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Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:06
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"If you were to disagree that the states will eventually drop their boarders or at least drop their state laws and regulations, what is going to stop it? Is it the states' desire to maintain their sovereignty for cultural or historic pride? Are there any practical - by that I mean extremely necessary - reasons to maintain the sovereign borders? I understand the practicality of local government branches; other than that, is there a practical reason?"

Are there any extremely necessary reasons to not maintain them? I'd need to know that first.

#31 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:09
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Level: 12
CS Original

One example: Many people are burdened with laws that change based on the state they're in. This seems unnecessary if there's no practical reason to keep the borders.

#32 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:11
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Its their responsibility to get laws changed in their new location, not the country's responsibility to change all laws in case the people in question move unless the law is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court exists for the poorest American, the richest American and all Americans in between.

#33 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:14
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Level: 12
CS Original

That's the status quo, yes. But is that the most efficient and effective solution? Would it be less efficient and effective to disband the state sovereignties?

#34 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:16
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

The question is not whether its efficient. The question is whether or not its legal.

Which it is not.

#35 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:20
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Level: 12
CS Original

I was asking about efficiency. I know state laws are the law; but why? What is the practical reason today for maintaining a system where each state has its own legislation? Is that reason significant enough to use as evidence for why the state sovereignties will never be eliminated?

These laws were made 200 years ago in a much larger and different world.

#36 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:23
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Yes, and the Supreme Court changes the law based on the current world. There are mechanisms in place to keep laws moving in a socially progressive fashion and there are mechanisms in place to keep progress from moving too quickly.

#37 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:26
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

In regards to the practicality of state laws?

Probably because people in different states have different cultures and don't want to lose that regardless of how inefficient it may appear to be as long as civic infrastructure is maintained at a reasonable efficiency.

#38 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:28
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Level: 12
CS Original

And I'm interested in what's going to stop the state sovereignties from being eliminated over time in favor of only federal laws.

Because, as I said, I don't think global government can happen if the above cannot. Since I think global government is inevitable, I don't see why the states are going to remain, either.

I could be wrong, of course.

Probably because people in different states have different cultures and don't want to lose that regardless of how inefficient it may appear to be as long as civic infrastructure is maintained at a reasonable efficiency.

bleh, though I agree.

#39 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:37
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

This entire conversation hinges on states having sovereignty in the first place, which they do not, as court cases concerning nullification show.

The concept of "state's rights" has much more to do with culture than it does any real applicable laws. It is intangible, which makes it even less likely to go away.

#40 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:40
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Level: 12
CS Original

Possibly, though even as you say, the courts can overrule the states, so there is the possibility for state laws to be reduced or eliminated. (I think that's right.. I'm not the best with judicial stuff)

It will be interesting to see how the melting pot of US citizens in 2050 feel about culture in America.

#41 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:50
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Only if a Supreme Court majority interprets the Constitution in a way that would allow them to eliminate state's rights altogether, which I don't think is possible. If they were that radical, they'd never be appointed.

#42 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 11:56
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Level: 12
CS Original

It will come down to what people think is radical as time goes by. With minorities expected to make up 50% of the US population within the next 30-40 years, who knows what differences in legislation will take place. I'm not saying such a short time will allow for elimination of state borders; but it may become more considerable.

#43 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 12:08
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Paid Disinformation Blogger

Level: 14
CS Original

I agree with Matt. One world government is impossible, and undesirable by anyone who's realistic about how the world works. What would there be to gain from such a system?

We've had nation-states and borders of one form or another for thousands of years, since the beginning of human civilization. Expecting that to go away within the blink of an eye in historical time that is 50 to 100, or even 500 years, is silly. It just won't happen.

#44 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 12:09
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"One world government is impossible, and undesirable by anyone who's realistic about how the world works. What would there be to gain from such a system?"

Nothing.

#45 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 12:13
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Level: 6
CS Original

Because, as I said, I don't think global government can happen if the above cannot. Since I think global government is inevitable, I don't see why the states are going to remain, either.

Why that? I don't think that a central (whether national or global) government should have any more influence than needed. And even if I'm wrong and central government was more efficient, I don't think that the USA will have any exemplary value for the feasibility of such form of global governance.
If this kind of political structure is wanted, it will most likely be achieved through external political pressure, not by some radical form of political awakening, although the latter seems to be expected not only by all TZMers, but also a huge part of the left crowd.

#46 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 12:15
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I don't want to share my culture with assholes from Los Angeles, and they're in my own country.

Also Texans. Fuck Texans.

#47 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Oct 14, 2010 - 13:31
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Why that?

Especially in the US, I think multicultural efforts will expedite the desire to wipe away Anglo hygemony. A revolution in culture will act as a catalyst for this transition. As such, the cultural and historical reasons for maintaining state borders will erode, leaving only the most practical reasons for maintaining their existence.

Other countries will take longer due to their more solidified cultures and enduring history.

#48 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]