Skeptic Project

Giovanna Marino TZM resignation letter. In her resignation letter her main complaints is lack of communication, decision making happening behind the scene, and lack of recognition for the greek chapter by name TZM higher up's





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Giovanna Marino resignation


https://goo.gl/5mybxv






Dear friends and volunteers of the Zeitgeist Movement of all around the world,


after 4 and a half years of shared work with you, over two years of which helping Global Chapters Administration (GCA), I have reached the point of leaving the movement for the reasons that you will read further down.
I want to take this opportunity to thank you all for your dedication and for the contribution that each of you has given in Italy and in the other national chapters.


Voluntary actions that we have done together have been a great opportunity for my personal human and spiritual growth and I hope it has been the same for you. But now I've come to a point where I can no longer continue as this would require that I were lying and hiding of data and facts concerning all. Therefore, in the spirit of transparency and coherency, I'm here with this document of mine to communicate truthfulness and with liberty the causes that have led me to this decision yet too long meditated.


I want to emphasize that many within the movement are geniune people and have great generosity and true commitment, while just a few are those who unfortunately have deviated from the original intent and sadly are the ones who have the power to manage TZM. I do not let myself run, I use my critical thinking and am consistent with what I say, do and think. As a result I can not promote the name of the Movement Zeitgeist anymore.




(In italics fuchsia my comments about it)




Possibility of reading the new Non-Profit Association Charter: DENIED
Lack of transparency on the role and composition of TZM Global and interaction between GCA and TZM Global
Lack of transparency in the relationship between TZM and NPO
Lack of transparency in the Giovanna Marino removal from GCA
Lack of transparency in the management of the USA chapters
Lack of transparency in the riconstruction of the facts and in the resolution of the Matt Berkowitz's case




Possibility of reading the new Non-Profit Association Charter: DENIED


Although there have been numerous requests to read the new Non-Profit Association Charter (The Zeitgeit Movement NPO http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/support ) this has not been possible. In addition, members of the Greek chapter and others who have requested it, have been mocked and were told that there was no reason to ask this kind of transparency, as you hear in the recording of the international meeting of June 29, 2016 https://archive.org/details/ts3_recording_16_06_29_18_9_0


- (at minute 33 introduction to the discussion on the NPO)
- at minute 43:50 Franky says it is not possiblile to achieve efficient communication and reach everyone, but that anyone can participate in meetings and ask questions, but the questions can not be done through documents or google.group because this means destroying the public image.. (Pity that he missed that the Greek chapter has disclosed his google.doc only through google.group dedicated exclusively to national coord. therefore not in public, and shame that there was no answer. Why does a movement like Zeitgeist is not able to make efficient communication and why certain information is not made public in particular when asked during the meetings?) (and by the way, Franky is allowed to say this means destroying the public image while I have been accused of being violent when I said that some statements on GMOs etc can split the movement. - Double standard?)
- at minute 47 circa Jeorge criticizes the fact that there are people criticizing despite the fact that components of the NPO are senior members of the movement and also says it is good cleaning up of those who continue to criticize even if TZM is getting smaller and smaller and that there is no transparency issue.
(If seniority of service is an absolute value for TZM then TZM is a gerontocracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerontocracy .
Cleaning up and reducing the movement to only a bunch od ppl who adhere without questioning or objectioning is a very preventive prerequisite for any development and in particular contradictory for a movement that aims to change the world by reaching a "critical mass." The lack of listening is a lack of will to communicate)
- at minute 51: the Greek chapter yet raises doubts and asks details about the NPO and was asked why the Greek chapter asks the association details as TZM is not democratic ... (Yes, pity there is no cability to respond to simple requests of acknowledging of mechanisms of the NPO, as a body CREATED SPECIFICALLY for TZM)
- at minute 55:34 Teemu says that for him there are no problem for the fact that it does not know who is in the NPO and, as regards to the transparency, he says in his chapter everything is transparent. Even Franky says in his chapter everything is transparent.
(Pity no one explains why there is no transparency on NPO and in any case this is not a relevant answer. If someone is not interested in having this information that should not be an excuse to silence those who request the information)
Others add their views by saying that is not a problem of TZM transparency, but lack of confidence by whom calls for transparency. Franky gives the example of Peter asking if people want to know his insurance number, and concludes that those who want more information should take it upon themselves to inquire!
(Pity nobody says where to find such infornazioni. It's not even a matter of trust, the matter is not sharing the Charter of the NPO that is hidden and replaced with a false response on the lack of trust)
- at minute 1:03:13 Victor says that people who want transparency are people who want to know everything, and that this is not sustainable. (Sustainable ?? What kind of concept is this?? Not sustainable asking to read the Chart of the NPO made for TZM?).
He continues: "If you are in a team then you know what happens at that team, otherwise you'll know just what you're told." (Much like the State broadcaster of all dictatorships, isn't it?).
And Jeorge adds that people who complain are those who are not connected. (Unbelievable hearing such declaration, as if it was a crime to ask to know and by the way, although I had been connected with the GCA, I have not been revealed such information despite having requested for it)
- at minute 1:05:49 - Gilbert justifies that the GCA meetings are closed to prevent interference and waste of time and that in any case he understands the frustration of the Greek chapter and that the issues should be discussed openly whether they exist. (Pity that in this case the problem exists, being placed openly, but no one bothers to clarify it)
- at minute 1:08:10 Jason says it's just a question of who wants to take control and that anyone who is volunteering does not have any kind of control and that no one has one vote in the Movement.
(Definitely those who have a greater knowledge may have some kind of control. So is there the fear of losing control of TZM by senior members? Wasn't it a leaderness, horizontal, transparent movement ?)
- at minute 1:10:51 Gilbert says there are active chapters that do not participate in international meetings in order not to be bored by the constant demands for transparency. (I'd like to know who these chapters are and anyway that's another excuse for not responding)
- at minute 1:20:30 Franky concludes that TZM is always there after seven years with no information and that, if there are things that do not work, people are asked to participate in the team where such discussions are done and to stop complaining loudly. He also stresses that there is a lot of good people leaving the movement because there are too many protests.
(If you merely respond by giving the correct information, there would not be all these complaints, and people would not leave TZM. Instead, people leave because they find themselves in a sectarian group. In addition, even though I was part of the GCA for two and a half years, I had no such information, although requested in April 2015, and even if there had been information, these have not been shared with me)
Suggested reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
Lack of transparency on the role and composition of TZM Global and interaction between GCA and TZM Global
- at minute 1:28:32 What is TZM global?
Gilbert says it is the administration of the movement in the sense of the actual administering of things that happen in the movement such as chapters forming, website edit, ... it is a web/phisical team, the back office without any involvement in the day-by-day activism.
(I'd like to know who are these who administer the movement and anyway that's another general answer to avoid giving specific information on the NPO)
About the GCA Gilbert says that it serves the chapters.... also to solve problems in executing their activism, guidance, questions, assiting if there is any questions, ... and mediating when there is a problem within a chapter, between chapters .... and in most extreme cases the GCA also moderate a chaper in a sense that we establish that a chapter is not fuctioning properly and then we take steps to make sure that it does.(Easier said than done: see the Chapter USA problem further down)
- at minute 1:31:30 How are decisions made in the GCA??
Gilbert answer that the GCA has never had a problem to make decision, ....with rational consensus, ....we discuss what would be the most logical outcome, ....that it has never been a problem and .... that we hadn't the need to follow a protocol, but just to discuss.
( Here too, easier said than done: see Matt's video issue and my removal from GCA)
Victor said that sometimes it is not easy because of the emotional thing (Another excuse to eliminate the confrontation with conflicting ideas. The comment referred to me as my logical speeches were downgraded to "emotional" because I insisted in discussing some ideas that were not taken into account, just like what happens with the Greek chapter that asks for information on the Statute of the Association)
- at minute 1:40:53 Reba criticizes the Greek chapter that does not know where to go and find information that everyone knows (except for the Articles of Association, eh?) and have not had a good education for the fact that the Greek chapter makes certain questions.
(Another way of avoiding the answer and at the same time blaming others for not having adequate training, shame that Reba has forgotten that the Greek chapter was recently one of the most connected chapters as it has organized the Global Z-Day Athens). Reba responds this way because I had criticized her own methods to raise new chapters to the rank of official as different from that used by the GCA to formalize all new chapters worldwide. - See USA chapter problem
Shortly we will have to attend 6-month courses as in the TVP to officially public speaking of concepts that are written on the book "TZM defined". Will volunteers also be asked to perform a tests in addition to an evaluation interview? What are the criteria? How is this procedure performed? Does it work on sympathies, ad personam, or with rational consensus? But if, in the case of Reba, the coordinator who decides is only one, therefore with whom will she achieve the rational consensus?)


Lack of transparency in the relationship between TZM and NPO


at minute 1:57:00 Gilbert talks about the new site and request information to Jason who answered about the NPO that projects are on hold until they will not know what happens with the resources (money?) and the times... (In practice, no concrete information revealed.
They have to discuss (who?) aboutt what they can do and what to do.......
Gilbert says that in the future it would be good to meet with Jason, with the national coordinators and the GCA, and with some representatives of the NPO to make sure everyone is sure what happens etc. etc. with regard to the website.
(Nice plans, pity that soon after Jason responds ....)
Jason responds: "... the NPO is a separate entity that does not relate to others and operates at its discretion, although listening to the needs of the movement ... ..and that could have ongoing projects to help the chapters, but everything will depend on what the NPO will do in the future and that they are all there to help and better serve the movement on the Public Relation's point of view, but also from the functional point of view. They are assessing what has worked in the past and that we need to know that who is part of the NPOs are former members of TZM and so they know. " (What a consistency: one says one thing and soon after the other denies it)
Gilbert adds that he did speak with Peter who said that the NPO will NOT be disconnected from TZM and his activism. Also they discussed the possibility of GCA of being a liaison (connection) between the NPO and the activist part of TZM to discuss the needs and requirements ....
But Jason continues changing the subject by saying that all this noise and clamor of the last month should be tackled by Gilbert with the participation of Reba in order to create coordinators who know the information. (See US chapter problem)


(What to say!! when some people create an association, the aim should be at least clear to members and if even Gilbert, Peter and Jason do not agree on the function of NPO despite months that the Non-profit is already operating, I wonder how one manages to be informed about the NPO functions in connection with the TZM when i t is not posible to read the Charter of the NPO that sadly remains secret.)


Lack of transparency in the Giovanna Marino removal from GCA


al minuto 1:46:50 giovanna
Gilbert does not want to give information about the fact that I have been removed from the GCA a part from saying that relations in the GCA have deteriorated in recent months, and that with the latest communication events it has worsened .... it seems that even some administrators do not want to communicate with giovanna
(Obviously without specifying who - this also indicates the lack of transparency among the interrelationships between the members of the GCA).
Teemu says my discussions were not constructive and that he would have written something about it (Teemu has only recently joined the GCA and knows nothing of any prior discussion unless someone has reported him his personal impression on me. Teemu has only read some unrelated comment on Whatsup and instead of writing something he could have talked directly with me, couldn't he? Perhaps problems can't be previously discused in a meeting? What makes Teemu afraid of not being able to talk openly with me annd what does prevent him to talk with the team in my presence?)
Gilbert concludes that this is the result of accumulated (giovanna's) frustration and that we've all talked a lot especially on the communication style to use, being us in the GCA....
(As if it was rather elegant to give a psychological opinion in public on a person not attending the discussion. (see further down how Gilbert and Nelson talk about TZM members in private)
Non-Violent Communication? WOW!
The decision of my removal was taken without any discussion and based on a Reba and Victor personal interpretation of one of my replies in an email of Coord. National google.group where Jason told me that I could ignore his reply and I responded that he could ignore TZM request for transparency.
Reba accusing me to be "hostile, selfish, and detrimental to TZM and that I have assassinated jason" - How sweet, she knows exactly how to speak in a non violent way! doesn't she? But of course, she can!








Regarding the communicative relationships "worsened" between me and the members of GCA, this has been caused by the lack of listening to some of my rational and logical views, lack of listening by the other "elder"members in the GCA especially Gilbert, Victor Nelson who yet have not recognized the lack of quality and amazing verbal violence used by Matt in his video, nor the unsatisfactory handling of issues such as GMOs and vaccines in an article of the Greek magazine translated into English where they mocked those who have different ideas.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TXjEWA95g-Ol8DyitxL8AgQkEbdkB6pxPpEAw7CFm1k/edit


Moreover, it has never seriously been considered solving the US controversy.
After months and months of total absence of Reba for personal reasons, the GCA had established a new co-coordination for USa and at the technical meeting for the passage of positions, Jason and Reba showed up saying that that could not be done because Reba is his (Jason's) friend and coordination must remain exclusively to her (Reba). Nelson, Victor and Gilbert ,despite having agreed on the new co-coordination, have done nothing to change the situation, leaving the decision to Jason and refused to support the decision taken within the ery same GCA. I worked for months without having a shred of results. Also being later invited by Nelson e Gilbert not to talk to anyone about these facts and that it wasn't my business anymore otherwise I would be kicked out of the GCA. I call this blackmailing!


Reba decides what are the US national chapters of which doesn't reveal any details to anyone.
Someone created a USA FB group because Reba does not like FB, However she was invited as admin and Reba popped up, changed the group's name into "Unofficial" and then left the group because she does not care about the request of US chapters. But for his personal business she uses Facebook without problems.


New York State coordinators seeking official status have been ignored without any sort of process of appeal or mediation by the GCA (a part from my efforts). Nor has there been any sort of communication that application has been rejected. Again, they have been simply ignored. And I know of other cases like this one.


This is Nelson consideration about TZM members: "This people want to partecipate in every movie script or have the alternative to chose the course (a) or (b) of their elementary school" e ancora: "the old dinosours fuuuu stupid points horzontal"in struture and leaderness"


And Gilbert said to me: "Will you be next in line to make the mistake that values pertinent to an NLRBE mut be applied to movement coordination? ........ you fulfill a different role. A people manager...."
So to say, should I act like a movement manager? Sorry, I do not consider myself a person who manages the movement nor I want to be such and certainly do not want to even share my activities with people who believe they manage the movement members without applying the values of NLRBE.












Lack of transparency in the management of the USA chapters


Several months ago I raised the issue that there was an inconsistency in the structure of the chapters as the United States of America is conceived as a single state and not a federation of states, while the European Communities is not regarded as a single unity, Consequently the individual US states are considered sub-chapters and not National chapters, while in Europe each state is considered state with its own management of the chapter.
The State coordinators of the US are thus excluded, for example from the international google.group and their names have NEVER been shared with the GCA despite several times requested to the US coordinator Reba Melfa. Consequently the chapters in the US are excluded from the global communication, and communication between national coordinators.


Giovanna Marino - Why the USA chapters are not in trello? Do we have access to those data? What if unluckely Reba leaves? Is there a back up somewhere? 2 nov 2014 alle 16:37
(There was no way of being able to reach a decision on the matter because it involved the sharing of coordinator USA Reba Melfa's powers.
The US coordinator Reba Melfa uses different methods to manage USA chapters than those of the GCA to promote a new national coordinator because according to Jason "been that people are hiding another agenda" .............
Another agenda? Maybe could it be saving the world from madness, fear and violence and lack of transparency?




Lack of transparency in the riconstruction of the facts and in the resolution of the Matt Berkowitz's case


- al minuto 1:13:51
Jason says that the official material of the movement is "obvious" and does not require official status, the important thing is that it works as a communication (that is, after all of the discussions about the control over communication, Jason suddenly decides that everyone does as s/he pleases, whatever works?)
Then Gilbert explains to Jason that the problem arises from Matt Berkowitz's video and it would be better to remain as neutral as possible and see the holistic side. Then Teemu says that Matt's video is good and that he would like to spread it as TZM material.


At the time, I created this document on Matt Berkowitz issue.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SDqezEmSubmBMGsu4jHcf-WOjEK-p-drinKp69H3dTI/edit
(You can find Matt's video transcription here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C0AApOblFA27MkC2T4rSq8IiUUESCpAhdR_4Cb_Ases/edit# )


It was not possible to determine why the GCA members wanted that this document remained secret. Is it that deep down they want to re-evaluate Matt's video?
Have not being clear in public about these facts, November 2015 the Greek chapter came out with an English version of a magazine issue that publishes in Greek. In this there were many speeches pro GMO and pro vaccines. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0By_H2-1yWMCOSl8zNDVwTFNJMms
Only after my protests it has been archived and replaced with another number. Certainly many didn't like that and sadly they were the very same people who unfortunately have not yet understood.....
In this other document (following link below) you can read my objections on the violent language used in the video that no one in the GCA wanted to acknowledge until at some point Peter Joseph did made the final decision to remove the video from the Official YouTube channel
Matt's video violent language
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TXjEWA95g-Ol8DyitxL8AgQkEbdkB6pxPpEAw7CFm1k/edit


In the following two years despite various discussions and even though I had explained why there should not be certain insults, the problem has reappeared and even now there are national coordinators who would like to re-propose the same video not understanding what all this is about. Unfortunately those who would like to use this video does not understand that insulting people is not coherent with the Non-Violent Communication promoted by the movement.
Some members of GCA have accused me of having a violent language because I reiterated that the TZM does not take part in certain scientific debates to avoid splitting the movement in half. If they only knew what damage GMO create....


To conclude:


"The application of the scientific method for social concern"?
All I hear is demagogy and rhetoric.








The Zeitgeist Movement basic concepts are ideas that can not be harnessed nor labelled or patented. Ideas are flying and overcoming boundaries, barriers and levels of civilizations.
I will take my ideas, which also include many promoted by Zeitgeist, beyond the boundaries of this movement in order to actually see a real change in the real life of each one of us starting immediately.


Life is the very same moment in which you are alive. The next moment could not evolve. So I live this amazing adventure free from any rhetoric and manipulation, trying intensely to avoid the violence that ignoring the existence dignity prevents human beings to live in complete freedom and harmony with the Earth.


Ciao ciao!


;o)




If anyone would like to understand or inquire more, please do contact me.
You know my emai! ;o)


Apologies for the English faults.