. I will continue to do what I have since
2009 - draw attention to the notion by whatever means necessary. Those who find fault in thin air like this are likely not doing this at all. They harp on power issues, structure and "direction" ... as though direction ever really changed at all. Everyone makes mistakes for sure and we can eat to terms with Either Those issues and Realize everyone has the best intentions In this voluntary structure ... or we can condemn and extend blame for our own staff lapses. In the end, it's always person deep down.

To engage TZM is to take the core tenets and create projects and expressions to make it what you can in your community. This is acerca an external perspective and the great TZM activists actually act, making use of the network - not sit around and talk acerca how maybe some coordinator is abusing his power or whatever. TZM's structure could not be anymore open, loose and transparent - why? Because in effect it is virtually non-existent anyway. TZM is run by data and the General info we have had overall projects since 2008. Real TZM activists learn to write, speak, learn and create. They do Townhalls, zdays and media festivals and Whatever They think of to draw attention to the concept for a new social system, keeping the global harmony in gesture as to movement. We Could disband entertained by the overall "structure" today and it would not make a difference to Those who really get it. And finally, I can not stand how people like this come down on others who Have Done much much more than doing lot, with no funds and limited spare time. Those volunteers in Global Administration / Site maintenance walk against a brick wall at all times and undergo too much stress as it is to keep things connected and working. This will never be pretty so I suggest everyone get used to that.

Peter
January 3 at 11:39 a.m. · 1

I believe that you should not expose our opinion using the MZ name or any other, only our name, but we follow the ideas of the same, for the MZ defends unity, understanding and is not engaged in attacking or control what does or does not do DVT or others. In this case the controversy is by donations raised for DVT film that has not yet been able to do for lack of writers, only donors could request satisfactions and in any case must be made on his behalf and not on behalf of others, MZ in this case. As much work or effort we have put, that we do voluntarily.
January 3 at 11:43 a.m.

Sure, now PJ uses bulldogs "for ever" (plus other followers inevitable that by themselves add up, by the way, I let the members of the PV-LT-take the trouble of translating your letter) to 2nd send this letter. or 3rd. hand because he does not have the courage to face a sensitive and highly intelligent people like Kari or David, even privately in TS or Skype, much less in front of other global chapters. PJ's attitude now reveals who and what really is. I sense a degree of cowardice here, because it hides, because he fears the same activists who have critical thinking and who are observers. The same attitude was in TS as soon as you start asking logical questions chapters background global coordinators (as it did in the last global meeting David Z appeared and questioned him last year). PJ said in another letter inside the AWG to ... "does not appear in TS because it is too much exposure to him" ... So it is very loose for rhetoric, the microphone and cameras, but not with the same volunteers activists ... why will? ... Curious is that he says: ... "blaze of glory ego stuff" .... (Egocentric glory cutlery) ..., questioning those who, he says, "interfere with the chapters, which are presumptuous, and who want to attract attention to themselves" ... there will that PJ is who is in crisis now projecting internal himself? ... why does not publish a discussion between, at least, global general coordinators and accepts suggestions? ... or the MZ has become a dogma with dictatorship now?

I doubt Kari continues to respond to the distortions and self-justifications of this guy named PJ. She was very clear and explained everything in great detail in his letter with links to evidence even in excess. Now PJ is now trying to cover the sun with your hand .... and do not blame him, because it's a reflex, when he knows that this organization, sooner or later it will go by itself where it needs to go: to the bottom of abyss of oblivion, it is rotten at its core. And he speeds up this process with the worst: this structure continues to justify the unjustifiable, when to, at least, logic dictates to exercise some damage control, 1st place must apologize to everyone (not just with Kari, David and whole chapter of Australia), and dismantle forthwith the structure with all bulldogs that has within the GCT and GCA ipso facto. But no, still with that attitude and suicidal megalomaniac for movement. If he thinks that everything is going to fix with more bureaucracy, taking another document (among the many that failed) or another series of "educational videos" as "Guía/22 test" as you say, only a fool that follows a dogma can believe. Because PJ himself and loses credibility, with his bulldog (or ZIT - Zeitgeist Inquisition Team) as I call it.

Above clings to an excuse (because you ran out of arguments), distorting the facts about that chapter of Australia will "violated your copyright" ... we must be low! ... When ever discussed this before, knowing what happened and how I explain it in detail in his letter Kari ... as if anyone here would have made profits with reprints of his videos. Even reached it collected to pay the same blank discs, burner, etc! .... When the distribution (education campaign) was mass to stimulate more apathetic audience of this culture in Australia. Even GCT were considering to implement in other countries and was to be discussed in TS. As much as PJ change name to "disassociate" what does not suit you, because everything gets hot at one point (for crises that exist to find solutions and improvements), however runs blaming others, repeating phrases and transforming what was a real movement toward a dogma EBR now. Big mistake! ... But not only him, but of those who blindly follow the leader and do not question their actions and their bulldogs ...

And beat his chest by a publication "caustic against PV"? ... Accusing David-for that item-by "destroying their relationship overall MZ and personal with the PV"? .... It shows how friends were not, when there was a blatant stab in the back to all activists (not just him, poor) of MZ, by Roxanne (and Cool), using human resources and MZ little black having worked as translating their video, with full minutes of free advertising for the PV? .... Or is that you give a damn PJ activists, only cares HIS image. Now my new questions: whether such article by David Z not lie, and there is ample evidence more legitimate questions that arise in light of critical thinking. So if such a separation had occurred and many activists were then even re-adapting well and be happy not just "activist arm" and no longer need the PV as axis: it does all this rhetoric epistolary PJ? Future intentions ... or have the PV again? ... And we looked at all of us? ... Behind and kicking fuss on your part for a well written article? ... And all that follows in its letter are crocodile tears, victim role and all this talk of letters? (It's an expert, no one denies) ....; simply to defend the rotten structure FOLLOWING OCCURS?. Nothing more?. With this structure, the MZ inevitably becomes a fraud. And many are being "purloining" of it.

What is then? ... Longer accept blindly without asking for explanations? ... Stick with street activism / public as "the usual" play to self-importance, without attracting or join any real scientific answer to an EBR, as the PV? ... there is then an alternative? ... maybe there is in project groups together and connecting with each other, without leaders, without this garbage GCT, GCA, or authoritarianism. The answer has to be in each. No one denies that PJ was the initiator of a wonderful movement with a vision and impressive spontaneous communication skills, he was the one who captured the collective consciousness of humanity and has even created an organization in two years that the PV even dreamed of 40 or more ... but unfortunately PJ lies in something critical: he is the leader of this movement and rather than pulling the strings when it faces critical things, when it suits HIM. As Isaac Newton (he learned) discovering the universal law of gravity, Peter Joseph is going to have to learn also of gravity, the "weight" that has its own ego. The effect is called fall. You only need one ingredient: time. Nothing and nobody escapes that.
January 3 at 9:05 pm · 2

Monica: Please keep your violin, it is no longer time for rhetoric or music. It's time to show and tell things as they are and to be objective.
January 3 at 9:07 pm · 1

El Buro and I will read your always huge and conflicting points of view, for me it is obvious that the people who are always in conflict (LTI, PJ, DVT) conflict are themselves and others, in relation to LTI you I can tell you 1st hand, that's what my shows me the time, our curriculm are our attitudes, not words, you contradict yourself, a person who says that no one gives orders should not send anyone save his violin, or Similar arrogance. You're always in the middle as the main promoter of the problems, you are not and never has been part of the idea TZM. Resolve your conflicts and disputes're always creating others, because many are here to find solutions to hundreds of problems that already are in the current system.
January
4 at 5:04 a.m. · 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=SN8uQYOQfAQ&NR=1
January 4 at 5:08 a.m.

And where are you going to find the solutions, Monica? ... Of those who lie to you, or those who are blind followers? If the MZ means now follow a dogma, then maybe I'd joined the wrong group. And if I'm in the middle of the engines of the problems might be because I see them in the distance and pointed to the root of them. I do not think these problems, but even existed before I be part of this movement nearly 3 years ago, whose "usual suspects" are those who continue this structure seeks to perpetuate false and needlessly enlarging their pathological egos. Read the letter and reports Kari? ... Not just me ... Monica, someday you will realize that there are things, attitudes and people with whom you can not "negotiate". So just give up 'to this movement, but never with those who share an EBR, using a scientific mind and critical thinking.
January 4 at 8:45 a.m. · 1

to vary by ballyhoo without proposing anything, and trying to blind / retarded / dogmatic / stupid trying to work things out.

Some time ago I do not contribute anything positive, Warlock.

When you leave the MZ terminás or you return to do something to fix the situation?

Staying in the middle is totally and completely counterproductive.
January 4 at 9:41 pm · Edited

If Javier Rodriguez, and did long ago. . . El Brujo proposed move away beyond any label and mostly out of all these egos and pathological situations NOT TAKE ANYTHING AND THAT DO NOT MEET ANY PURPOSE more than keep wasting time with blind people inchadas, pedantic and as in so many ridiculous moments and safe. . . .

WHERE IS YOUR PROPOSAL FOR ACHIEVING Javier EBR AND ADVANCE ON FACTS AND NOT ON WEB ADDRESSES & showbiz? Cover the sun with a finger? Not telling the truth about what happens to MZ? Do not tell everyone that the MZ is a movement in decline as the VP? Not telling the truth about who is PJ? Some idol is falling? What is fear? What's the problem? MZ is not a movement based on critical thinking and the use of scientific method?

 once again sorry all this. . .

Finally, let me share something that fortunately no speech or malicious administrator can distort or change. . . .

Google Trends (Trends search on ALL RED)

zeitgeist movement: http://www.google.es/trends/explore # q =% 20movement zeitgeist

venus project: http://www.google.es/trends/explore # q = venus% 20project & cmpt = q

And compare it with a word obvious and evident as "sex"

sex: http://www.google.es/trends/explore # q = sex & cmpt = q

The world is changing? CLEAR THAT IF! now seek more sex in networks than before and less MZ or VP!

ALL INVITED TO HAVE A CRITICAL THINKING AND SEE THE TRUTH IN FRONT! LET THE FEAR THAT YOU PASS 2012. . . XD

Hugs and good luck in your peleitas!
January 4 at 10:09 pm

not understand anything all that. You said nothing new and we know all that.

Here's a record of chapter activities in which I am: http://www.zeitgeistcaba.com.ar/en-accion/2012-11-28-22-35-08/indice-de-actividades

Where are the great activities and all that SOMETHING is supposed to do? Where are the major solutions to the problems they offer? Where is the proposal? Dissolve? MZ because 3 or 4 people were offended with others? Putting ourselves? Do items with confusing or nonexistent supplies to attack other organizations? Criticising the course with pure blabla blabla?

Q useful.
January 4 at 10:21 pm

also have to be nerve to talk about "malicious administrators" as your tendency to delete comments people and kidnapping groups and web tools.
January 4 at 10:23 pm

Yeah, sure Javier's all good. . . especially you! Good luck with your peleitas!
January 4 at 11:18 pm · Edited

El Brujo, Kari has upset many people, the TVP and TMZ and the letter is presented as a victim, I would apologize, but since I'm not I can not do much Kari I can only identify my insecurities and my own stupidity and if not change it at least keep it under control, because my life is so much easier, try to change others is frustrating, people only change if you want, if you think you should or then by circumstances or experiences, and also change to be like me? I do not think a world full of people just like me the solution, I need it or not others, so learn to live together and accept each other as it is and not as I'd like it to be.
January 5 at 5:05 a.m.

Eye, kari is right in many respects.

I differ in form, and the "tirabombas" always use their frustration to take more fuel to the fire they created.
January 5 at 12:17 am · Edited

Javier do not get nervous it's bad for health. Grabbed a lifeline in time? ... Look at 'Titanic plannedn this very few because they also believe they are invulnerable. You know what happens between the guardians of a pattern when they are very nervous?, Bite each other! I found out 'that Claudio Falaschini also waive' not only with the chapter of Mar del Plata, but with all the MZ. I hope you have not bitten the too! ... U other things happened that opened his eyes? ... By the way I answer the barking: I already made proposals with many papers and with many details. My reports and letters are all summarized in this document with links, dated May 6, 2012 I sent the coordinators then David and Kari Australia, and Peter Joseph at:

http://archive.org/details/ReportletterToKariDavid_c.c . PeterJoseph-06May2012

My proposals on >>>> change those rotten protocols (whom GCA and GCT are the first to break when it suits them) date of April 3, 2012 in: http://archive.org/details/ProtocolosRevision- 03-april_2012
And quite >>>> back, too (innocently, of course, because the "owners" had other plans ...) I made another proposal to improve the LT (self-proclaimed "international", when PV) in another paper at: http: / / archive.org/details/ProposalToTzmSpanishLinguisticTeam-21-01-2011 >>>> Of course, all that used toilet paper and proposals for Kari and David already being INSIDE the GCA, etc ... You read all the documents and evidence of it? You check it was not me alone who besides making proposals, ALL went ignored. So what can you do with a rotten structure, with a leader who says it is not and you loose the dogs with protocols using for to cum, ignore you or treat you idiot? ... Nothing, you got to go. But here we are not all sheep and do not accept "bosses". Now denounce, as applicable. We took the mask. Do not ask me to elaborate on my "proposals" Javier, you very well know they do with them PJ, the GCT and GCA. Now you too are looking for your promotion and join in the pack of verticality? ... Mmmhhhhhhhh, not you ashamed?

>>>> And if you actually use critical thinking, do yourself a favor, READ WELL Kari documents (if you do not like mine who are long-standing) and notes that in a match with mine, before writing more nonsense. It is good for psychological health to be consistent with the truth, instead of barking for barking and biting people walking on FB. Kari's frustration was the same as mine, David, Cliff of Canada (who resigned to GCT) and many others who are still adding and withdrew before the Movement. So I am a "tirabombas"?, Or were not aware, Javier??? ... Come man! ... Do not make me laugh, what happens is very sad, and not to fuck!

Monica >>>>: stop trolling and please I beg you to keep the violin again and inform yourself well.
January 5 at 1:53 pm

see ... because you do an analysis of which aspects Kari is right and because 'not in others? I would be interested to know them.
January 5 at 1:57 pm

What nonsense you say, it seems to me that too much music has touched are you, say you're going but you're R where R, have brought Australian latinoamerica noise because you are Latino and live in Australia, I pass it to you I like to argue and I do not. Enjoy Life!
January 5 at 2:11 pm

I'm not nervous.

A hug Brujo. -