Skeptic Project

They still can't seem to get that Ed B. and I are two different people.

So, the problem is if you don't bend to their will then it's obvious that you don't fit in with a movement attempting to not only change the whole world, but change the minds of everyone in it? How am I to believe they're capable of running things in the real world if they can't even take criticism online without going into bunker mode?

> Lets take a look at a segment of the forum rules which are common throughout
> the internet and state;

Being I'm in and have been for some 15+ years, some 2,000+ forums, so I think that would probably come under "common throughout the internet".. yet I can talk in the vast majority of those in a far more abusive and personal manner than one even dare to on TZM forums, and still not get banned!

I think because on the whole people who generally run forums are less trigger happy over people insulting each other and tend to let people have a little more rope to hang themselves with first, and respond with measured responses of punishment such as a limited ban, rather than a lifetime ban.

Though I have noticed the last few years, so many new forums appearing staffed by people who often have no real experience in the job, and one might suspect have a tendancy towards power tripping. (One of the problems of a volunteer force, doesn't mean you attract the best, but you can end up attracing those who see some benefit in ordering other folk about..)

> The Zeitgeist forum is not there to meat every demand a critic has.

Some of us have noticed that..

Which is rather a shame as critics can be rather useful for telling you when your making a mistake, or need to do something to improve things.

But I suppose if your perfect then you don't need to listen to dissent..

I joined up really wanting to help, but that soon wore off and I ended up being 505/50 till eventually I was completely against it.

So I was also a member who was in it to help originally, still I am glad i figured out exactly how BS it is.

Anyways the original post is such a losers opinion of whats actually happening. He appears to have no real idea about any of the main points brought against his movement nor wishes to address them. Hes just seeking to convince himself without doing any dirty work to research the oppositional points.

Yaaaawn !

http://planbfromthebacardiroom.blogspot.com/2010/08/tvp-critics-their-antics-2.html</p>

TVP Critics & Their Antics 2
Well, didn't take long for my posts to get noticed by some guys from the Conspiracy Science forums, although to be honest I expected them a bit sooner. (Did leave links all over the place.) The thread involving my blog is called: 'Another asinine pro TVP/TZM blog defending voiceofracism.' I'll get back to the 'asinine' part later but it is true I probably said somethings that upset certain people and it's only natural that they take up a defensive position. Whether that's righteous is another matter.
Yes I defended Devan Evans' blogpost criticizing some players over at the CS forums, because in my opinion the critique is perfectly justified. His contribution showed that some folks weren't as squeaky clean as they pretended to be. Like Evans I come to the conclusion that some people made a mess of things themselves and should look inward instead of blaming the Zeitgeist forum moderators, Peter Joseph or the movement itself. It's that simple.

Quick recap of some of the people I (and Devan Evans) addressed. Nanos, seems like a fairly decent bloke from what I have gathered yet couldn't stop criticizing the movement on a regular basis. Most striking of all, from my perspective, the moment he got banned on the ZG forum he pops up over the CS forum and lets face it, that place is already known to harbor fierce critics. In a way some people would look on that as another justification.
Thanks to Ed W. it's obvious now that he isn't Ed B - another guy who had a beef with the Zeitgeist movement. I'm Ed V. so I think we can all agree that it is a little bit confusing at times. So Ed W., relax. I did leave the connection unverified and open to questioning.
'Anti cultist,' another fierce critic, armchair sociologist and hypocrite in my book. Complains on his blog that groups (like Zeitgeist) are in fact a cult yet also clearly states that people band together for survival. Complains that the Zeitgeist forums took another approach while he was fully aware of the endeavors of 'anti-members' out to create chaos, did not focus on that or the fact that it drove some moderators to tears. Complains that the behavior of many Zeitgeist members and supporters leaves much to be desired yet a quick glance over at the CS forums will show you that he spews the most foulest shit himself.

Asinine
–adjective
1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.
2. of or like an ass: asinine obstinacy; asinine features.

Really? I'm being asinine for pointing out what I perceive to be fallacies? When I see a topic like this one over at the CS forums called 'Jacque Fresco: Deadbeat Dad,' I don't get the impression that you're doing objective (background) research. Seeing such a topic where some folks make some shocking comments give me the impression that it is simply character assassination.
Those folks are way beyond the point of objective analysis. You've reached the point where people (Zeitgeist supporters) view you as a debunking collective and rightly so. I raise the question; 'how did you get there?,' because some people pretend to be some kind of sociologist yet the introspective angle is hardly if not at all present. It's seemingly always easier to blame someone else. . .
But now that the pleasantries are over, I'll see if I can counter some 'main points.' And who knows, maybe I have some demands of my own. Quid pro quo, right?

> Nanos, seems like a fairly decent bloke from what I have gathered

Thats good to hear :-)

> yet couldn't stop criticizing the movement on a regular basis.

I criticize everyone, everywhere..

Criticism is, the very nature to get change.

Note, I didn't just point out the mistakes, I also offered many solutions as well..

> Most striking of all, from my perspective, the moment he got banned on the ZG
> forum he pops up over the CS forum

I was already there from previously when VTV appeared and I stuck my 2 cents in. (If I rememeber correctly some of what I said was actually in defence of VTV when no one else dared showed their head above the parapit here..)

But, as the place is full of people who know TZM quite well, and also a few smart folk who I enjoyed and found useful to debate with, I would naturally talk more here on issues I couldn't fully explore on the TZM forum without being told off for talking too much money stuff.

> and lets face it, that place is already known to harbor fierce critics.

It can often be very valuable to listen to fierce critics, as it can give you an insight in what you are doing wrong, and what you need to do right.

In fact, the feedback I have got myself here, whilst at times very abrasive and not delivered in a kind and thoughtful manner, has none the less been frankly truthful, and whilst verymuch what I knew already, I did gain some new insights that I wasn't entirely sure about.

Basically by listening to a bunch of folk saying nasty things about you, is actually very educational and useful.

If TZM/PJ/TVP listened to all the advice given here, I'm sure they would do far better in their goals than simply hoping everyone here would go to bed and never wake up.

What should have happened is that the TZM forums, should have had a members only area, like it is now, AND a anyone can chat about stuff area, like this, so that it was never far away from unpleasent answers it didn't really want to hear, but could.

I have noticed that some of what has been said here, has sunk in and been taken notice off, though I imagine no one offically would admit it, so its at least nice to know we are making a difference and helping, even if that isn't always every single persons intention!