Skeptic Project

Because this reads like exactly what I asked Peter to do, it's almost an exactly lifted quote of what I said had to be on the film website. So why did he say no when I asked? I wonder what changed his mind?

However, this is an aside- The Zeitgeist Film Series, while an inspiration for The Movement which shares the term "Zeitgeist", is not to be confused with the content/views of the films in detail. The Zeitgeist Movement is an economic/sustainability movement at its core and its relationship to the Film Series content is not consistent. The Films, while now moving to promote The Movement more so in part, are still intellectual/artistic treatments and are not to be considered a basis for The Movement itself. Please see www.thezeitgeistmovement.com for more information on this important social revolution.

I left, and did what I did, because he refused to do this. So now I'm feeling really weird.

@Brenton

II knew a little bit of your story Breton as far as you threaten to expose what went on behind the scenes of the TZM forums and Peter Merola found out and banned you asap. In that you explained your point of view and they unbanned you but did not allow you to have mod. I did not know though that you left because you wanted the movies set apart from the movement. Which is very interesting, I'd assume you agree with RBE, venus project, most of what Peter Merola says, and most of the action the zeitgeist movement makes but just have the issue of the TZm cult movement not separating itself from the movies... I actually have a issue that TZm cult is trying to separate itself from the movies as Z1 and Z2 are what make up the majority if it's population which are of course based on conspiracy theories. To deny that those movies are not connected with the movement is to also say that their is no correlation between plant growth and the amount of sunlight a plant gets or their is no connection between putting gas in my car and my cars ability to move. Just because one says their not connected with the other doesn't mean it's so and when say they are not it's being intentionally deceptive and in the case of Peter Merola it's being intentionally deceptive to his giant audience as they eat his every word like the gospel.

When Peter Merola attempts to separate the movies from the movement it actually makes things worse then better and it will in the long run continue to be a movement that supports and is based off conspiracy theories that have conspiracy theorist believers and promoters inside of it. When I say Peter made things worse by hiding the correlation it's the fact that people will always point out the two videos and tlel them to watch it, it's the fact that people will show th "original videos" of what he made as well as watch the newer ones, just because he attempts to "hide" the evidence suggest that he is guilty of the very thing he says he's against or in short one of his biggest hypocrites and a danger towards his own movement. The right way to of handled it is to simply say those are my beliefs, or this is what I believe or believed in, instead he tried to hide the evidence and denies that the movies are not the movement when in fact the movies are promote on a website that has link information to the zeitgeist movement at that Z2 movie towards the end gives a link and says join the movement. I mean this is bad PR all for the Zeitgeist movement let alone Peter Merola, I mean if this was a politician or a something else they wouldn't be able to escape this and hiding the evidence well that would get them screwed, as such peter has condemn his movement to forever conspiracy theorist land by such actions that will be impossible to wipe clean now or ever for that matter. I think the only way to really fix the image of TZm is if Peter Merola stepped down and went away...

I have to say that if Breton hadn't of got banned from TZM and Peter hadn't of given a link to conspiracysceince.com website I may of not of joined CS or even knew what it was all about. I suppose I am thankful for Brenton being banned in a way :D

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Below is a link on the tzm website of where it says the movies are not the movement

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kb&task=article&article=3&Itemid=100091

" #6 Is The Zeitgeist Movement related to Peter Joseph's Films?

While the word "Zeitgeist" is also associated with Peter Joseph's films, "Zeitgeist: The Movie" and "Zeitgeist: Addendum", the film series based content isn't to be confused with the tenets of "The Zeitgeist Movement" here. Rather, the films were inspirations for "The Zeitgeist Movement" due to their popularity and overall message of seeking truth, peace and sustainability in society.

The term “Zeitgeist” is defined as the ‘The General intellectual, moral and cultural climate of an era.” The Term “movement” very simply implies ‘motion” and change, Therefore The Zeitgeist Movement is thus an organization which urges change in the dominant intellectual, moral and cultural climate of the time.

The Movement is not about Comparative Religion, False Flag Terrorism, Economic Hitmen, Fractional Reserve Banking or the Federal Reserve. The films are unrelated to the Movement in detail and are personal expressions of Peter Joseph. There is often some confusion in this regard and in the most extreme cases some people have the knee-jerk reaction that TZM support's "Conspiracy Theories" or the like. This type or rhetoric tends to be of a pejorative/insulting nature, used in the context of dismissal of The Movement by an erroneous and "taboo" association.

However, for the sake of clarity, let's analyze this confused concept itself:

The term “Conspiracy Theory” is, at the present time, used mostly as a derogatory term to condemn an idea (or set of ideas) that is contrary to the often presupposed claims of an established order, specifically in regard to an act of criminal conduct.
The technical definition of “Conspiracy” has a few variations, the most common being : 1)“an agreement to perform together an illegal, treacherous, or evil act” 2) "a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act."
Given this, it is accurate to say that any secret act, engaged in by two or more people, which is abusive towards another/group, is a “Conspiracy”. This understood, it does not take much time to review human history to see the seemingly endless lines of secret “treacherous” or “evil” acts which have served to hurt one person or group, usually for the benefit of another person or group. If you believe that bank robberies, corporate fraud, false advertising and the like have occurred anytime in human history...then you are agreeing that Conspiracies exist, or have existed.
That understood, let's now consider the term “Theory”. Theory, in this context, is defined as; “a statement or set of statements that attempts to explain observed phenomena”.
So, logically speaking, a ”Conspiracy Theory” is nothing more than “ a statement or set of statements that attempts to explain (expose)... a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful, evil, or treacherous act.”
The qualifier of “Theory”, as opposed to “Fact”, is an ambiguity which means it has attributes that are unknown/unresolved. During the Richard Nixon Administration, in America, there was a criminal conspiracy which led to what we know today as “Watergate”. While this conspiratorial event is widely understood and accepted as “fact”, there are still ambiguities, such as erased audio tapes/evidence, which reflect a less than total picture of the actions, unfolding, considerations, background, benefits, and the like. Thus, the widely accepted account of this event is, in fact, formally a “Conspiracy Theory” in certain areas.
As a more detailed example, in 1953 Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh was overthrown in a coup organized by the United States' CIA. A pure Government “Conspiracy” by every possible definition. It wasn't until the CIA declassified its secret plan, years later, that more extensive details were finally known, such as paid fake protests, false flag events and other propaganda. This is now public knowledge... and the point to be made is that you can bet that there were journalists covering these events which got wind of the CIA connections and attempted to speculate on the true nature of the event itself. You can also bet that they were dismissed as crazy “Conspiracy Theorists” at that time as well, though likely not with the same derogatory term.
So, again, the use of this term, coupled with the even more derogatory distinction of the “Conspiracy Theorist”, is to take anything that is not inline with the current, accepted explanations of the establishment for such an event and dismiss them. As another example, The 9/11 Commission openly admits that there are many details they don't know about in regard to the events of September 11th. Hence, they have their “Official Conspiracy Theory”, while others might have “Alternative Conspiracy Theories”. It is simply a double standard. Very simply, the establishment chooses to present their “theory” as “fact”, when it cannot technically be defined as such, based on the reality of missing information, which is constant in almost every case of known criminal conspiracies, historically.

So, as a neurotic result of this, today you hear people blindly say: “I don't believe in Conspiracy Theories”. This irrational disposition shows the power of both social conditioning and denial in regard to “taboo” topics or inconvenient conclusions. These minds have been conditioned to not even consider the possibility that an alternative view could exist for certain historical criminal events which are contrary to the prevailing conclusions of the established order. This fear is maintained by the derogatory, debasing notions propagated, which often include associating these alternative “conspiracy theorists” with “holocaust deniers”, “big-foot hunters”, and those who think “Elvis is hanging out in Area 51”, etc.

Let it be understood that the merit of any idea should be based on the evidence available, scientifically analyzed in an objective way... not dismissed because the idea is contrary to the traditional, prevailing world views and values. If no one ever challenged anything the established orders decreed as the sole truth, people would still believe the world was flat.
In the words of Gandhi: “Truth stands, even if there is no public support. It is self-sustained.”

Now, with that out of the way, a part of TZM's educational imperative is to bring to light the consequences of our social system and how it creates aberrant human behavior (“crime”).

For example, when there is a criminal “conspiracy” by Goldman Sachs to defraud it customers, we view the event as a systemic consequence of the monetary structure in that context. In other words, we view any such “criminal” or offensive acts as products of culture and attempt to consider the cause/motivation of these acts, and adjust society accordingly, ideally removing the motivation for such offensive acts."

It is puzzling, but I've seen the same kind of thing elsewhere, it seems some people, perhaps many people.. just seem to find it impossible to listen to advice and publically admit, "yes, that is a good idea, lets run with it"

Instead, it almost seems as if they have to pass it off as their own idea..

Though thats not always the case, VTV for example (Staying with the TZM theme..) seems quite able to take ideas given years ago and is now actioning them, but quite why previously these very same ideas was somehow not TZM, and now are TZM, does puzzle me equally.

Perhaps PJ is going through the same process as VTV did, and is I dunno, maturing maybe ?

This could mean we might see TZM evolve over time into the very things we are saying it needs to be to stand a chance to really change the world.

Which is at least good steps.

Next they will be having a functional IRC channel :-)

Who cares how much they distance themselves from the conspiracy movie, when the Zeitgeist Movement is stupid on it's own. It's just a social club for teenagers and college students who want to be trendy and pretend to fight the system while wearing the Official Zeitgeist Movement™ Logo T-Shirt®.

I never suggested he said anything new. The point is that he's done exactly what I asked for (and, adding to that - most staff I know asked for it too) which is really a perfect PR move.

Now when somebody suggests that the Movement is a conspiracy theory movement, they have this official statement that they can link people to, etc,. The media will actually accept what is said in that statement, in other words. (Except for very conservative analysts).

I don't know, it's just... odd that it should happen now. I think he's seen the merit in what I suggested, even if he didn't decide to do it because of my suggestion.

I'm honestly impressed because Peter was very very very against this.

@Brenton I have to disagree with you at it being a "good PR move". I actually think it's one of the worst PR moves Peter could make besides the promotion of RBE etc... If he simply did nothing and didn't attempt to hide the evidence that would of been a better move.

@Muertos I agree completely

@oreolvrs shameless advertising lol

They already had a disclaimer like that somewhere else on the site for long time. I remember PJ saying "when one of us is on NBC and they ask about the movies, this is what we tell them" and we all had a laugh at that.

"Say that to a journalist and they wont even know how to argue with it, at least not initially, and certainly not on live radio or television. Maybe in print, it's more likely"

All it takes is a little tip off from an anonomyous critic or a quick google search fr a journalist to rip PJ to shreds.TZM/TVP has already tarnished its reputation online and will barely be able to make it in the real world.Us here at Con Sci are not only tame in comparison thant the likes of most political pundits and journalist we have a fraction of the influence on the general population.

http://conspiracyscience.com/blog/2010/06/19/zeitgeisters-greatest-hits-confronting-canned-responses-to-criticisms-of-the-zeitgeist-movement/

Now when somebody suggests that the Movement is a conspiracy theory movement, they have this official statement that they can link people to, etc,. The media will actually accept what is said in that statement, in other words. (Except for very conservative analysts).

Except Peter has said this many times, while he has finally put it on the website that is the only thing that is different. He said it a long time ago to the NYTimes, so much so that people thought he was not a truther and denied all the 9/11 stuff he put in ZG1!

There is still no obvious disclaimer on the front page or films individual pages and still given equal billing with all the other films and if you scroll down you see a large banner to the Movement. Of course there is also Addendum on the Movement's website still and The Venus Project still tells people to screen Addendum, though I do notice they seem to have FINALLY removed the comment about screening Zeitgeist 1 in the "how can you help" section, but still have both listed in the Recommended Reading List. You should be more happy, but pissed off still about that.

Peter is a lost cause, he will never do anything that he should do. He just spent lots of time and money rereleasing a new Zeitgeist 1 with a "companion source guide" under the banner of the Zeitgeist Movement promoted in the official radio address' and on the official forums. Even if you are somewhat surprised at what he added to the films website, this is completely irrelevant compared with this. As I have said before, saying the films arent the movement is like someone repeatedly hitting you and each time saying "what? Im not even touching you!" and you being impressed because he is saying that.

I'm honestly impressed because Peter was very very very against this.

I really just do not at all see what he has done that has so impressed you here. I also wanted him to put disclaimers up, but this wouldn't have cut it not at all.

Haven't got time to read your responses. Just wrote this http://brentoneccles.com/disassociation-with-the-zeitgeist-movement/</p>

Must go to bed.

Brenton, I responded on your blog. I fail to see how or why this is any significant change of direction in the Zeitgeist Movement or any sort of significant event at all. You said in an earlier response that you realize it's not new, yet you seem to regard this as some sort of major PR coup...those positions seem inconsistent to me.

This gives Merola no more or different ammunition than he had before to fend off charges that the Zeitgeist Movement is a conspiracy movement. Surely his actions speak louder than his words in any event. It's still called Zeitgeist. He's still pushing the films. He's still pushing conspiracy theories.

I guess I don't understand what the big deal is about this announcement.

I would have it in big bold letters on each of the films pages prefacing it in red...

That's actually what I asked for. On every page, and for a press release to be mailed out to all members confirming it. So I suppose in reality what he's done is barely a fraction of what I suggested & what we all seem to agree is necessary. I should append the article I wrote with another, but it'll have to wait until the end of October when I go to my mother's house, and get the exact quotes of what I posted in request (and which, as I said in my article was supported by the vast majority of members).

I have those 'screenshots' for which I was banned on my brother's computer (if he hasn't formatted it since) - I figure that it might be worthwhile releasing them in a safe format. I'll have to seek some basic legal advice first, though, since they threatened me with legal action if I released confidential material. It's likely that all I'll have to do will be to remove any content that would identify any person that has not given permission to be identified - but I'll have to be doubly sure.

(I know I still haven't responded to some of your posts above - but CBF right now).

"You can't sue people over the Internet? Oh and I'm in the US and yet he's in Australia? Who cares then?"

International lawsuits are almost impossible, so I'd release it anyway for their attempt to threaten and control you.

CyborgJesus Peter is attempting to devise a legal team inside of TZM, I imagination for intimidation factor... I'd be more than happy to go to court over TZM for calling VTV fat and poor.