Skeptic Project

> instead of making an open forum for controversial discussions

That really would be a helpful step in my view.

We have to remember that before TZM forums, there was TVP forums, and they managed quite well not to ban anyone from what I remember, and some of the people from there are here now!

I imagine perhaps you saw my post about that kind of idea here:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=60&id=260926&limit=10&limitstart=10

Where I suggested we beta test if you like another offical forum to see how we might deal with 'troublemakers' in a better way than just a simple ban..

Trying to take advantage of that scientific approach of being able to test and compare different solutions and seeing which is better, by having some hard stats to go by. (Rather than say someone like me with 25+ years experience of chatting like this and telling them they are doing it wrong sometimes..)

They also have that awful, marked as unread when they aren't bug for the last year+ that drives me a little potty trying to figure out which posts I've read and which I haven't.. so some different forum software would at least hopefully solve that one!

This topic has gotten off track. Setting aside the ZM forum drama, I'd like to return to discussing the question of whether the ZM is or is not a cult.

I've been on record as stating I don't think it's a cult. However, after reading some material on cults, I'm beginning to reconsider this view. If it's not a cult it seems awfully close, and Merola does seem to have a lot in common with the typical profiles of cult leaders.

One of the things that stuck out at me today as I was reading material about cults was a reference to "deceptive recruiting." This was an alarm bell in my head because doesn't this get at the main issue we have with the ZM, which is that they promote conspiracy theories?

The ZM clearly uses conspiracy to pull in members, then turns around and shouts to the world "the movies aren't the movement" and "we don't support conspiracy theories." I'm not sure if this is precisely the form of deceptive recruiting often used by cults, but it seems kind of similar to it.

That said, it's evident that defining what is or is not a "cult" is extremely difficult and largely subjective.

Anyway, like to hear more discussion on these points.

Deceptive recruitment and dictatorial leadership are clear indicators of it being cult-like.

I think thats incorrect sky, they do have meetings, they do have zday...and they wish to get more members and they want to build their own cities for their own societies as well as they have an armageddonist tendency, IE cataclysmic social and economic collapse will bring about their ideology.

Its almost staring us in the face

Sky, I'm not sure I agree either. The ZM does have some real world presence, however insignificant it may be. Also, I think that most of the psychological/sociological literature on cults was written before the rise of the Internet, so experts like Lifton, Storr, Bonewitz etc. don't address the role of the Internet in the cult experience, which I imagine could be considerable.

Also, note that the ZM continually dreams of and advertises a future where they're a huge power for change in the real world. If the ZM does fall off the Internet radar screen, it's highly likely that a small group of hard-core devotees might turn Jacque's Florida property into a commune where they can "regroup" and prepare for their agenda.

I've changed my opinion that TVP/ZM is a cult.

I don't think they even qualify as a cult. I'm not sure they qualify as anything more than "internet forum."

As a movement, 4chan is a more successful one.

Read into that what you will.

Good find, Muertos.