Skeptic Project

This is off topic and i'm considering making a thread for this...but there are also a lot of people who believe that those in power are the ones spreading New Age beliefs.

They say that hundreds those in power have been involved in the New Age stuff.

Have any of you ever heard of a book called The Men Who Stare at Goats...it's about the US military trying to use psychic powers to goats...and this idea was actually taken seriously by those higher up. I find that really disturbing.

Someone on Amazon said:

This is a fascinating tale about people who are completely nuts. Unfortunately, many of these people who are completely nuts hold or have held senior positions in the United States military. Ronson rarely writes a judgmental word, but allows his subject to speak for themselves--and hang themselves with their own words. (At least, that's the impression--obviously Ronson has selected which of their words to present.)

Ronson looks at ideas for a "First Earth Battallion" by soldier-turned-newage-marketing-guru Jim Channon, who proposed in 1979 that the military put greater emphasis on influencing people with alternative weapons such as paranormal abilities and music. Ronson traces the use of music in warfare to the use of loud music by the FBI at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas and as a torture technique used by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay and in Iraq.

The book covers a wide-ranging territory of nuttiness, including Uri Geller (who is quoted in the book suggesting that he has been re-activated for use by the U.S. military), the remote viewers at Ft. Meade (Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Pat Price, Ed Dames, etc.), the non-lethal weaponry of UFO and paranormal investigator Col. John Alexander, the connections between the remote viewers and Courtney Brown--and then to Art Bell and Heaven's Gate, and the CIA's MKULTRA experiments and the death-by-LSD of Frank Olson and his son Eric's search for the facts about his death.

The book is alternately amusing and horrifying. It would be funny if this craziness wasn't taken so seriously by high-ranking officials who have put it into practice, wasting tax dollars and occasionally producing horribly unethical outcomes.

I highly recommend this book.

The men who stare at goats came from the fact that the military decided to investigate paranormal matters scientifically to see if there were any actual uses and truth to them, the fact that everything they did ended up becoming a dead end study and finally closed down should lead you to one conclusion.

There was nothing of any value to it and all the claims that state the government had super powered soldiers capable of remote viewing and killing people with stares are utterly preposterous.

Did they really smuggle in so many goats to try to kill them? How much of this is true. I can understand their looking into the paranormal to some extent. But some of the ideas they had were very strange. Why would the higher-ups even provide funding to support something like goat-killing with powers

On an amazon review someone claimed that the body of this information came from declassified documents. How much of this information was in the documents? Was the goat-killing in there? Or is that just a weird urban legend that those interviewed made up to mess with the author

Oh, it was public money? I thought it was military funded. I guess I was mistaken?

No, but I thought you might have been saying that it was independent research or something by a couple of guys who happened to be in the military or something. Sorry for my dumb response. I'm still half asleep.

My point is, why would they waste money on trying to kill goats?

My point is, why would they waste money on trying to kill goats?

Read the book, even watching the overly dramatised film will give you some of an idea (though its not the same as the book). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2TzspJn5A Those guys did it because they believed they could use psychic powers as a weapon. But the military itself is about as competent as any big company, money gets lost and money gets wasted in stupid projects and then later someone notices.

I don't know, I haven't read the book yet, but Im sure it mentions it. Why is the question relevant? Is the goat symbolic of something, are you trying to make some kind of point?

Good trailer for MWSAG:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4nzXt4QaYk&NR=1

:) I love Kevin Spacey's character

EDIT:

http://youtu.be/EbbtiCbPPts</p>

A featurette with Ron Jonson and the "real" story behind the movie and book.

When I ridiculed this, I was told I was "being ignorant".

kepp :Were you talking to Michael Jackson ?

If people could kill each other with mind powers, you'd already be dead Questionmark.

I now why the goats were a target of the psychic powers, they were fainting goats, what I read about (I did not read the book BTW)was the guys involved were con men and got paid to "research" psycic powers for military use, they used fainting goats to make it look like they were making progress as they, well like to faint or something naturaly. This is all of the top of my head if anyone care's I can try to find the version of the story I read about.

That's interesting, duncanlecombre

I am interested in which version of the story you read. And If you can't find it, don't worry.

"BTW I kinda get where Questionmark is coming from, you know nothing about CT's then you hear about them and you notice all the supposed symbols you never cared about before. After time when you realize what alternate meanings things have and are able to put things into context better it will make more sense. Youtube videos like to edit the source material to conform to their context that's why I like to try to view the material as a whole."

That's exactly where I'm coming from

In regards to the goats:

A fainting goat is a breed of domestic goat whose muscles freeze for roughly 10 seconds when the goat is startled. Though painless, this generally results in the animal collapsing on its side. The characteristic is caused by a hereditary genetic disorder called myotonia congenita. When startled, younger goats will stiffen and fall over. Older goats learn to spread their legs or lean against something when startled, and often they continue to run about in an awkward, stiff-legged shuffle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fainting_goat</p>

So which is more likely? That someone can kill goats with mind powers or it was a simple con job? I know the answer already.

the men who stare at goats:

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v19804260T8EsW73r