Skeptic Project

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=230&id=291335#291335

> This preety much describes most people you all may know or be one yourself.

Describes me pretty much.. :-(

> In case of a collapse these are very probable to happen:
>
> - Hypermarket food stocks emptied, resupply slow and sporadic

Already happening.. (Countless times I go to the supermarket only to find the low cost food that is the only thing I can afford is out of stock.)

> - Less and less people will accept credit cards and cash, in the end nobody will
> accept any ( just resource for resource )

Already happening..

Just the other day we had to walk 12 miles to the nearest transport outlet with the right equipment, with gammy feet to replace an electronic bus pass card as the local buses don't take cash!

Local bank charges to let you deposit cash..

And another requires passport ID to get your own cash out! (Not all of us can afford to pay for a passport..)

> - Electricity brownouts, internet drops, telephones barely working, in the end
> total blackout

Already here..

Plenty of brownouts here, but I'm lucky that when I was in a job I spent $1,500 on an UPS so at least I have 10 hours or so of emergency power to cope with brownouts.

> - No public transportation, just private transports who will ask for an arm and a
> leg to take you somewhere

Already here..

Buses that don't travel after 10pm, cutting of bus services.. (Already costs £800 a year in bus passes for my girlfriend to travel to work and back, hence why I want to build a solar vehicle to replace the bus expense, as its better in my view to spend that money on something we can keep and reduce future costs than to repeatedly pay out for bus passes.)

> - No or little gas/heating/fuel, freeze to death in winter

Already happening..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242384/Pensioners-dead-home-peak-UKs-Big-Freeze-spark-inquiry-care-failures.html</p>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/01/10/gas-bills-to-soar-by-52-per-cent-115875-21954963/</p>

With rising fuel costs, many simply cannot afford to heat their homes. (Already here I've had to cut energy costs by moving servers out of my home to elsewhere, and making sure nothing is turned on that doesn't need to be.)

> - Eventually, tap water could run out if it's not being pumped anymore.

Already happening here :-)

Often we are out of water for hours because there isn't enough supply in the area.

You'd think I lived in India, but no, I live in the capital city London of the UK, and have friends who want to live in India because they reckon its getting better there than here!

> So, how a person that owns nothing can SURVIVE ? What to do ? Where to go ? The only
> thing such a person has to offer are two arms to work and eventually a brain.
> I'm afraid such information will be needed much sooner than we think.
>
> Ideas ?

Setup a microfinance site, so that those of us with money, can help those without it to start up businesses and start employing all of us poor people and help get out us of this povetry trap, is what I'm working on as solutions..

Already happening a tiny bit I see:

http://www.kiva.org/team/the_zeitgeist_movement</p>

Thougn not really helping people in the US/UK/etc...

Which is why we need a microfinance site for these places specifically!

Except, it's not really happening. There have been far worse shortages here in the west, and the entire system didn't collapse into a paradise.

A belief system that relies on the current system to just wash away is a belief system that won't get very far. Even if the system collapses, we know it can rebound fairly quickly. Why if the system collapses, will people just automatically trust people who have no experience with anything? Even during the great depression most people still didn't even trust socialists, so what does that tell you?

Real shortage of critical thinking here...

> There have been far worse shortages here in the west, and the entire system
> didn't collapse into a paradise.

In the older days we had a decent stock level of items, and plenty of skilled staff to fix things.

Nowdays, we run this, just in time stock control system, meaning if there is one tiny wrinkle in the system, supplies don't get through, as such a few days bad weather/etc. means we get awfully close to running out of food/water/gas..

And skilled staff are in such stupid short supply that almost every industry is stealing from each other to find them, so the death of just a handful of people, coupled with bad timing and something important breaking down could easily see things going from not so bad to riots, to a little worse than that.. (After all, you get green terrorists breaking into power stations and shutting them down nowdays..)

> Even if the system collapses, we know it can rebound fairly quickly.

My impression is that over time, our ability to rebound is not as good as it used to be, and its not impossible to imagine a senerio where large sections of the country grind to a halt because of a mayor point of failure. (As we move to relying more and more on putting all of our eggs into one basket in an effort to save money..)

> Why if the system collapses, will people just automatically trust people who have
> no experience with anything?

Indeed!

Now, if such people had built communities previously and shown their system to work...

You don't have to prepare, just wait until the Rapture is ready and I come down on my Pterodactyl to save y'all.

Even during the great depression most people still didn't even trust socialists, so what does that tell you?

That they were IDIOTS because they had BANKS. It totally made sense when Fresco said it!

> what about a collapse scenario due to a epidemic

I can quite imagine this happening (And is another reason I want to move hundreds of miles from the capital city here where spread of any infection is just so easy.), especially considering the growing number of anti-vaccination retoric in society these days.

Not to mention the increasing overcrowded conditions people live in, and influx of illegal immigrants who lack the normal vaccinations anyway. (Not to mention their lack of hygene is also a concern.)

Couple that with local authories paying lip service to recycling rates which mean not picking up rubbish to meet government targets, leading to increased flytipping and increase in the rat population.

Now we just need a general strike like we had in 1979 and we might not recover quite as easily as we imagine we would:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/30/liverpool-gravedigger-strikes</p>

With an increased population and many unemployed and thinking that riots will fix the world, we could easily as I see it, slip back to the 1980's almost overnight:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1174955/Recession-spark-riots-civil-disorder-minister-warns.html</p>

The government though does have plans, but its basically to shoot people, and I worry that we don't have enough troops for that or bullets...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/27/military.defence</p>

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6814938.ece</p>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/757788.stm</p>

Plus London is on the top of the list of places most likely to be hit with a terrorist nuke, and consdering the governments poor ability to deal with terrorists, it does seriously concern me. (And hence why I want my new home to have button up capacity just in case something goes off and I need to stay indoors for months and filter my airsupply..)

I'll be much happier myself when I move someplace a little safer.

> You can get there in the electric car you're building!

That is part of the plan :-)

Costs a small fortune to pay someone to move you here, so I'll be building a trailer to take a fair amount of stuff, hopefully just one trip will do it!