Skeptic Project

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=3&id=292819

> Can anybody help AmitOrgad into any direction as to how to start
> a Venus project town in 200 acres of Guyana?

Does anyone here have an account to view this group that is being talked about, as unless you have an account, its not viewable to the public:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&groupid=852&task=viewgroup&Itemid=704

> My question, is why is Roxane Meadows discarding it when he clearly offered
> funding from the Guyana government?

Funding, really ? How much ?

> The reason is simple. It doesn't matter if we build the cities right now.

So it doesn't matter that most TZM members pay mortgages, pay rent, or are homeless..

All that money being wasted and helping keep the system TZM so hates working..

I would have thought TZM folk would be the last ones to help put money into the hands of bankers and landlords.. (Slightly ironic that VTV is a landlord here..)

If we build cities ourselves, we don't have to pay rent or mortgages to anyone and we can house homeless folk too!

If we create our own businesses and jobs, we can end up working a 20 hour week, instead of a 60 hour one and have more time to spread the TZM word ;-)

> If we opened the doors and let ppl, and tell them that the stuff there is free of
> a monetary price. Ppl will tear up the place, and sell the stuff to the capitalist
> economy and we'd be back at square one. Waste of time and resources.

That is why you hire security people to stop folk wandering off with household fixture and fittings..

> So even if we have the resources (or the money) for such an undertaking,
> the project is doomed for failure

http://www.findhorn.org

This didn't fail...

> they had tried before, with their own money(millions in investment)
> but somehow didn´t work.

Ok, so their own effort failed.

Someone else managed it, and they didn't, what can they learn about their mistakes and what can they learn about how someone else succeeded so they can try and copy the success and not repeat failure again.

From what I can gather, I don't think millions was involved...

That is part of the problem I reckon, they was too poor..

Which is why I would favour wealth creation so that money is less of the issue in success.

I've made a bit of a study of why communities succeed and fail, and reckon the way forward is to try and copy what works and avoid what doesn't, document our attempts well and try to come to some scientific conclusion as to what are the success aspects we need to do. (As we no doubt will make mistakes ourselves I imagine.)

I'm surprised someone in Nigera hasn't approached them via email :-)

"Does anyone here have an account to view this group that is being talked about, as unless you have an account, its not viewable to the public:"
Nothing really interesting as its just the same guys trying to get into contact with Jacque and Roxanne and how important and AmitorGod talking about the biodiversity of Guyana

Roxanne: "We spiritually endorse what you are doing but we can not afford to support it. You are putting the burden on us. It would take 6 months of hard work to do it appropriately with a competent staff and we can not afford it at this time. We have done this route before investing millions of our own funds and now want to move on wish support from others to do it appropriately. "

Millions of their own funds? What the hell are they talking about?

> We have done this route before

Shouldn't that be 'gone' ?

Not that I'm any great expert on English, but does that sound like someone whose first language is English..

> either spent millions of dollars

I might imagine the person probably meant to say, after adjusting for inflation, in todays money it would be equalivant to millions of dollars..

If I had to be charitable that is.

Or it could be, what is their income per year, something like $100k ? so in ten years, that will be $1 million, thus if they have been at it for 30+ years, then you could say $3+ million, or millions and be facturally correct.

Though, quite how much they spent on trying to build a community is a bit of a guess, unless they want to give us figures so we can see it was spent.

(Most of my money has gone to pay Landlords, damn them!)

No one in the Zeitgeist Movement will ever build anything. They'll just sit around and post on the net about conspiracy theories and how bad the money system is.

In a way they are right, building a commune isnt what the Venus Project is about. Of course at the same time they refer to so-called resources based economy societies like certain isolated tribes to show its possible.

The thing is there is no real Venus Project towns, in fact that's a contradiction. If you understand the Venus Project at all you'll know it has to involve the entire earth because all the resources need to be accounted for. You can't do that in a small area and the smaller the area the worse it is.

That's also why they will always fail and never do anything.

That's why their main goal right now is to make "a major motion picture", to continue to spread the word at continue to get nothing done, ever. Their next main goal is to fund a "research city", which will showcase what it might be like in a Venus Project society. This also wont really be a liveable society either since its all just to show people what it would look like. Of course this will probably require billions of dollars

I think they want to make one with a very large budget and I also think they want to it to be fictional, what a fail that is waiting to happen.

But I also think its a way so that even if they did make a movie, they would always be saying next time they want to make a better movie with a bigger budget than the last one. Especially as no amount of film will get them what they want. So because the NEXT time, that's going to be the one that will make everyone wake so that's why even after they get a big-ish-ish movie they will still not be satisfied until someone like James Cameron's directing in a film costing hundreds of millions in 3D and winning Oscars. ;D

:)

Are you kidding Muertos? I've taken to heart proper engineering of boats, training of crew, and life boats for all on board. I also know that it's wrong to harvest local materials from an alien rain forest world -- I already learned that with Fern Gully, but I learned it again with the remake of it known as Avatar.

People don't like preachy shit on TV for 22 minutes, I don't see how they'll enjoy it for 2 - 3 hours.

I think the best question we can ask isn't about how many millions of new members TZM will get because of the movie, but: what happens when it doesn't create millions of new members?

@ Special Ed

Towards the end of the movie "Zeitgeist Moving Forward" Peter has 8 steps towards Zeitgeist. Upon reaching the last steps which is called "enemy groups of the zeitgeist movement" Conspiracy science website is mention at which is said - " It's filled with a bunch of thirty something year old kids with no life; who if it wasn't for me would be a bunch of kids masturbating and playing video games wondering why they have no life. When upon joining the movement you must attack CS, and if you see a CS member in real life you must attack them because they are a threat. Don't you get it people who disagree with me and poke holes through my work are the enemy! They want to take away your free Utopian society as well as your right to believe in CT's! This group has single-handedly prevented me from talking about CT's as well as include it in my movie, they must pay!".

> Their next main goal is to fund a "research city"

Makes me think of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQOHVOduYX8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanadu_Houses</p>

And now... :-(

http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/xanadu-home_of_the_future.htm</p>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-kjfRWY38c

I have a fear any money they do make, will just end up in a research city full of well paid staff and nothing more will come of it to help the rest of the planet.

If they could just take the next step and build a working research city full of poor folk, and then another slightly better one with the lessons learn't from dealing with ordinary folk, and another, and another/etc. that would be great.

Assuming that there is anything worth talking about re. TZM, it seems to be rapidly becoming a non-subject I notice on other forums as people find slightly more interesting things to talk about.

I think offhand, this is perhaps one of the last places it gets a mention.

I fear if we don't talk about for a week, we'll forget how to spell the URL to look it up!

If Peter Joseph or TZM, Inc, or whatever tried to sue me, oh my god the publicity would be great. I'd welcome the ad money from the massive increase in hits, because $1.50 a day just isn't working for me. You can't stop me by suing me, I mean, I can just move hosts to another country where you can't touch the content with legal enforcement.

Suing someone who openly disagrees with TZM and gets 1/20th the traffic they do would be the best demonstration of TZM, far better than anything I could do. Just like when the Church of Scientology sues one guy for writing stuff online. They look crazy, he gets praise, and if he has ads, he gets $$$.

Please Peter Joseph, sue me, for the love of lulz, sue me. I need to retire early, and according to you, I obviously crave attention.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=5&id=293639

> I own a business related to the financial services industry. I earn a great living and,
> in all humility, live a very privileged life.

So, someone with money!

And in a thread where so many are unemployed or in very low paid jobs..

> I hope that when a more physical version of the movement manifests I'll be in
> a position to help facilitate some early projects.

So, he is waiting for TZM to say, lets go and build something..

Meanwhile:

> Attempted to create a self sustained house,
> but failed due to lack of resources (money).

Some are trying to build things..

Now, if only we could get the people with money helping those without..

> However, in order to change the system in which we live (i.e. Capitalist monetary
> system), I have to work to become powerful within it.

Oh dear, do you think he is going to get lynched for that heresy speak...

> Fortunately we already have a lot of wealthy Zeitgeist Movement members that may
> help in the transition from monetary system to resource based economy.

I do wish they would do something with those resources that sit in folks back pockets, whilst so many TZM members suffer.

> I really appreciate this.

Oh good, another person likes the idea of using money to build things.

> I keep thinking it would be so awesome to win the lottery, and right away give about
> $10 million towards the movement. Start up facilities to mass produce organic food,
> tools for off-grid housing, solar panels, anything that would help the masses become
> less dependent on the market system.

It would be nice to see that happen, but I would fear they might piss it all away on a huge quanitity of DVD's that end up as landfill someplace..

> last month I was homeless for about a week. I slept in parks and roof tops.

Meanwhile, this is happening. :-(