Skeptic Project

To comment on a post VTV made on the TZM forums:

(Incidently, if a mod locks a topic, its really bad form, as a mod to then comment as no ordinary user can comment back as the topic is locked.. it looks like your abusing your power to speak when no one else can.. hence why I'm mentioning it here!)

> Yes. They are just trolling. There is one guy there named **** who that is all
> he does. I have had to explain this to a lot of people when they don't want us to
> ban people. There is an entire subculture on the internet who practice trolling
> like it is a game or sport. CS is an example of a community group that gets
> together and does this and then compares notes on their tactics. They get a kick
> out of insulting people from the safety of their keyboards. It's really not much
> more complicated then that. It's the same instinct that gets the "popular" kids
> to pick on the "unpopular" kids in school. They set up their own "in crowd" and
> stroke each other's egos to be part of it. That sort of nonsense is something I
> have put up with for years in various crowds, and they prey on "freedom" movements
> because there are so many people who value free speech that they can take
> advantage of that.

Now why have I bothered to comment here you ask yourself..

Well, I think the above comment helps to give insight into VTV's character and his understanding of us, and helps explains some of his misunderstandings, and possible ways we can help him.

We do want to help don't we..

Well I do at least.

Now, what does the above say to me, it says that VTV has been a victim, bullied, now having been bullied myself in the past, I reckon I can understand this part of him. And I think it can help explain why he so often thinks someone is attacking him, when they aren't, he is used to it.. so he see's it everywhere he looks.

And, often those attacked fight back, and thus it reinforces his view that he was right in the first place..

Now VTV and I have come to blows at times so to speak, verbally, but once we have exchanged words, I try to be civil the next time, and you know what, he talks civil to me more! (Not always mind you, but I do think its having an effect..)

Now, if he was a complete idiot, he wouldn't have passed on a question of mine to Fresco/Roxanne, so I think he is just a bit misunderstood, and well, in need of a bit of help.

(Yes that still means he isn't suitable for being a mod, but fine as a user, and needs to be told off for attacking others verbally, so he can perhaps learn to curb his tounge, as the rest of us need to learn too..)

Now, he also said:

> These are the same personalities who in online games like WoW are called "griefers". > People who literally enjoy ruining the fun of other people on the internet.

Now, I've played games like that, so I know just who he is talking about.

But..

I'd say the number of actual real griefers on TZM forum is less than a handful, I might even go as far to say just 1.. (No, no one here!)

The rest, are just responding to him attacking them..

Some of them I reckon suffer just the same as him, having been attacked in the past, they are expecting to be attacked!

And so the vicious circle reinforces itself..

Think of Palestine and Isreal..

Both sides expect the other to give them trouble..

Both reinforce the very things they don't want to!

For example, I'm banned from their forums, will I go and make a pest of myself by trying to get back in, cause hassle, no.

Even though I've been insulted, etc. and even though I've been a victim, I don't go and try and reinforce their views that I'm a bad guy.

It wouldn't hurt for a few of us to stand back and make better use of our time either..

Note, that doesn't mean we cannot talk about issues we see as important to TZM, just once we have finished throwing mud at them, because we are hurt, take a breather and let things calm down.

The same also applies to VTV of course.. (He managed it with me, so I can quite imagine he can manage it with other people if he tries.)

"That sort of nonsense is something I
> have put up with for years in various crowds, and they prey on "freedom" movements
> because there are so many people who value free speech that they can take
> advantage of that."

What are the various crowds? People in libertarian movements?

Well, I would probably make fun of those guys myself, it's like sovereign society for poor people.

VTV is fat and poor

Guys check this out haha !!

It's not really anonymous, it is Code Vickers and anti-cultist and the folks at Conspiracy Science. They are just calling themselves "anonymous" to appear larger than they really are.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=265624&limit=10&limitstart=10#266668

Apparently we are not just making sock puppets, trolling their forum, now were all in collusion and running a youtube account under the disguise of Anonymous !!
Of course we all know this is not true, but they do love to have someone to blame.

The members of that cult are true paranoid conspiracists, they have no idea who it is so they start blaming every one they can think of who speaks out against them.
I have been watching this YT channel and reading a lot of the replies and they are just blaming anyone then changing their minds and blaming someone else.

Now everyone is responsible. haha funny

I have my suspicions that that "Anon2Everyone" YouTube account (or whatever it's called) is in fact Plautus Satire, but I have no knowledge that's the case and it doesn't really matter.

Why do the ZM members think we have nothing better to do but make stupid videos ripping off Anonymous's campaign against Scientology? (Although I do like some of the videos, and I did favorite one). Jeez, they really do think we're behind everything, don't they?

On second thought I guess that makes sense. They're mostly conspiracy theorists, so naturally they see evil conspiracies behind everything.

Indeed TZM/TVP need external enemies being CS I have to say.

To be in the Zeitgeist movement and Venus project which is one of the most wasteful things you could possibly do is to be completely indoctrinated in the idea that what you are learning is actually going to have any impact towards this world and actually has some type of relevance to anything. So when Conspiracy Science gets comments from cult members from the Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project that try to debunk the aspects they talk about; it becomes quite clear to me that the reason they have such an objection is really a emotional one. It isn’t a objective aspect, they have culminated a identity to themselves because of their belief system, and for Conspiracy Science to take that away from them to debunk their ideas of Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project is to take away their identity.

In the end The TVP/Zeitcult movement is based on conspiracy theory's, it's not really a surprise they would start pointing fingers every which way at anything...

I do watch the anon youtube channel one of the videos I like is the "Dr feelgood explains the Cult Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project" (link below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH5sIqnSpRM

I think it says a lot that someone has to hold their tongue elsewhere out of fear of being punished -- that doesn't sound like freedom to me.