Skeptic Project

I'm getting toward a 'wall of text' now, so I'll stop. If you want any elaboration/sources let me know.

Why not write a book about it? That's what I had planned after "leaving" TZM, it's just easier to start from scratch and collect all valid material yourself than try to repair a group as dysfunctional as TZM.

Look Zeitard, Thrive has replaced TZM's status as the current Internet crank religion to mock. Accept your insignificance and fuck off.

Quote from unfathomable_bo


I did say I was wrapping things up, but this is a shockingly absolutist statement.

I'm okay with that. You mad?

Quote from unfathomable_bo

As I have said, it is a perfectly reasonable position to hold that TZM has some positives and some negatives, as well as some intelligent members and some crazy ones; this is generally the way of most things. But you must see the gross oversimplification in saying such lazy and one sided blanket statements. I could possibly see such statements being used against the likes of Alex Jones, but with a body of study as wide as TZM, and all the swathes of legitimate and illegitimate literature which it references, it is not critical thought in the slightest to dismiss all the points raised as "conspiracy" by "nutjobs" - I hope you understand this.

You can hold whatever position you want, but don't expect reciprocation here. You are under the assumption that we are here to discuss how to change the world, we aren't. What TZM says in regards to "changing the world" is irrelevant to us. What is relevant is the fact that TZM is the moonbat version of right wing conspiracy movements. Your walls of text don't change that.

So let me spell it out for you. We debunk conspiracy theories and pseudoscience. We don't fantasize about changing the world.

Quote from unfathomable_bo


, as well as some intelligent members and some crazy ones; this is generally the way of most things.

Intelligence offers no special immunity to irrational beliefs.

Quote from unfathomable_bo


Conversely, it is far more difficult but far more honest to take a pragmatic approach as I have done and accept that it is a flawed body of work which non the less raises some good issues. I really fail to see where I am being irrational at all.

Your walls of zeitard apologetic text do nothing for you here. Nobody gives a shit. You are being annoying more that anything else. I am also not buying your bullshit, why would you come on this forum and make such a big deal about TZM? So I'm curious, which conspiraciy theories do you adhere to?

Quote from RealScience

Quote from Agent Matt

Look Zeitard, Thrive has replaced TZM's status as the current Internet crank religion to mock. Accept your insignificance and fuck off.

Didn't think it could get much worse...

First rule of conspiritard society, it can and will get worse.

Just make your own like the zeitards do:



something with a magic marker will suffice.

@anitcultist LOL.


@The Real Roxette

Yeah seriously, right now at you can buy a 100 DVDs FOR ONLY $1500. WHAT A BARGIN !!!!!!!!

hmmm

I have been nothing but polite, I have explained my stances and views reasonably. I have not been dogmatic or apologetic for any shortcomings of the movement. I have repeatedly stated that I do not "follow" or "believe in" the movement as some kind of immutable source of knowledge. I have openly stated that some ideas put forth are absurd and that the behaviour of some members is unacceptable.

All I have said is that there are some positive points are made, and pondered why the body of work is dismissed in its entirety despite this - that's it.

And yet from the first reply I have been met with childish insults (every time I hear people use the word zeitard I cringe for you), repeated blindly absolutist claims (they're ALL conspiracy theorists, they're ALL crazy, ALL their ideas are lies), I have been questioned as a conspiracy theorist simply for asking a straightforward question (talk about a witch-hunt). I have been asked numerous times to explain why I "believe" in an RBE, despite hammering the point home to a ridiculous degree that I do not fully support such an economy in its entirely.

I am not "clinging" to a movement or attempting to rationalise belief in it. I did not come here to proselytise or convert, or to "revive" a dead movement. I do not represent the movement and never have. I simply came here to ask an honest question.

Its clear that some of you here are intelligent and capable of critical analysis, but it is abundantly obvious that many of you are incapable of critical thought and still think in oversimplified absolutes (and are proud of it in some cases!). Ban my account if you want. I will not be back. This is not a sceptic site, some of you people struggle to peruse two conflicting views in you head at the same time. You struggle to keep the level of debate out of the gutter even when I am being as placid and reasonable as possible. I suggest to those who are able to rationally and critically discuss ideas with someone without yelling "zeitard" should move to a real sceptic forum.

I merely came here for a simple query as to why TZM is so derided. I have gotten my answer. Good luck guys, I'm sure you'll have fun with thrive or whatever its called.

I sure hope he means it about not posting again this time. I'm not sure I have it in me to glance over another one of his walls of texts and dismiss it without reading again.

Quote from unfathomable_bo

hmmm

I merely came here for a simple query as to why TZM is so derided. I have gotten my answer. Good luck guys, I'm sure you'll have fun with thrive or whatever its called.

Cool story bro

All I have said is that there are some positive points are made, and pondered why the body of work is dismissed in its entirety despite this - that's it.

There are useful and original ideas in TZM, but those that are useful aren't original and those that are original aren't useful.

You already pointed out that TZM got its ideas from other influential thinkers and mixed it together with a bunch of random idealism - why act surprised that nobody's willing to spend (serious) time on TZM, when you can get superior material directly from the source, i.e., from neo-communist thinkers like Marcuse and Agnoli, modern technocrats or even the speculative work of Keynes?

I'd be more than happy to debate capitalism, but choosing TZM as a frame is just opening it up to naive thinking about the supposedly untapped powers of social conditioning.

A real skeptic forum? One would hope he provided a good skeptic forum like Randi's, or the skeptic forum, where his notions about TZM would be met with the same derision and negativity as here. The probable only difference would be they would be subtle in their laughter at his claims.

It seems all that matters to this dude is when people are being realistic about their views on his claims and are not being gentle or holding back on their thoughts on how nonsense it is.


TZM fanboys are notoriously sensitive when their views are being challenged, and they particularly dislike being talked to like a real person would talk to them, they want people to respect their emotional well being, much like religious dicks do when you question their faith.



BTW thanks bill, did the avatar last night for fun.

Quote from 2012 CT

@unfathomable_bo

I suggest to those who are able to rationally and critically discuss ideas with someone without yelling "zeitard" should move to a real sceptic forum.

Decided to respond to this. I'd be more than happy to discuss this further. What website would you suggest? Maybe we can discuss this further on a debunking website I and a few others have setup maybe?

Hi Bill, I wanted to know if you could put a link up to the Skeptic website you made?

It shows us that he may of had a personal agenda coming here in the first place if he was aware of the site, its methods and the content that existed here before posting.

All he addressed was why we are meanies to TZM then left when we laughed at him. If he was a real skeptic he would have had much more to say about other material and stuck around, as well as acknowledged he was wrong.

I'm not really interested in butthurt drama. If you like some "other site" then fuck off and go there.

You chose to go apeshit in IRC and got a 12 hour ban as a result Bill. Suck it up and take your punishment.

<edited>
Who is Jenny anyway ?