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Forum - Any conspiracy that DID happen?
... according to you 'skeptics'
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 11:04 |
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 Level: 0 | Question to all you debunkers: Is there any LEGIT and IRREFUTABLE conspiracy that has been committed in the past 2 centuries, according to you? | |||||
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| CyborgJesus | Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 11:21 |
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 Level: 6 CS Original | 9/11 was a conspiracy planned and carried out by Muslim terrorists against the United States. Good enough? | |||||
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| Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 15:42 |
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 Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Yes. I believe there is a conspiracy to breed idiot children that will infest the Internet with ridiculous crap. You're proof of it. | |||||
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| Wolf Bird | Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 18:54 |
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 I shoot you dead. Level: 9 CS Original | Watergate. | |||||
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| Sabertooth | Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 21:22 |
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 Level: 0 | Iran-Contra. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 06:33 |
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Level: 0 | Let me ignore the remarks by retard trolls. The rest seems like legit answers. We should be able to come up with some more though. What about the coups in Bolivia and Venezuela (amongst many others)? Overthrow of Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953 and Sukarno of Indonesia in 1967? What about the introduction of the Federal Reserve Act in the US? (whatever you think of the federal reserve, the introduction was definitely conspiritorial). What about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Operation Northwoods, USS Liberty sinking? My point obviously being that if SO many conspiracies turned out to be true (and the people claiming conspiracy when they were not exposed yet also labeled 'idiots' etc., just like the people today that doubt official stories), why is it so hard to believe for most people on this forum that conspiracies can also happen today? In fact, it's almost a scientific certainty that they do. Why do some people fall for the same lies and tricks over and over again and even worse, ridicule the people that ARE in fact sceptical over and over again? Why is that? At least you can listen to what they have to say and dismiss the stories by simply agreeing to disagree. Why ridicule them? (even though some theories sound pretty ridiculous) | |||||
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| CyborgJesus | Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 06:58 |
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Level: 6 CS Original | Quote from Damarauder Of course they can. The problem is that CTers tend to assume a bidirectional correlation between "people claim there's a conspiracy" and "there is a conspiracy" that just doesn't exist. True, often when there's a conspiracy, some people blow their whistle long before the public discovery, but the inverse rarely holds. Why ridicule them? (even though some theories sound pretty ridiculous) You answer your own question. They make outrageous claims and only provide sketchy evidence, if any at all. | |||||
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| emcada | Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 14:35 |
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 Level: 0 | Quote from Damarauder You don't have to tell us that you're going to ignore someone you know. Quote from Damarauder Federal Reserve Act wasn't conspiratorial, unless you take the word of G. Edward Griffin literally which is stupid as the man believes that vitamin b17 is a cure for cancer. (oddly enough I think the story behind vitamn B17 is somewhat conspiratorial). Quote from Damarauder I think you might be missing the point and are making a pretty strong assertion in stating that people have been calling conspiracy. I honestly don't know if there were people shouting conspiracy like Alex Jones does or any other conspiracy theorist for that matter. It's not hard for us to accept that conspiracies happen today. If it was, the other members wouldn't have listed conspiracies themselves. We don't have a hard time accepting conspiracies happen http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5183/turns-out-the-government-sachs-conspiracy-theorists-were-ri/ We don't accept any Illuminati, NWO, Satan Worshipper, bullshit that has become infamous amongst conspiracy theorists. Those claims are extremely outlandish and just plain ridiculous. If you read the debunking of the Bohemian Grove you'll notice that yourself. As a matter of fact, the person with Alex Jones on that trip even notes that Alex saw what was happening in Bohemian Grove and just went completely nanners over what was happening. Alex basically saw something and then tried to take that something to fit in his world view. | |||||
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| Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 17:54 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | "Let me ignore the remarks by retard trolls."  | |||||
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| JimJesus | Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 18:32 |
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 Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪ Level: 3 | Quote from Damarauder RussiaToday News. | |||||
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| Evil Elvis | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 02:10 |
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 STFU! Level: 1 CS Original | exposure to sun over prolonged periods of time i bad for skin, i smell a conspiracy there. QUEEF. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 04:24 |
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Level: 0 | What I expected to find on this site was a forum to discuss CT's in an objective way. What I instead found is a small community of sheep, flaunting their wool to the other sheep, jerking off on rude comments and bleating over how much they all agree that everyone that's not wearing a wool coat is a retard. Nobody, perhaps with the exception of emcada, is seriously looking at historic facts nor is open to rational doubt of some events. Your style of debunking is lame. Simply because the following things are NOT equal to debunking: 1) Providing an alternative interpretation of facts. This is called a difference of opinion, but has nothing to do with debunking. 2) When a CT comes with 10 arguments to support some theory, you will pick out 4 that you can cast doubt on, or in some cases proof to be false. The other 6 arguments are conveniently ignored. This is also NOT debunking. 3) When you really cannot come up with anything substantial to refute some claim, you simply discredit the person making the claim. This is also NOT debunking. Hope you guys get off very pleasantly with your fellow pundits. I am 100% sure that 30 years from now, you're all debunking the contemporary CT's of 2042, while having to admit in some cases, back in 2012, the CT's were right after all. I am sure even then Elvis, Agent Matt and your fellow bigots are even to biased to admit that they have been wrong all along. Some simply lack the intellectual capacity to comprehend the role of self-interest in all layers of the society, including politics and lobbyists. | |||||
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| Evil Elvis | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 05:02 |
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STFU! Level: 1 CS Original | you have no arguments, you disregard facts that do not fit into your little conspiracy theory - yet you expect anyone to be serious? stay out of sun man, don't say i didn't warn about the effects when you get burnt. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 05:42 |
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Level: 0 | Quote from Evil Elvis Thanks for prooving my point. | |||||
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| Wolf Bird | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 06:17 |
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I shoot you dead. Level: 9 CS Original | Please show where one of your arguments got ignored in this post. http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5345/debunk-this/#reply-74ff6fc6 Please also read everything in the sidebars here http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/911/ and demonstrate how something, anything in any of the articles is wrong. And, please note that a few of us, myself included, answered the question you posed in this thread, that of real conspiracies that have happened. Watergate and Iran-Contra were two real conspiracies backed up by historical facts, both were incidents of corruption and self-interest in the political system. 9/11 is a conspiracy exactly how Cyborg described it. Just because we don't buy 9/11 conspiracy theories doesn't mean we all agree on everything and we all think the political/economic system is 100% perfect and free from problems, including people only looking out for themselves and their friends. | |||||
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| Sabertooth | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 10:04 |
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Level: 0 | There´s few more, like the CIA being important to overthrow Salvador Allende in Chile and Kissinger proposing to the Pentagon that the USA backed a Spanish invasion of Portugal during the 70s. | |||||
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| Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 10:36 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Quote from Damarauder | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 07:41 |
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Level: 0 | Hi Wolf Bird. Thanks for the constructive reply. I need some time to prepare an answer, but I will respond to the 9/11 debunk on this site shortly. About ignoring parts of my other post. That was not so much my point. My point was that the majority of responses did not even go into my points, but instead simply were rude foulmouthery or responses to side-issues that we're not even remotely relevant to my question (e.g. discrediting the site, responding to 1 out of several points I made). | |||||
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| JimJesus | Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 14:34 |
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Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪ Level: 3 | Quote from Damarauder The problems with your points, like all conspiracies, is that it looks at vary narrow data points (usually false or misunderstood) and tries to use that to disrupt a body of collected evidence that leads to another conclusion. This is no different than when creationists use things like Piltdown man or second law of thermodynamics to debunk evolution. Science doesn't work that way. Even if we accepted that there's a few discrepancies with 9/11, that has no bearing on the story overall. Twoofers are very much like creationists. Take a well established theory that's supported with a braod array of facts from various sources and multiple examinations and investigations, and just try to poke it with mostly meaningless things like "Ohh, no fires have ever taken down a building before!" Yea, well no one has ever died of 'gay cancer' before the 70's, doesn't make AIDS fake or a gubermint conspiracy. On the flip side, conspiracy films will just take a bunch of these and pile them up to make it sound like a compelling case that 9/11 WUZ AN INSAHD JERB!!!!!!!1!1!ONE!! When you look at the evidence it's mostly coincidental, distorted, displays a gross misunderstanding of physics and science, circumstantial or just total made up bullshit. Then, when you take a step back the overall story of he government rigging 3 buildings with tons of thermite and wire without anyone ever noticing for 8 years or having any practical real world testing to see if such a form of demolition could even work, swapping planes with drones, using living people as hijacker patsies that still walk among us today, and involving hundreds of thousands of people who all to this day remain quiet is absolutely insane. Seriously, how insane would you have to be to propose a massive cover up like that to your administration not even a decade before the last guy got nailed to a cross because he covered up getting a BJ in to oval office? You got terrorists that will crash planes into buildings for free, would of been easier to help them plan it but the Bush Administration would of been too incompetent to do that either. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 17:43 |
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Level: 0 | Quote from JimJesusQuote from Damarauder You hit the nail on the head there. Facts and their coherence are usually subject to subjective interpretation. Take 10 random facts and anybody can probably come up with a reasonable story that fits in all 10 facts. But you should not forget that this also happens on the other side, what is what I tried to point out. If a theory is corraborated by 10 facts, refuting 3 of those facts does not refute the theory. The only way to refute a theory effectively, is by coming up with 1 fact that 100% refutes the entire theory. In the 9/11 discussion I am probably on your side with lots of the theories (e.g. "swapping planes with drones, using living people as hijacker patsies that still walk among us today, and involving hundreds of thousands of people who all to this day remain quiet is absolutely"), but that alone simply does not let everyone off the hook, nor does it discredit some of the CT's. Just to be clear: a plot of 2 people to somehow benefit of 9/11, would qualify as a 'conspiracy' for me. And I would like to add: never underestimate the power of manipulation and self-interest. | |||||
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| JimJesus | Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 19:35 |
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Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪ Level: 3 | Would you be willing to make that exact came concession to creationism? Why or why not? | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 01:23 |
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Level: 0 | Hope I understood the question correctly, because I am not sure what concession you're referring to. There are no factual grounds for creationist theories, nor all religious interpretations as written in their scriptures. Another problem in my opinion is that the available theories do not necessarily exclude eachother (similar to some 9/11 events). Every creationist theory is either empirical or based on pure faith. The first is something seen in some 9/11 theories as well, the latter quite less, looking at all documentation and footage available. Based on the empirical evidence, I would say I am an atheist creationist :) | |||||
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| CyborgJesus | Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 06:07 |
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Level: 6 CS Original | > atheist creationist How exactly does that work? Is that like a poor Libertarian? | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 17:18 |
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Level: 0 | No that means I cannot believe that whatever it was that designed the universe and everything in it, would expect tiny elements in this vast and complex design, like us humans to 'worship' it. Add to this that I think the entire system is too magnificant, to have appeared out of nothing. Simply do not believe the designer, whatever or whoever it was, gives a shit about us humans. Our species is in fact, a quite useless cog-wheel. If there's any worshipping to be done, it should be done by minding our environment and treating it with care. So what's your stance on religion then? With a bit of fantasy, you could call it a conspiracy as well. | |||||
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| emcada | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 01:34 |
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Level: 0 | Quote from Damarauder Sounds more Deist if anything. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 05:40 |
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Level: 0 | Sounds more Deist if anything. Quickly read the wiki on Deism, and I guess I could be one of those. Had never even heard of the term. | |||||
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| The Real Roxette | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 08:09 |
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 There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain. Level: 8 CS Original | This topic derailed pretty damn far, but to respond to the OP, I think you're missing the point of the term "conspiracy theory." When someone charges that something is a "conspiracy theory" no one means a "theory about an illegal criminal conspiracy" what they're referring to is an alarmist hypothesis of a conspiracy which bases itself on little or no evidence. So asking us "any conspiracy that DID happen" is nonsensical, because if you mean criminal conspiracies, those happen everyday, anytime two or more people conspire to do something, but no one in the world calls the investigation of those "conspiracy theories." You're delusional if you think the term "conspiracy theory" applies to anything other than extreme, alternative views of events, typically with far reaching plots. What you're actually asking us is "are there any covered up major plots that actually are real?" And the answer is, if they're real, there is evidence, but I have a feeling there isn't any out there that have yet to be discovered. Muertos wrote a good thing about this whole thing, I just can't find it. | |||||
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| Damarauder | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 09:47 |
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Level: 0 | Conspiracy is a simply word, having several meanings http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy Same goes for theory http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory Based on those definitions my question was not too strange? (I did not ask for the theories, I was asking for the actual conspiracies.) | |||||
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| The Real Roxette | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 10:28 |
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain. Level: 8 CS Original | Quote from DamarauderHoly shit you completely ignored all that I said. You're not fooling anyone by trying to equate real criminal conspiracies with conspiracy theories, they're not the same at all, as I laid out above in plain english. | |||||
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| anticultist | Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 11:15 |
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 Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | He knows full well the implications of conspiracy theory in the modern public. If he is trying to allocate the conjoined words conspiracy and theory to their individual meanings and isolate that as the only or more important interpretation, or even trying to reinterpret it's actual meaning then he is unworthy of debate. The meaning of conspiracy theory is quite literally an unproven belief or claim that states two or more people have conspired to commit a world changing act of deception against the general public. It is always a pejorative when being used by the public talking about people who believe in them. It is always some far fetched idea based usually on the government or an exclusive elite group who are hijacking the planet or it's material possessions for their own benefits/ detriment to the population. To attempt to equate this type of belief system with that of a criminal conspiracy which is utterly different is disingenuous of you. | |||||
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