Skeptic Project

It seems to me that the Loughner association is pretty much curtains for our friends in the Zeitgeist Movement. They're not acknowledging it, and of course they won't ever, but I honestly think they're pretty much done.

The movement was already in slow decline anyway. We've seen stats here that Zeitgeist-related web traffic has been falling off consistently and considerably for a long time. (I remember writing a blog in early 2010 and using Google Trends that showed they had something like a 38% decline in interest, measured in Web searches, in the first few months of 2010). As someone pointed out in another topic, most of the members who post on their forums give up after about 300 posts. Z-Day 2010 was a snoozer. Even the rerelease of the first film and the "Source Guide" didn't get much notice.

Now this shooting happens and Zeitgeist gets linked to the killer as a major influence. This is the worst possible timing, right on the eve of the Z3 premiere. From now on, 99% of the people who learn about Zeitgeist from the mainstream media (other than those who already knew about it) will hear about it in connection with the Tucson tragedy. It's also very rare for Zeitgeist to get mentioned without being in the same breath with Loose Change. The commonality is, of course, that they're both conspiracy films. That association has already crystallized in the public's mind--and it was inevitable that it would, considering that TZM has never distanced themselves from the first movie and continues to use it as a recruiting tool.

The first hours after the interview with Loughner's best friend seemed like the crucial time to act, but Merola compounded the failure by issuing a defiant statement threatening to sue ABC News, and since then he's clammed up and deliberately refused to talk to the press because he doesn't want to overshadow the Z3 premiere. (In a sense I can't blame him, because the Z3 premiere is so insignificant that it's difficult NOT to overshadow it with anything). By the time he finally does feel like talking to the mainstream press, they will have moved on to something else and nobody will be interested in what he says, which I assume will be some variation of "the movies aren't the movement" and "I'm a scapegoat." So basically he'll be back to the usual M.O. of releasing YouTube videos where he interviews himself and pushes back, too little too late, against the Loughner story. The true believers will lap it up, and we'll make fun of it on this board, but nobody in the real world will care.

In the meantime, even assuming for the sake of argument that Z3 could have translated into some measure of crossover popularity--meaning, that it could catch the notice of non-conspiracy theorists who are not already in the Zeitgeist camp--it seems that possibility has been entirely erased by the Loughner story. Whatever gains the movement might have made through Z3 are now impossible, because any forward momentum they gain from the movie will be expended pushing back against Loughner. They won't get any mainstream media attention on Z3 because the only aspect of the Zeitgeist phenomenon that the media will be interested in is the conspiracy aspect and how it relates to Loughner (which I believe is appropriate, because the conspiracy aspect IS the most important attribute of the Zeitgeist phenomenon).

The Zeitgeisters themselves seem to be convinced that Z3 will be such a success that it will capture the imaginations of millions and propel them to a critical mass of popular support. That idea was asinine to begin with, but it's even more unlikely now.

So, what happens? The movement stagnates, probably the natural attrition they already have will accelerate, until the thing dwindles down to a core of die-hard dead-enders like VTV, Voice of Reason and such who will never give it up no matter what happens. Merola can't really hope to gain any new converts with new movies, especially if Z3 flops. The hope of attracting semi-mainstream people who the Movement can trumpet as their version of big-name players, like Douglas Mallette, seems futile now that nobody would want to be associated with the movement because of Loughner. Forget fundraising, even if the Movement ever decides they want to do that. They can't even count on the occasional friendly donation of a mainstream blog or two, like the Huffington Post thing a few months back, post-Loughner. They're permanently marginalized.

Then what happens when Fresco dies, which can't be that far off? I'm sure some Zeitgeisters will try to get a glowing obit in the mainstream media, but I doubt there will be many takers. With Fresco gone and no new blood like Mallette willing to associate with the Movement, any semblance of forward momentum is gone, because Merola can't come up with the ideas himself and even if he did he would look like even more of a cult leader. So then it's just a group of kids posting on an Internet message board, their numbers growing smaller, month after month, year after year until eventually they can't pay for the web hosting anymore, and the whole thing fizzles out.

I'm not saying this will be a quick process. I'm sure the death of TZM will linger on for months if not years. But do you see any other realistic possibility for their future?

Sounds pretty accurate. Let's add in Michael Ruppert being wrong again about economic collapse and how they will move forward when it doesn't happen.

@Muetros fully agree. As far as Douglas Mallete I still deem the guy a mooniac since he advocates building a base on the moon will change the world which is unrealistic and just silly. It was pushed by VTV and said a million times that Douglas Mallette worked for NASA which is not true he doesn't work for NASA since he doesn't get paychecks from NASA he works as a contractor for a company which Mallette eventually admitted and pointed out to people eventually. In all respect since I do respect Mallette to a degree I worked for the government doing autocad work on drones and at that worked on a lot of satellites, I have a bit of experience myself on working on stuff that goes into outerspace and in the deign aspect of stuff going into outerspace I'd probably be doing laps around Douglas Mallette but of course I'd be tooting my own horn.

Also they have a new character called Dr. Jackie Carboni I'm unsure what type of doctor she is but they seem to be pushing her around as all knowing.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/z-radio/2011/01/11/what-i-brought-home-from-venus</p>

NEW: After ten seconds of googling I come to find out she's a pseudo doctor and not really a doctor read it and weap. Looking at her education and following that looks like a person who failed at getting into a real medical school so they decided to get pseudo education and called herself a doctor.

Just for knowledge sake as I never went pre-med in my college career I graduated with a BA in mechanical engineering then got accepted into medical school but pre-med is like a BA for people wanting to become doctors but anybody can do it. At that for interest sake I'll label a type of a pseudo doctor that are actually getting accepted into medical school.

Pseudo doctor are people taking short cuts to become a doctor. The U.S. medical system is the most hardest to crack as far as becoming a full legit doctor in it. I often hear about doctors who "go out of country" to get their medical degree then come back to the U.S. expecting to be orthopedic surgeons and sorts only to be lower on the totem pole and eventually their aspiration are lowered to being a urologist in the end (not a bad skill though, good money, nice hours). These people go to differnt countries for many reason a major trend of things I see is people with no Bachelors getting accepted into a medical school called the school of the Caribbean. The Caribbean medical school is known for accepting people without BA to becoming medical doctors and a lot of colleges will not accept this type of degree for these short cutters to do their residency so they can qualify to be a real doctor in the united states. These short cutters are treated like foreigns with a little bit more status since they were born or are current legal residents in this country but none the less these people have HIGH aspirations of being in prestigious position only to have their bubble busted when they come to the realization that those short cuts they took killed them in the end.

Another Pseudo doctor are people who are not cut to be a doctor aka don't qualify for medical school and instead go to some underground school that has nothing to do with medicine. It's just hippie dippy BS that is the fringes medicine that isn't recognized by mainstream medicine at all. I haven't listened to the radio show but I can only imagine she is like some crazy fake know it all who has adopted fringe ideas from her fringe life style I suppose not by choice if this is the only way she can be a doctor at that a pseudo doctor. I talk about this as for the benefit of people who simply do not know if this is a good doctor to at least identify Pseudo doctors instantly. As long as a person has the money the school of the Caribbeans will continue to pump out arrogant fake short cutter know it al'sl that will get pummeled with reality when they come back to the U.S.

A PhD Naturopathic Medicine is what I define as BS degree. This is natural medicines that are completely bogus. Another person that calls himself doctor in TZm that is into pseudo medicine is a guy called paradigm. These people all fall into the same category as their usually in the fringe of medicine yet they know the answers...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/drcarboni</p>

Jacqueline Carboni’s Education

Phoenix Institute of Herbal Medicine and Acupuncture
MSA , Acupuncture, Herbal & Oriental Medicine , 1999 — 2005

Masters Thesis for Chinese Acupuncture literature review on the Triple Burner Meridian Channel theories and functions.

Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and Health Sciences
PhD , Naturopathic Medicine , 1993 — 1998

WestWind Academy,
Certificate , Chinese Medicine - Tuina , 1992 — 1992

Columbia University in the City of New York
General Studies , Pre-Med , 1977 — 1979

Pace University Westchester, Pleasantville, NY
BSN , Nursing , 1975 — 1977

Cochran School of Nursing, St John’s Riverside Hospital, Yonkers, NY
RN , Nursing , 1969 — 1971

Our Lady of Grace
1959 — 1969

Bronx High School of Science
1966 — 1968

If the whole world goes to shit, why do TZM members think people will trust them? They won't have resources, skills, weapons, etc, and if the Internet is disrupted at all, their only means of communication instantly comes to an end.

I don't think anything can be a final curtain for an org like the ZM. You might recall that after Hitler's first hilariously bad coup that his party was disbanded and he had to recreate it when he got out of jail. And then it succeeded because economic conditions had gotten worse.

That's what they're dependent on, but at the same thing I think the majority would sooner go for something else even in bad times. I think what will keep them going is that the world economy isn't really getting better, yet.

What will happen is that they'll continue to be a collective of the far left, far right and the indecisives right in the middle. Not that I'm suggesting it'll be effective. That's up to them. And their track record doesnt paint a hopeful picture for them.

@Here to Kiss it Better although I'd agree that their are no silver bullets I believe this did them in. Although Hitler had a failed coup and was successful at another attempt, he did not have the internet back and people could not simply google the bio on Hitler. the same would go with Bill Cooper if the internet was as popular when he was spreading his BS around the U.S. people would of found out how much of a fraud and a nut job the guy was really fast or at best he'd never change his story so much whenever he gave a lecture.

This is different like I have said before this is like a campaign consultant trying to get a child molester elected into office it simply hasn't happened and will never happen not even with all the money in the world will it ever happen. The Zeitgeist Movement will be associated with conspiracy theory's and conspiracy murders who kill political figures or people with high status within society. The Zeitgeist Movement will be looked at as a cult not because I said so but because it is in fact a radical fringe conspiracy cult that advocates the hate of jobs, families, politicians, and money. It's no surprise such people like Jared Loughner are spawned from it.

What was the stuff from NZ about? I live there and haven't heard anything about TZM in the mainstream media or anywhere else for that matter. We do have idiots here who will believe in any type of woo though.

@Billl

I cant stand people who claim to be a "Doctor" and then peddle some bullstinky theory or psuedo-medical woo. Some of them are completely fake Doctors and just call themselves "Dr" to add credibility to themselves. And others have a PhD in something, but can hardly be considered as a Doctor (Judy Woods for example).

Also I were wondering, why do people call Peter Joseph, "Dr Peter Joseph Merola"?
Is he another person who goes round calling themselves Doctor even though he has no academic credentials at all?

There's another thread somewhere on the forums that was posted where a CTer, I guess on the facebook group, does that exact thing.

I love how CTers make things so they can never be wrong and how they're never, EVER the people that might do something wrong.

It's not good for NWO or whatever to hurt people, but it's okay for me to talk about a war and maybe shooting people.

Thats because we're living in an alternate universe... We are all mentally ill and they are perfectly sane!

Even after the Tucson shooting, I haven't heard very much talk about Zeitgeist. Having been a little out of the loop, I did not even know the shooter was a Zeiteister until today. I actually assumed that he was a crazy Alex Jones enthusiast! Most of the talk is centered on Sarah Palin and Rush...so will this event be the end of Zeitgeist, or just another small nail in the coffin?

PS this forum changes bad words now? hahaha everything sounds so funny with G-rated replacements :)

Muertos, are you kidding?

This is the BEST thing to happen to the ZGM. This is more exposure they have had in ages. When the ZGM dies it won't be because of this, it was dead long before that.

Its what I always told them, Zeitgeist 1 and all its associations is bad press and will reflected negatively on the whole movement. People denied that and Peter said it couldn't be a bad thing since most people that joined the movement did so because of Zeitgeist 1.

There is the CONTENT of ZG1 that is obviously nonsense which makes them look bad, but this whole Loughner shooting business is just another piece of obvious bad press that was bound to happen in regards to that content. Loughner wasn't the first nutter to go on a shooting spree that was into conspiracy theories and guys like Alex Jones, this just happens to be the first time (that I know of) that it has become apparent that one of his favourite crackpot conspiracy theory films was Zeitgeist.

Peter then reacts like he is so surprised, he should suck it up and take some responsibility.

Sure, it is bad press, but when its a dying movement anyway I think this will only help briefly push numbers up.

PS: Of course it wouldn't be a Zeitgeist film without fringe experts ;-) I wonder if this women also believes homeopathy can provide a good treatment for cancer like Peter claimed several times, then denied several times afterwards, in some of his radio address'.

Fuck this shit. ;) But maybe we should start writing that anyway for the humor value.

^That. I think it'll raise Zeitgeist in the public's consciousness and I would hope most would reject it as 99% woo. Especially since in the US, there are a lot of Christians and Zeitgeist is pretty overtly anti-Christianity.

Might as well stick this here for fun times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFTUx86Hm8

"Remember, ALL PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY!!! "

LOL

Backed it up as well for future reference.