Skeptic Project

Anyone noticed that when someone makes a post that should turn the page to the next number it doesnt show?

Bit of a bug I have noticed recently, I am making this post so I can see Matts previous post which is not showing on page 23, all I can see is my last post on page 22. Curious bug.

"Its such a shame that effort was directed towards things like, convert everything into a zillion different languages, rather than lets get the basic structure sound first."

Are you describing the forum or the movement?

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Are you talking about my forums or TZM forums?

I haven't experienced that problem, and unless I can replicate it, I can't fix it.

Yeah, its a real bug Edward.

If someone replies at the very end of the thread, the new page will not show up in the forum index until another person posts.

Its quite odd.

Hey man, we're just asking questions! THIS IS AMERICA STILL, ISN'T IT?

The only inside job I'm interested in is creampie movies.

Does Acharya get one, Matt?

Plus you may have an oopsie.

No, I'd rather mutilate myself than use Joomla and mutilate my server.

Good film. Instead of being stupid, I think they'd be pseudo-intellectuals.

I imagine something like the third part of Gullivers travels, a bunch of people with "faith" in science, great visions and theories, but absolutely no practical results.

>> Even after the movement has enough supporters, what short-term results would one expect to see? The Venus Project (TVP) concept is a global one.

So was the workers revolution, and that didn't begin until nearly 70 years after the Communist Manifesto was published. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing a TVP/TZM = Marxism thing, but as far as history goes, it's really hard to sell ideas that go against the establishment in such a huge way, even if there's broad support for them.

Even if TZM had 50 million members, they still would never change anything, because the entire organization is based upon being actionless and spreading the word. The next step after spreading the word simply seems to be change the world, as if this could be done if everyone simply saw Zeigeist: Addendum and/or ZIII.

Even the communists knew that the state wouldn't give up power without force, yet we're supposed to just trust that people will blindly accept TVP and allow the change the happen. If TZM was ever an actual threat to state power, they'd go the way of The Black Panther Party.

>> It's much easier to sit on the sofa, eat Cheetos, and just worry about what's on TV tonight.

Isn't that what most TZM members do -- oh, I'm sorry, add "post on forums" to that list. When is TZM going to show they're even capable of doing anything at all except talking big and making videos?

"What does one expect? The first stage in any movement is spreading the word and getting a large enough group of supporters."

You're not going to get that many supporters w/o clear evidence for your moneyless society. And there is a difference between saying that we can use a few more efficient technologies and saying that we don't really need to restrict access to resources or reward labor.

"TVP is a complete switch for the whole planet. It's all or nothing ("nothing" being something non-TVP)."

That strategy is impossible to accomplish. My buddy .hex already discussed that a couple of time,
A: RBE has to be global
B: Nothing that hasn't been tested before will ever be applied globally

A is a prereq of B & B is a prereq of A.

"But your ideas are bad." -Matt the Liberal.

My ideas? Why are you making this personal? They're not my ideas. I'm just trying to have a logical discussion.

Which ideas are bad, and why are they bad? Are you speaking for everyone's opinions of The Zeitgeist Movement's ideas, or is it just your opinion.

"Being a condescending ass doesn't jive well with wanting to save the world, bro." -Matt the Liberal.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending. I often hear people talk about how screwed up the world is, but then the comment something like, "But what can we do?", and then just go back to supporting a system they don't like or believe is sustainable for the future. Like Newton's law of motion, a body at rest will stay at rest until an outside force acts on it.

It takes courage to put a contrary opinion out there, especially ideas that are so radical. It's much easier to do nothing unusual and try to enjoy life as it is, believing that nothing can be changed. Thankfully there are enough people who don't accept the status quo or we might still be ruled by monarchs.

"Even if TZM had 50 million members, they still would never change anything, because the entire organization is based upon being actionless and spreading the word. The next step after spreading the word simply seems to be change the world, as if this could be done if everyone simply saw Zeigeist: Addendum and/or ZIII." -Captain Ferseus.

"Never" is a strong word. The initial stage of the movement's is actionless. It must be this way. I don't think the movement has a next step, but stage 2 is certainly not the whole world switching over to TVP. There must be steps in between, but it is impossible for TZM to clearly state what those steps will be. It's a grass-roots movement, and ideas for future stages will arise from the people as the concepts are discussed.

It would be nice to see the movement's complete plan for the world to switch to a RBE, but they don't have one, at this point, they don't need one, and if there was one, it would pre-maturely be under constant attack. At this point, it's hard enough for the supporters of the movement to fight off criticism's of the general ideas, let alone try to pitch a complete path.