Skeptic Project

Yes it proves he is probably a conspiracy theorist (unless he really is that senile but I doubt it), but the question is to what degree. That is what i want to know. Fresco has lived a really long life so the idea of the Illuminati could be very different to Alex Jones' idea, maybe it is a lot less nutty, I dont know. The fact he doesnt think 911 was an inside job is interesting because every Illuminati believer Ive ever heard of has believed it was. This isnt doing him any special favours this is just looking at the facts and not making them fit what I want them to be just because it would be convenient.

But that is why i want to know more about what he really meant when he said it, if he is really a crackpot conspiracy theorist that this interview clip strongly suggests this will only make it more obvious where he either comes out with more conspiracy theories or he makes a poor defence of what he said in that interview.

When Im debating a truther I sometimes like to allow them to make statements of fact so I can correct them, I ask them what THEY think so I can then proceed to show how they are lying or incompetent. Its best when you get someone to tie themselves up in lies first so there's no room to wriggle out of and if they do it looks really bad. For example if one says that the WTC collapsed in 9 seconds, if you have got them to state that first then you can tell them they are full of shit, but if you havent allowed them to say that they can claim they never believed anything like that.

What other Illuminati conspiracy theorist believes in the Illuminati and not 911 was an inside job? That only should suggest that maybe its not as clear as you think.

"What other Illuminati conspiracy theorist believes in the Illuminati and not 911 was an inside job? That only should suggest that maybe its not as clear as you think."

No, it means you are more presumptuous than you should be on this.

I am simply going by what Fresco said. His words.

You want to add your own interpretation and speculation to them, and I find it unnecessary as Fresco told you exactly what he thinks.

Honestly, does it really matter if "Illuminati" to Fresco means cabal of elitists or reptoids?

Even if he didn't say exactly what he thought, which he did, is one form of Illuminati belief "better" than another?

Even if he didn't say exactly what he thought, which he did, is one form of Illuminati belief "better" than another?

If he had said that he thinks the Illuminati were influential hundreds of years ago, it would sound a little better than claiming their in charge today.

Neither scenario is anything Fresco wants to be involved with.

"I don't really care how Fresco defines the Illuminati. Whatever it is in his mind, clearly the concept is the same--a cabal of evil people who rule the world. The host's questions made it perfectly clear that that's what he was talking about, and Fresco endorsed that belief. Fresco is a conspiracy theorist."

That's exactly what I got out of it.

There really wasn't any room left for interpretation.

He didn't stutter or tell a personal anecdote. He answered pretty damn clearly and the answer is that he believes in the Illuminati.

Now we can go back and forth speculating as to whether he believes it or whether he is pandering to the CT demographic, but that ain't the point. The point is he said he believes in the Illuminati.

I don't really care how Fresco defines the Illuminati. Whatever it is in his mind, clearly the concept is the same--a cabal of evil people who rule the world. The host's questions made it perfectly clear that that's what he was talking about, and Fresco endorsed that belief. Fresco is a conspiracy theorist.

I think you misunderstand me. It IS huge that he believes in "a cabal of evil people who rule the world", it is also damning that these people keep going on conspiracy theorist TV/radio shows. TVP even lectured at a 2012 conference! But they dont believe in the 2012 nonsense, a critical point...

However it is definitely important what he means when he says Illuminati here. Is it David Icke style? Alex Jones style? Jordan Maxwell style? Something else? I want to know because I want to know to what extent is he a conspiracy believer. I want to find the final nails so the next time some Zeitgeister tells me its got nothing to do with conspiracy theories I can hammer it in the coffin for them.

This isn't me making excuses this is me wanting him to hand me bigger, nastier nails.

I like to make damn sure these guys cant weasel out of stuff and move goal posts, the worser this becomes the more plausible deniability gets harder and harder to pass off as plausible.

Maybe its the way I debate, I know it would be great to have a response to it.

I don't think we disagree substantively, Ed and Aaron. I certainly agree that if we hand him some more nails I'm sure the Zeitgeisters will be happy to hammer them in for us.

My only point is that it doesn't really matter what form of Illuminati he believes in, because they're all batshit nuts, and the fact that he has endorsed Illuminati beliefs in some form is unmistakable evidence that he is a conspiracy theorist. It would certainly be easier to demonstrate the link between the ZM and conspiracy ideology the more extreme Fresco's beliefs are, so frankly I hope he does believe in Icketilians.

The more I see from Zeitgeisters, the more obvious it is that they're a conspiracy movement. I don't even think they really care that much about a RBE despite all their protestations to the contrary. Conspiracy theories are about 80% of the game for them. If they really cared about an RBE, wouldn't they be pushing for more action and less talk?

Ed, do it. Make the list. I'll help you if you want.

I'm still working through the interview. My God, how clueless these people are. And how deceptive.

Found it. It's in this video at 4:23 and again at 7:43:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7g_IGrkl8

The Anonymous video did not take it out of context, they just removed the endless rambling anecdotes that Fresco padded it with.

I added a comment. We'll see how long it takes for the ZM to delete it.

Maybe I'm just too old and jaded, but I genuinely do not understand what about Fresco appeals to TZM kids. He doesn't talk about anything that didn't happen thirty years ago.

Wow....I must have fallen asleep the last time I saw that video of Jacque. I never knew he co-signed the Illuminati conspiracy on that show. Like what someone mentioned earlier, probably this is the middle ground that made him reach out to Peter. So in Jacque's head, TVP is supposed to be the alternative to the Illuminati's new world.

Maybe he just believes a shadowy cabal rules the world. Like he said.

The dude is 94 years old and as far as I can tell he has never had a job.

This is not a far fetched idea guys.

Illuminati are just a bunch of folk in some other forum who figure out the best way to run the world, they are always looking for better solutions, so if RBE or any varient works, I'm sure they will copy it.

All we have to do is, create something better to prove to them we aren't losers.

Its such a shame TZM members often see the Illuminati type folk as the enemy.

The reason they have folk working as wage slaves, is that is what keeps the lights on!