Skeptic Project

"Why do you think people believe conspiracy theories?"

Expanding upon what I said to Cyborgjesus about positive and negative conspiracy theories.

http://other.skepticproject.com/forum/5392/pronoid-conspiracy-theories/#reply-b0f6f204

It might be that people respond more emotionally to something negative than something positive as a negative emotion is more stronger than a positive.

I think it's rational (but not right) why someone would strategically choose to emphasize negative conspiracy theories as well as they churn a stronger emotional appeal in people than positive CT's. How can someone get a strong emotion up towards something like "People who regularly wear red clothing are responsible for certain foods being delicious." as opposed to "the government is going install computer chips in us so they can control us, like we are all cattle.". It's a primitive thing but it's much needed possibly self-preservation mechanism. We're not in immediate danger with the red clothing people that make food delicious but we're in immediate danger with the computer chip government people that want to control us. Therefore it's rational to focus on immediate negative dangers or in this case negative conspiracy theory than positive ones. Keep in mind positive or negative conspiracy theory's are just that conspiracy theories that are not based on any credible evidence.

Basically positive based conspiracy theories are a hard sell as to negative conspiracy theories when it comes to attracting a wider audience.

Going on the bases that most popular conspiracy theories have a strong negative and/or fear like emotional appeal that it triggers/instills in believers; This primal fear mechanism within us maybe a important reason why one believes in conspiracy theories or in that believe in anything more easily.

If a conspiracy theorist said a particular group of terrorists working with the government in the united states are a threat because they throw pies at everybody they deem as there enemies in the hope the pies will make there enemies overweight and have diabetes, would you take that seriously? If a conspiracy theorist said a particular group of terrorists in the united states are a threat because they throw pies at everybody they deem as there enemies as if one eats a pie it genetically alters ones DNA to make there enemies pass away more quickly, would you take that seriously? The first statement no one would take seriously however the second statement which among conspiracy theorists is more believable in conspiracy theory land. Alex Jones has actually came up with a conspiracy theory that's more absurd than a pie that genetically alters a persons DNA which is that juices boxes make you gay.

Alex Jones- Juice Boxes Are Making Kids Gay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtKT11WmQcY


None-rational or logical fear is what drives most popular conspiracy theories. If one can be skeptical and use logic and reason towards there thinking they will see through these conspiracy theories (or anything else) as conspiracy theories have no grounds in reality.


"It's always been puzzling, seriously where do they hear these things?

People can find out about conspiracy theories through anything nowadays this includes the history channel on tv as well as the internet. For me I never encountered conspiracy theories in such abundance and at that never encountered conspiracy theorist who believe in conspiracy theory's until I came across the Zeitgeist Movement. I always thought to myself how one can buy into such conspiracy theories but after observing TZM for a bit I now realize there are people out there that lack the skills necessary to see how none-rational (fringe thinking) there thinking is when it comes to conspiracy theories. This also confirms for me that negative conspiracy theories that are "the government, against the people" will tend to get believed more. The Zeitgeist Movement in-particular uses conspiracy theories to attract people to it's ranks suggesting 9/11 is a inside job, the NWO is out there it's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact. The Zeitgeist Movement at that Peter Joseph now are attempting to claim there a skeptically minded group but to be honest he's not fooling anybody who are real skeptics.

"what evidence (if any) do they base their theories off of?"

There is no proper evidence. They mostly make claims and anecdotal types of evidence but nothing that has been peer-reviewed by credible experts. The believe in it because it sounds somewhat plausible but they really never examined the evidence from a skeptical standpoint to see if holds it's own weight.


"and not to mention: why do they believe stuff like this?"

They believe in conspiracy theories because as I said above they lack the no howto be skeptical towards the information given. If someone uses logic and reason as well as examined works that are peer reviewed related, it would determine the validity of the claims.


"show them evidence to the contrary and they'll just attack you or your arguments. It almost seems as if they WANT to believe these things..."

True, I'll agree more times than not if you show them evidence that counters there belief system they will attack your arguments. As being a skeptic myself and trying to help none-rational (fringe thinkers) I've seen some nasty tactics by conspiracy theorists including posting up info on myself. I come to accept that this comes with the territory when dealing with conspiracy theorists.

To go back to what I said above as you may and other rational minded people may not see you as attacking to a conspiracy theorists you are attacking these people on a emotional level. It's not the fact that you have valid or invalid criticism, it's the fact you have any criticism at all towards there belief system that they get upset. It's like telling someone who believes in the Muslim religion that there religion is no good. Conspiracy theorists attack a debunk of there conspiracy theory because it affects them on a emotional level rather than a rational level as if they were rational they would answer the debunk with logic and reason rather than attack it; CT"s who attack usually use CT buzz word claims that you are a "paid shill", "dissinfo agent", "work for the FBI", "work for the CIA" etc....

Keep in mind as you will learn that trying to use logic and reason towards a conspiracy believer/s will fall on deaf ears, it's not about talking to them directly but more talking at them in a manner, it's about for me to have the information out there for people to examine. If a CT wants to change there belief system then great but it has to be up to them, in my opinion nothing a skeptic says who uses logic and reason can change a conspiracy theorists thoughts on a particular conspiracy theory they believe in when there in that type of mindset of none-rational thinking (fringe thinking). It's like trying to stop someone from believing in there religion. When it comes to conspiracy theories it's based entirely on none-rational fear based thinking (fringe thinking). It's not about doing good for the world and being the best morale person one can be, it's about fighting the Illuminati, making claims that the NWO is real and controlling us, that public school is brainwashing you so why try at all, It's about using illogical fear tactics to win over it's believes (ironically what some religions do). What hardcore conspiracy theorists have done is actually created a religious congregation based entirely on newage and conspiracy theory belief system. This can be seen in groups like Destinian or The Zeitgeist Movement in-particular.


"thoughts on this everyone?? why do you think people get sucked into the conspiracy theory bubble so quickly?"

Again my thoughts are people believe in fear based conspiracy theory's because they do not know how to think skeptically.

In general I would assume everybody is different therefore not everybody believes in conspiracy theories at the same pace. Some are more susceptible for one reason or the other, others are not easily convince, and then other that are skeptically minded won't be believers in CT's. It could be a variety of reasons why one believes as to how young someone is, to what's going no in there life, to have some type of disease, something mentally is wrong with them etc...

I have observed Zeitgeist members using a tactic that call "planting a seed" where basically they want to plant questions in the mind of the people there talking about. They are not out to convince them to believe in this CT or that but there out to hit a target. TZM does a shotgun affect method of trying to appeal to everybody in any way shape or form. The problem with this is that this method applied to a group will make the group look very disingenuous by the very method. It also confuses people within the group as to the purpose of what it does and in this case TZM doesn't do anything it's entirely internet based. TZM's message gets lost as it's conspiracy based yet they are not about conspiracy. Well if your not conspiracy based movement why have conspiracy movies which are the main promotional tool of TZM promoted within your movement? TZM tries to appeal to everybody but in fact when doing so it's also being very dishonest, but that's the tactic they use to promote people to it's conspiracy group. This is also where someone may first be introduced to conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists who believe in them.


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Just my thoughts on the matter.

Some part of this might be explained by simple failure to understand epistemology - how to look at facts, evidence, sources and what to do when they're missing or inconclusive.

When you hear a truther say "I'm on the fence on 9/11", I think they actually think they are. Once they understand that you should scrutinize evidence on both sides equally, and that skepticism doesn't imply a safe "middle ground" in between both positions they might change their mind - but it's still difficult to reach that point.

Quote from Newbie

thanks for the links, and I've already read lots of Muertos' blog, good stuff there. In the skeptoid link you attached it at one point goes into talking about delusional disorder and the different kinds there are. Do you think that people who claim to be apart of some kind of conspiracy (most notably the Illuminati) are really just suffering from some form of delusional disorder, or schizophrenia? I think it might be that but I'm wondering what you guys think about that. One thing that pops into my mind whenever I saw some stories posted online conspiracy theory sites, it's always somebody saying they were part of the Illuminati, at one point they mention that they will continue to post more later after going through some "old files"...yet why do they never show these "files" (Ex. taking a picture of the files and posting them in the site so that we know they aren't just bluffing), they never do that, they just claim that they need to go back and look through some "old files", while never establishing that those "files" are real instead of just a product of their imagination

I think these people are simple trolls. Attention seekers.

while it is possible that they are just lying/trolling, do you also think its probably just them suffering from delusional disorder, or schizophrenia and paranoia?, that also seems likely to me

Nice! and i noticed the last point you brought up was mental illness. So i guess mental illnesses like delusional disorder or schizophrenia causes people to believe these things or even believe they have been part of it even though they really aren't. Right?

hmm, so Locke, should we also apply that to people who have been in the entertainment Industry? (these couple questions I'm about to post specifically refer to Illuminati theories)

for example, one youtube channel I still can't really debunk "Forerunner777", his bio also mentions him being a former writer/director for music videos and such for the music industry, but "demonic possession" being the force that gave him the ability to do these things while running with the "elite". The guy's a pastor or something now, is it possible that he just found out about these theories somewhere and became paranoid, maybe he was always christian even when he learned about these theories? I'm not sure...

the other video, I pretty much forgot about this, thinking "whatever...", but lately I wonder about it
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAQy2RwQi3o&feature=plcp). Is it possible here that she's just lying to get attention or something. It might be, I'm pretty sure she states which music video they were shooting when she supposedly had to chant "666" on set. So this video posted here might just be a lie to get people talking and to get more views for that particular music video?
(for example, since she, in this video, states which music video they were shooting when this supposedly happened, the many people who are watching this video will then go watch that music video - that's exactly what I did - and that gets the music video more views aka more money).

I try using logic like both of these to debunk these things but I still doubt it sometimes, like you said Locke, people do lie, but I just have a hard time believing that these things are just lies/exaggerations

"The first thing I would ask this guy is what is his real name, and second, what did he actually do in the music industry? If he can't show proof that he was in the music industry, then he is probably lying about everything. Even if he was in the industry, it's still possible that he misinterpreted a entertainer's actions and behavior as being a result of "demonic possession". "

I forgot to add this. His name is Christopher Hudson, and he claims to be a "Former NYC screen, music video and song writer". Those are in his bio.

"It is entirely possible that she is lying, and it is possible it could have happened, but even if it "is" true, it doesn't mean that Rick Ross is part of some elite. It could just be that he and his entourage has some very bizarre beliefs, and that he is a ego-maniac. Nothing in that video suggested to me, if it is true, that Rick Ross is part of the Illuminati."

true, and from what I know, Rick Ross doesn't really have any bizarre beliefs, all I know is that he believes in God (I'm pretty sure but I might be wrong) and he has denied Illuminati rumours surrounding him in one song, don't remember which one but that's not important.

I guess it was just a lie, I'd hope so, it was probably just a scheme to get people to check out the music video she refers too which will get the video more views and more money as a result (that's exactly what I did, and when I went to the music video, a majority of the comments were people saying they came to watch the music video after watching the video of the model)

Ok thank you. I don't really fear this theory anymore, now i just need to deal with my fear of ouija boards and so called exorcisms before old fears start coming back

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Quote from anticultist

People with mental problems and misunderstanding of logic have a tendency to fill in gaps between topics. They usually ascribe connections from unrelated topics through what is called 'joining the dots'. In conspiracy theory circles 'joining the dots' is seen as a positive method of explaining complex and unrelated topics, in mental health circles 'joining the dots' can be a very serious flaw in a persons way of thinking. This is unless there is evidence that can prove the connection being true, or the connection is only being used in an artistic manner.

Joining the dots is usually attributable to creative thinking or invention, but the major areas it can be seen or indicative of are all manner of different mental health diagnoses, some being terrets, paranoia, schizophrenia, aspergers, autism etc...

yup, sounds about right.

Well, to be honest, conspiracy theories are kind of fun. But it's pretty easy to get sucked into them, especially when you find yourself in a situation in which you see yourself powerless.