Skeptic Project

I'm not going to say quite as much (but still a fair bit) in this post. I personally won't engage in further debate/argument with you after this post because it'll just go circular, but I will address some of your points.

I would like give another example of a charity that seems to address solving problems permanently, and that would be the one I'm currently working with: Habitat for Humanity. The solution of building a simple, decent, affordable home is a permanent solution for the family that receives the home in solving the problem of substandard housing and many related problems. This also plays into affecting your local corner of the world, as local affiliates apply the Habitat model in the context of their local conditions. For me, it's pretty amazing to see what effects this has on the families. I know it doesn't help everyone in the world, but as I said, I am one person. I can't change the whole world myself, but I can sure help people in my community.

Another point on charity is that I think the view that it 'doesn't work' is a simplistic one. Tell people who have received many forms of help that it doesn't work. Charity may not solve all the world's problems permanently, but to frame it as all or nothing is naive. There are tons of charities, large and small, working directly on the ground and behind the scenes to address some of the bigger causes of various problems. The thing is, I really don't think many problems have a 100% perfect and permanent solution, because once again, locally, problems are different, have different causes, etc. Sometimes the best thing you can do is address it in the short term.

Anyway, I hope you advocate for your chapter to do some volunteer work once a week or donate to or something with...whatever non-profit of your choice. And I hope others will, too.

As far as violence, I will leave that be.

As far as my questions...I'm going to say this. Thank you for answering them in your own words, not pointing me towards reading some text or guide, or saying I don't understand, etc. Your answers are well thought out and articulate and are quite the opposite of what it seems most members of TZM will argue. I read with interest, and while I found them sufficient to answer my questions, I can't say they are enough to convince me that such a thing is viable anytime in the near future. That said, you make several well founded points that I can agree with; your point about land, for example, is most interesting, and makes a decent case that land ownership is something to be looked at seriously and updated for contemporary times. But the overall concept of how an RBE will be viable, for me, runs into several pitfalls. I will just list a few, but I won't address them further:

-the complex nature of the human being and how variable it is from person to person
-the fact that many people like to work and find it gives their lives value that has nothing to do with money
-the fact that there's a lot more that cannot be automated than I think you realize
-related to the above, the fact that there have been many shifts in technology and science that increased population, did put some people out of work but eventually the system and people adjusted accordingly, if slowly
-a fairly simplistic notion of why people commit crimes. I think there is much more to it than scarcity, such as anger, vengeance, need for control, and sometimes mental illness, among many reasons
-What seems to be a reliance on blank slate theory as talked about in the third movie, a theory that has been rejected by science
-And the biggest pitfall is one Evil Elvis mentioned - humanity's tried forcing equality before several times in history. It has not worked. And I do not think what TZM supports will work any better, given historical precedent.

I also am glad to see you say you don't support the idea of a sudden collapse. I know that currencies have collapsed in history, I understand that, and I'm glad you don't advocate seeing it happen again and wish instead for progressive change. TeeZee, you seem to be much more grounded in reality than some members of TZM. I'm glad for that. I sincerely mean that. Much of what many members talk about, with anti-charity, pro-collapse, pro-crisis stuff, etc. is a massive turn off for me and probably many others, and I'm glad that you, at least, aren't into all that.

And in the 100 things challenge, yes, I've heard of it. I probably will never do it, given my current situation and that most of my non-necessity stuff is books, games and art supplies. But once spring comes, I'm going to go rooting through my stuff (especially clothes) and find a lot of stuff to donate to charities, probably Salvation Army since one of our partner families works for them. :)

So, all in all, I say we agree to disagree.

that's ok, I'm done for another few months.

Good one Billl!

@Matt

Feel free to ban me at anytime. Because you know I am only going to continue to attempt to engage you all in dialogue about this.

^ your still talking you liar. Go away commy

@ aaron - abundance of resources? Could you please enlighten me, I am curious about this abundance once the computer decides it is impossible for every Asian household to have a washing machine, a dishwasher, a car and running water.

@ aaron - abundance of resources? Could you please enlighten me, I am curious about this abundance once the computer decides it is impossible for every Asian household to have a washing machine, a dishwasher, a car and running water.

Why would it be impossible? Resources will be abundant, so everyone will have access to anything they want.

You have to believe that there is a concerted effort to keep abundant resources from being abundant.

Its an inherently paranoid mindset. The concept of an RBE will absolutely not make sense unless one goes into it with a conspiratorial view of globalization and economics.

Its fashionable to hate fossil fuels.

Its not fashionable to hate solar panels made in China, even though China destroys its surrounding ecosystems to produce them.

hopefully plastic batteries should reduce that problem Evil Elvis