Skeptic Project

"I haven't seen the film, obviously, so I can't comment on the content"

"rofl. ignorance fail."`

three: Which film do you think he was referring to?

haha knee jerk by three me thinks

It's ok, three. Ferseus is actually the person who created the Zeitgeist movie debunkings. I'm fairly certain that he's seen them.

"yea, i thought he was talking about the first two of the Zeitgeist films. I might be wrong. "

rofl. ignorance fail.

"I am of the mind set (with everything in my life) that you need to believe something is possible before it can be possible. Once you say "i cant" or "we cant" it instantly becomes true."

Stupid law of gravity. If I didn't know it was there I could fly.

Hi three, I wrote the TZM article and the movie articles.

>> I am a member of the ZM, pretty causal/passive about it for the most part. I hand out DVD's here and there, give them to friends that are interested, and post permaculture, sustainability, enlightenment, and other stuff to my social media outlets.

I guess you're lucky I'm not like Peter Joseph, otherwise I'd ban you and delete your post since you disagree with me.

>> I spend time at a local green house that provides food for inner city families. I will also be moving to a permaculture eco-community in California next spring. for a living i do web development and design.

I'm glad to hear it.

>> I think its SO EASY to say, "look at the TZM, they are _doing_ anything"... I would have to agree to a certain extent. we aren't building a city yet - but we dont have the resources (money, in todays world).

Even the Black Panther Party had far more success with helping people, and most members were in a dire state of poverty, I don't see an excuse other than sitting on a forum is easier.

>> I'm sure im not the only one that thinks some major changes are in store for us in the coming years (2012, peak oil, etc etc), and I think TZM will be free to ACT once people understand the financial (and other) institutions for what they really are.

2012, you're joking, right?

>> I'm sure we've all heard "teach someone to fish, and you've fed them for a life time" - well i feel like spreading the information about TZM and the VP is like teaching someone to fish.

Yes, and I'll agree once TZM teaches people anything at all.

>> It can set them free, and give them true perspective on the struggles in their life.

Sitting on a forum? Handing out DVDs?

>> Simply volunteering at a soup kitchen once a month really doesn't fix anything, and only allows people to hang by a thread in this corrupt society. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

It keeps people from starving in the street, which does something. Like I said, TZM loves to talk about how many children will starve to death today, they seem content to let it happen.

>> I know you guys really hate TZM, and thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Yes, I'm just griding my teeth and punching out my monitor.

>> yes, it probably seems very unrealistic, and the points made about removing all barter are true.

I'm a technocrat which is fairly close to TVP and I was raised an anarchist; it isn't remotely unrealistic to me.

>> It will be very hard to do that - and will take generations and generations to remove. But if your concern is how people will exchange unique works of art, you're really missing the point.

That's what worries me and that's what seperates Marxism from other post-industrial ideas, that it takes generations to start therefore we should trust someone else to help move us there -- I don't have to mention why this hasn't worked many times in the past.

>> I am of the mind set (with everything in my life) that you need to believe something is possible before it can be possible.

I think it *is* possible. That's what Peter Joseph doesn't like his members knowing about me. I'm the most widely known critic of TZM on the Internet, yet ironically I believe many of the same things and have the same goals.

>> Once you say "i cant" or "we cant" it instantly becomes true.

I agree, but I never said "we can't" in fact my point was that it is possible to do these things, but the why you're trying to do them is counter productive and won't work.

>> I had many of the same reservations that you all have when i joined the movement, but my mind and my heart tell me that humanity CAN live as one.

I won't ever join the movement until it removes pseudoscience and has leadership accountability.

@three:

Setting aside the Venus Project, I'm curious as to your beliefs on the subjects of the first Zeitgeist film.

Do you believe Jesus existed?
Do you think 9/11 was an inside job?
Do you think bankers rule the world?

>> I've heard tell of possible Solar Storms

The predicted solar storms are in reality not larger than bigger ones we've had in the past, even in the 90s.

>> or other natural disasters.

Most natural disasters can't be predicted, so are you saying you believe an astroid is coming or in something more supernatural?

>> Ron Paul possibly being elected would certainly shift consciousness.

The civil rights movement was more of a shift in consciousness, and even then many, many, many people still didn't follow through, in fact many people are still racist as hell.

>> Then why dont you step up and lead? whats stopping you? Maybe we need your help? it's easy to point fingers at PJ and say hes some tyrannical leader.

Lead what? a conspiracy movement? I'm actually working with a former TZM moderator on starting something for ourselves.

>> What is your solution for how the ZM should proceed?

I listed 5 points I think would be good in the article.

>> Knowledge, (DVD, information on a forum) does set people free.

But it's not knowledge when you blatantly lie to people, then turn around and claim that the DVDs have nothing to do with the movement after using them to recruit people.

>> It has opened my eyes, and i have learned A TON of information about how the economy works, how banks work, and how to free ourselves.

There are so many ways you can show people how things are screwed up without lying to them, and the movies do the exact opposite. It does not explain how the economy works, it incorrectly explains how banking works, and freeing yourselves by blindly trusting PJ and TVP.

>> No one is content to let starvation happen - that is something you made up in your head because you equate no physical labor to build a city to liking starvation.

So, then why do nothing unless you can make TVP happen? You obviously do something with the green houses, why do that at all if you're so certain that it's a waste of time?

>> What pseudoscience are u talking about?

The countless 9/11 posts, that the Haiti earthquake was man-made, over unity machines, etc.

>> 2012 will change because people will lose faith in the government

Based on what? They just will? I hate to break it to you, people lost faith in government decades ago.

>> thats going to eradiocate technology completely.

Well, then we won't have Internet forums to change the world, we'll have to rely on organizing with our communities, something many of the aspies in TZM seem unwilling to do without (in their words) "the good kind of brainwashing."

Also, three, are you going to respond to my points above?

>> What did PJ lie about re: banking system?

I talk about it in my Zeitgeist articles.

>> Helping in the green houses is a part of removing dependence on the industrial food complex, the reason there is starvation and hunger in the first place. it's not pointless.

The industrial food system has actually fed more people than regular agriculture ever could. Even Fresco wants complete industrialization and automation of food production and preparation. The reason there is starvation and hunger is because people don't have the capital to buy food, it has nothing to do with industrialization. They can't often grow food in their areas because of overpopulation, drought, and many other reasons so they need to be able to get it from elsewhere, which they can't, regardless of industrialization.

>> i look forward to your full length documentary.

I don't make movies, and if I did, they wouldn't be conspiracy movies so they wouldn't work like Zeitgeist. And hey, the "movies aren't the movement" so are you admitting they actually are?

I said 2012 COULD eradicate technology completely. Clearly, you all jumped on the 2012 thing like ravage dogs. If you don't think humanity is approaching some sort of change with the financial situation in Europe, and the oil spill, and the tea party, and all these other things. I was offering 2012 as one example. and NO, i dont think something will happen on the stroke of midnight Dec 21st or whatever. I think 2012 will be a big year for real change in the world. that is all.

Civility diminishing. Will to continue posting is failing....

"I don't make movies, and if I did, they wouldn't be conspiracy movies so they wouldn't work like Zeitgeist. And hey, the "movies aren't the movement" so are you admitting they actually are?"

- I never implied your movie would be a conspiracy movie, or that it would be like zeitgeist, or that the movies are the movement. I will rephrase my question.

I look forward to hearing more about your direction via whatever medium you see fit.

>> I look forward to hearing more about your direction via whatever medium you see fit.

Well, we're doing our best to make it as clear as possible before launching, plus the guy I'm working on it with (Brenton Eccles) is currently busy with other things, so we have some ways to go.

>> and im serious, if you have a better solution i am 100% open to it.

I'm glad to hear that, I just hope you don't lose your civility before then.

I pick 2012 because this year is half over and I think change will happen soon, so 2012 is a good bet.