Skeptic Project

[EDIT] Glitch, it was fixed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/business/businesstruth/energy_and_environment/6173543/Industrialise-countryside-with-wind-farms-or-face-blackouts-by-2016-Government-energy-adviser.html</p>

Shouldn't we be building power stations at least in the UK to avoid this 2016 diaster.. (And with a power station at the end of my road just denied planning permission, the eco-greens are winning and we are losing..)

911 teaches the that tall buildings and airplanes don't mix well, hence part of the reason I'm keen on earth sheltered buildings..

> If someone came at me with a box cutter, I would probably get cut.
> But I probably wouldn't let them hijack the plane I was on.

Trouble is, people on the whole are so apathetic, its quite likely there was no one onboard at the time willing to do that.

I see that kind of situation repeatedly myself on public transport when someone is attacked, no one else wants to get involved or help.

> Move on.

Often good advice that!

> The Zeitgeist Movement makes forum posts about why donating
> to Haitian relief efforts are bad.

That reminds me of the, how to solve world hunger solution they had, finally I thought "Oh great, they want to do something!" only to be told, they wasn't going to solve world hunger, but tell everyone else how to..

Which wouldn't have been so bad, if the things they was telling them went beyond RBE is great..

> I think there are a lot of people in TZM that don't realize
> eating food requires money, because it just magically appears
> in their parents' refrigerators.

How very true. (Or given to them by the state..)

> self-education can be very powerful.

Agreed.

> hes assuming that a major of TZM people live with their parents,
> which unless he polled like 1000 members, would be hard to assume.

Having polled hundreds, if not thousands of members by now, I reckon its a fair analysis.

> peter is simply 1 member in a movement of no leaders.

If that was the case, then others would be able to make the rules too, last time I checked I don't think I got to make any of them..

> He isn't a leader. He just sells the DVDs, tshirts, tickets and
> bans people on the forums.
>
> EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then how come the rest of us aren't allowed to sell DVD's, T-shirts and other things too..

> Would a leader really sell t-shirts?

I don't see why not offhand, it brings in some money, help pay for the website..

> you could hack the forums, burn all the DVDs, crash the teamspeak
> server, kidnap PJ, but the movement would continue because the ideas
> are to unite humanity with mother earth - and that exists within all
> of us.

I doubt that is true, why you ask, well..

Anyone remember FreeNationFoundation ?

They grew like TZM, was popular, only got taken over by one person who then closed the site down, and everyone vanished for several years..

Until TZM started up and then some of the old folk from there appeared and the whole process started again..

So I rather worry that efforts like this are rather fragile, and we need to develop more resources so we are not so easily taken down.

> theres no way of you knowing what kind of effort every member of
> TZM does on a daily basis.

There is, just ask them!

Simple answer is, not much thats productive or useful, and mostly a waste of time and effort.

> talking to my neighbor. making artwork about how humanity can
> live. making songs, poetry. making movies. having parties,
> celebrating our peace. whatever.

I might suggest good ways to educate are, building power stations, low cost housing, starting businesses, creating jobs, helping people find work, start a bank, etc. etc.

> how to cooperate.

That is a useful one for sure.

> the "Article" in OP clearly says only a fraction of the members
> are on the forum...

Lucky me to have chatted to hundreds of people who don't use the forums over the last, lets see, 5 or 6 years, who do even less than those on the forums..

> start your own forum if you want to talk about things.

Its very inefficient to have so many different forum systems, far better if there is one central system we can all share. (Don't believe me it can be done, why I know of such systems over 20 years old, that allow many different voices to have their own seperate part and not annoy each other, and yet be more efficient.)

Its such a shame that the scientific process isn't very evident in being applied to forum use like that.

Its also, whilst I remember, such a shame that for some reason, no one seems to take notice of anyone with tons of experience in various areas, well, few on TZM, who rather rubbish it as if its just 'opinion'.

Same goes for IQ, no ones smart they say, just educated..

No ones a gifted athelete, its just training..

> Its the whole idea that you need to be a "part" of something to
> make a difference is dumb.

Its to do with effiency, otherwise all of us doing our own thing, disjoined from each other, repeating the same mistakes, not sharing resources.

Being somewhat on the same page, having overlaps and generally helping each other with high effiency things, like say sharing a single forum, website, headed notepaper/etc. really does help.

> What happens when Merola and the members get big enough and
> overthrow the government

Well, if that was to happen, I@m not sure there will be anyone skilled enough to run things..

> make a new user name and dont bring up whatever got u banned before.

Thats not very honourable making a new user name when your banned.

Sadly, if I was to do that, about the only thing I could talk about that wouldn't get me banned is probably the weather..

> I hope for a worldwide consciousness shift each and every day i
> wake up in the morning.

I used to somewhat hope for something like that, basically that people would learn to cooperate more.

Now I realise, there are very few of us willing to cooperate, and its best not to waste time with the majority who steadfastly refuse to do anything but look after number one.

The solution, ironically is to use money to pay them to do what it needed to help their lives and everyone else!

> we can resolve the differences you had with the moderator.

Sadly most of whats left of the moderators could only be resolved by sacking them.

> smoking is bad for you.

Agreed!

> i communicate with most members via facebook and mailing lists.

Do you have any links to those mailing list logs so the rest of us can see whats been said and not miss out on anything useful.

> there exists laws against having slave children today

I should have used that line when my parents told me to wash their cars!

> Are you suggesting that they like it due to problems attaining
> resources or monetary issues?

Having studied the subject a little, I would actually say yes, some of it is due to lack of resources/money.

> My point is that most members of The Venus Project have not
> taken into account the possibility of deviant behavior.

Indeed.

(They always get upset when I point out we'll still need police.)

> why can you train an animal to do almost anything?

Because you have a big stick ?

Actually, animals do have limits..

Its perhaps more obvious if you look at dogs:

http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html</p>

http://petrix.com/dogint/1-10.html</p>

> 1 Border Collie

http://petrix.com/dogint/70-79.html</p>

> 79 Afghan Hound

Now, try training an Afgan Hound to do the same things as border Collie..

Now think, differences in human abilities due to genes, just like different breeds of dogs.

Some you can train to be airline pilots, some not..

> pedophilia.

Lets not also forget that legal age differs from country to country, so whats pedophilia one side of the border isn't in another, so its not entirely clear cut until you get to the lower age levels.

> It seems like the only way to prove an RBE would dissolve deviant
> behavior would be to start a small city, have some children, and
> raise them in the environment to see how they react.

Agreed!

And is why I'm keen to build communities, test out different solutions, document results and let us decide upon that what direction to ultimately head in, eg. with what works in practice.

Then it doesn't matter so much about theories, only results from experiments..

> and yes, starting with a small city and growing is part of the
> plan for a RBE... as such with the scientific method...
> hypothesize, test, analyze, repeat.

Thats good to hear!

Can we start building now please..

> RBE would not only eliminate pedophilia

I reckon it would reduce it, but I doubt elimate.

> the #1 thing u can do to make someone violent is send them
> to prision.

I'd say practically all of the people I know who went to prison was violent long before they went there!

> if you google "nature vs nurture", you will see that both
> environment and genes affect us. It is not one or the other.

Agreed.

And of course, testing approaches to community running can help us figure out which things we can change with environment and which we cannot.

> i KNOW that pedophiles are MADE not BORN

I've watched animals (My parents used to breed dogs.) being brought up in the same envrionment and every now and then you get a dud so to speak, one that behaves differently, not because of anything different in how they was treated, they was just born that way.

It is, after all, how evolution works..

> What are we going to do about stopping the Zeitgeist Movement
> from promoting conspiracy theories? That is the only relevant
> issue to me in this entire topic.

Find something better for people to spend their time on and let it die a natural death in the meantime ?

Three watch this video

title: Dr feelgood explains the Cult Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH5sIqnSpRM

Nanos:

911 teaches the that tall buildings and airplanes don't mix well, hence part of the reason I'm keen on earth sheltered buildings.

Well first of all the WTC buildings probably wouldn't have collapsed if they had a concrete core with concrete reinforced floors, good fire protection and better sprinklers.

But the reason they didn't build it that way was to maximise office space. They didn't even have any concrete in the floors separating offices, it was all dry wall you could punch your hand though. I mention this because there is a reason we build tall buildings which is to maximise space.

We won't have enough room for everything if we don't build UP, we just need to do that safely and not compromise.

@ed.... you could make a list much longer than that, but accomplishments does not = leadership.

@Muertos... quite simply... im not going to. the movies arent the movement. :)

@ed.... you could make a list much longer than that, but accomplishments does not = leadership.

He created the ZGM, he creates the policies and rules, he decides who is an official follower and he tests people to join the official ZGM forums on HIS material HE wrote.

If that is not the definition of a leader then NOTHING is.

"Then why do all the Zeitgeisters hand it out as standard?"

because they're awsome movies! if someone in the movement made a better DVD i would hand that one out!!! DUURRRRRR

9/11 WAS AN OUTSIDE JOBZZZZZZZ

I REFUSE TO BE TERRIFIED!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KG7aDumdBs

Hey dude, you still don't understand science. I don't care about your sex life.

three, what do you find awesome about Zeitgeist 1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2nxCp9Hwxs SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!! FOUNDZ IT!!!!

@aaron, i really like the title.

9/11 WAS AN OUTSIDE JOBZZZZZZZ

You've said that many times now, and now you're typing it in caps.

Why do you keep doing that? You know you really are acting like a crazy truther when you do that, right?

because they're awsome movies! if someone in the movement made a better DVD i would hand that one out!!! DUURRRRRR

1. They are not awesome movies, they are full of lies and falsehoods. That is what we are telling you, your movement are spreading lies and pseudoscience.

2. I think District 9 is an awesome movie but I wouldn't hand it out while asking people to join the Zeitgeist Movement.

3. The Zeitgeist films use the same music, Peter's voice over, the same graphic design and in Addendum literally advocates the Zeitgeist Movement at the end.

4. There is no disclaimer anywhere either on the ZGM website or on the Venus Project website that disassociates the content in the films from the Movement.

5. Therefore you are a complete contradiction but I feel your mentality of saying that Peter isn't a leader, the movies aren't the movement but have no problem handing them out is common to most of the members. I'm so glad I stopped associating with such an illogical bunch of incompetents.

I'd still love for you to tell us what SPECIFICALLY Peter would need to do differently that would make him a leader. Because I can't see anything he is doing right now that doesn't already define him as a leader.