Skeptic Project

Again, three professes a belief that he embodies some special quality that is imperceptible to the posters here.

Despite professing a belief that we are all equal.

Since I know you won't look at the canned responses topic, I'll paste what someone (a former ZM member, I believe) said about your remarkable message discipline:

It's because they're only going off of what Peter says in his videos. They lack the expertise themselves so they have to rely on what he says to refute counter-arguments.

@Muertos OMG NO WAY!!! IT MUST REALLY BE A CULT THEN!

no, i admitted i was wrong when i called Captain ignorant.

> Well first of all the WTC buildings probably wouldn't have
> collapsed if they had a concrete core with concrete reinforced
> floors, good fire protection and better sprinklers.

Oh I agree completely! (Having had a bit of an interest in architecture since I was about 4..)

> the reason they didn't build it that way was to maximise
> office space.

I imagine you might have read more about the complaints in the days it was being built, that they was cutting corners, and that they specifically went for a team of architects who said they could do it, when the rest said their approach was not safe.. (I found only one reference to a newspaper article about that online, but apparently it was in all the newspapers of the time, so there might well be more stuff laying around someplace.)

> we have no rituals....

Z-Day perhaps.. :-)

> because they're awsome movies!

FX [ shudder ]

FX [ looks around and wonders if he is going to get banned for that.. ]

> if someone in the movement made a better DVD i would hand that
> one out!!

Thats good to hear at least!

So all we have to do is create a better movie and it will be handed out, excellent.

> http://www.youtube.com

Have you noticed how hardly anyone does their own visuals these days, its always pinched from someone elses work, whatever happened to origionality!

And why even use visual.. whats wrong with just voice, or even shock horror, words!

> 1. They are not awesome movies

To be slightly fair, its all Fresco has to work with.

If people, someone! would produce something better, perhaps he would go with that..

> peter doesnt want to be a leader. he said that.

Thats fair enough.

I don't want to be a leader either, I'd be more than happy to retire and spend my time on the beach eating toasted cheese sandwhiches.

But someones got to save the world before then..

> 2nd he would need people to follow him

I'm happy to follow anyone thats doing a good job, I really hoped that PJ would listen to lots of peoples suggestions and adjust his solutions accordingly, but for some reason he doesn't like to listen and take note. (A common problem I notice with leaders..)

> do you realize im making fun of YOU guys when i say 9/11 is
> an outside job?

Its good to see your not taking everything seriously.

Me, it matters less to me, and more whether I can get a job tomorrow or tomorrow to pay my bills.

> "can i have my DVD back"

You know, if TZM gave out recordable DVD's (Remind me, do we have those yet..) then folk could reuse them and the pollution factor woudln't be so bad!

Even, you could hire them out.. each DVD comes with a film on the A side, and TZM material on the B side..

Then you'd cover your costs, even make a profit!

So much more you could do than just to hand out DVD's..

> noobs who powerpost are generally considered trolls.

Or people who can just type a lot.. (He says prone to powerposting just about everywhere..)

> you just keep feeding me.

Its called debate :-)

I know, its something you don't see much on the TZM forums, but out in the real world it happens a lot, and its a good way to learn from each other.

> they chant together in a house of "prayer."

TZM equaliviant is the pub.. (I've been to one of their meetings..)

> i've made my own zeitgeist handouts and given them to hundreds
> of people. does this mean im a leader of a cult?

Can we have a read of one ?

FX [ wonders if it got PJ approval.. ]

> he will be replaced, and so will his replacement.

Can we upgrade him now please :-)

> when the time comes

I think the time the now, its now that we should go out, earn lots of money, buy land, build the future and move into it.

Or we could wait..

Mmm... lets see, which is more likely to change the world..

> Three is possibly one of the worst people I have ever heard trying
> to argue for it.

Oh I disagree there!

I've met far worse, three at least has some crossover areas of agreement that I reckon are not common TZM and just needs a little teasing out of his/her shell to agree to various points in more detail. (For example, they mentioned that building a research city is good, so is a research town good too ? a village ? a hamlet ? a couple of houses ? a single house.. ?)

At what point will they say, no thats not acceptable..

Or maybe they won't, maybe they will agree that we can start with an online community right now and start researching!

> hate Mr. Joseph and the movement.

I don't hate it.

I just think its not working very well, and that PJ, for all his good intentions, needs to hire someone better for the job, or at the very least, stop sacking staff doing a good job!

> he did nothing but make himself look like a CT.

Actually I think it did help him look and perhaps act a little more open, more so than say PJ who tends to hide away more..

VTV chalked up a note of respect to me for at least coming here and fighting his corner.

> maybe you dont realize how hard it is to talk on a forum when
> its 1 vs 10.

Oh I do, having spent years being me V 10,000's, your doing fine, just if you can answer everyones points (Including mine!), then I imagine we'll be all the more happier as we struggle to find solutions.

> Merola did a very good job of indoctrinating you all to
> regurgitate them thoughtlessly whenever anyone challenges
> the Zeitgeist Movement.

You know, I've seen that kind of indoctrination elsewhere, I'm even friends with someone that does it, and he does a good job of turning folk from, well, I'm not sure what they was beforehand.. but into rabid dogs of war, able to speel out what he tells them is the truth.

They are great for handing out DVD's, but not very good at debate..

I sometimes wonder, if I did that, could I get folk to dig ditches and build communities...

But thats rather unethical isn't it..

And thats not really me.

But then, is paying people to do that, also somewhat unethical ?

Being that most folk don't want to dig foundation ditches..

Just, unless we can find folk to do that, not much is going to get built.

> im also a computer programmer for my full time job. a job that
> is 100% logic based.

Don't forget the artistic element as well, the beauty of code done one way to another. (30 years programming here.)

Perhaps thats why you still appear to have some logic in your arguments, I for one would like to focus on what we have in common.

> do i have to pay for this therapy session?

Nah its ok, on the internet group therapy is free!

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6469/flyergb.gif

i GUESS you could say zday is a ritual, but then any gathering of any organization is a ritual. doesn't seem logical to me.

> no one is taking you seriously.

I take them a bit seriously.

> any gathering of any organization is a ritual.

True.

But more so if its a non-productive event.

Eg. I could have gone to every single TZM meeting, and we wouldn't be any further along than if I had just stayed at home and done something else, to me that is a sign of a ritual. (Incidently, I've been to plenty of management meetings that are just the same thing... but then I've also chaired management meetings that are nothing like that and was very productive in fixing things!)

For example, this meeting here, could be described as a ritual, but hopefully it can be productive..

So, you think we should build a research city then ? (Going back to an earlier point you mentioned..)

But Matt, people go to college every day and "learn" things they will never use. So is academia really education?

The city is step 3 and they are sticking to phase 1 until peter has an overwhelming majority of people who believe his and jacques unsubstantiated claims.

Step 3 will not happen anytime in your lifetime

quite simply we live in a monetary system and we dont have money to buy the land. simple as that.

"Step 3 will not happen anytime in your lifetime"

can you prove that? no, go away.

> Step 3 will not happen anytime in your lifetime

See, when I look at examples like this:

http://www.findhorn.org

Built already..

I think, we could do that right now.. (Actually they started in the 1960's didn't they..)

Especially when I look at how much money people are wasting pay rent, mortgages, all that money could be put to far better use paying for our own community and not going into the pockets of rich landlords, shareholders or people with pensions..

> that doesn't mean planning is not productive.

Agreed!

I've been planning for a while, things like how to design a bathroom so the floor doesn't get all wet. (A drain..)

"no, go away."

Who the fuck do you think you are?

Funny how your equality flies out the window when disagreement rears its head. Even from someone friendly towards Zeitgeist like Nanos is.

Edit: anticultist posted that, not Nanos. Oh god I have to admit error, it hurts so bad.

Not really though.

@Matt - telling somehow to quit interrupting a discussion with insults is not degrading our equality. its advice, like you so willingly spew.

@nanos - its a general number, an estimate, but there need to be enough people that reject the current system in order for it to fail.