Skeptic Project

"> Sure go to your uninhabited island, we will meeet you in World War III.
Why make it hard on yourself :-)
Build next door to an existing small community and compliment it..
Work with local people, be part of their community, not an isolated commune..

You can't make a self-sustaining commune not relying on outer sources.
Which is why I'm keen to see us develop plenty of export products so we can afford to pay for imported products." - that would be ideas I have had all along for a transition to an RBE.Use existing green/eco towns as a starting point and sell excess food,energy etc to the "outlanders" but it was ignored at TZM.

> that would be ideas I have had all along for a transition to an RBE.

You me and several hundred other folk as well! (Many you will perhaps unsuprisingly find on the TZM banned list..)

> I'm not sure if I really get the purpose of the "research city".

I think I understand it, and its a nice early thought, but it should promptly be followed by "Oh, and we need to add real people to help researchers design better products.."

And there is no reason why a research city could also not make a profit, so you can afford to build more research cities..

And no reason why not to build one at least in each country..

Give people something to do other than handing out DVD's..

And in time, everyone can move into research cities..

Seems simple to me, but then I am smart :-)

Its almost as if, they aren't quite smart enough to realise the parts they are missing in their solution, even when people shout it at them!

Thats the problem isn't it, some people just don't understand.

Oh well, guess I had better get busy then, got a city to build..

Since in RBE you would take what you need, without having the need to work to earn it. There is no reason to stockpile, because it just takes more space in your house and food will rot.

As I've argued before many times, you will still have to work for an RBE to function, and an RBE has no way to make you work, nor any way to prevent vandalizing and other crimes, so it will fail or turn into a dictatorship.

Don't waste your time debating with Nanos. He's insane.

Plenty of other people here who will give you valid things to dispute.

You make physical tests in that city. Will this break during use? How much stress can this construction take? etc.

Where will you get the money for all this?

> Nanos city

I prefer more earth sheltered buildings, so there is still plenty of nature to enjoy, these perhaps give a flavour to what I have in mind:

http://www.tenchford.com/_images/Hobbitvisit.jpg</p>

http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/1514621</p>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/villages/images/underground_house5.jpg</p>

http://www.lake-district-guides.co.uk/generalimages2/iancameron5-Hobbit_Shires_bedsmall.jpg</p>

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/assets/hobbit_holes.jpg</p>

> you will still have to work for an RBE to function

To start with yes, but I think we aren't too far away from having an all volunteer labour force, based on how I noticed in the UK we have one town with a 75% unemployment rate, yet the town still functions..

> or turn into a dictatorship.

Those can work quite well you know..

> nor any way to prevent vandalizing and other crimes

Simple solution = police..

> you need is a computer simulation.

Agreed!

> They would invade the town taking what they want
> rather than to pay for those products.

Thats what security guards are for.

But you do have a point.

At first, the easy products one can provide for free that you can't steal easily would be say housing.

But once you say, provide mobile phones for free, you will need to stop them disappearing to the outside world too much..

> You think that corporations would send people sabotage
> infrastructure at the commune,

Sure, but that happens all the time in business, you have to make sure you have security.

> Don't waste your time debating with Nanos

At least I'm more civil than some folk..

"Maybe you should... I don't know... READ THE WHOLE THREAD!"

Is that before or after we wait for you to finish "The Fountainhead"?

"At least I'm more civil than some folk.."

Yeah, you're civil allright. When you're powerless.

After the things you've said on this forum, I think we are all grateful that you will never have any.

@domokato

Um...I have been? I've been posting since page 1 bro

Plz answer the question

Do you mean what I proposed or what Nanos proposed. Because there is a major difference.
Anyways I answered to it:

You don't need TZM permission to make your own Venus, Florida for research and advertisement of TVP/RBE on weekends. Most members, including those going there, could donate to it. No one would live there while being parasitic on those other members that give donations.

Same for further maintenance.

Nanos wants to fund an RBE city with donations and then sell excess materials to outside, which actually have no value in the RBE city, while having value outside. So I don't see how the outside world would be happy about it.

@Nanos

Simple solution = police..
Thats what security guards are for.
you have to make sure you have security.

You need way more starting money to have that done, then. It seems like a RBE dictatorship within an capitalist society. In one way that really is the only way it would work. But I agree with TZM/TVP that larger critical mass is required. I'll ask about this at TZM forums and no I won't get banned just because of that. :P
Unless you did make thread about it, Nanos. You have 4000+ posts, can you ease it for me?

I would be far happier funding it from profit sharing businesses that take a slice of the profits towards that purpose

So loans in short. Could still have both though.

Interesting. Taking the employed people to a RBE city would decrease unemployment rates in that country giving unemployed a chance to join an RBE city themselves.

Another positive thing about trading goods this way is that those products won't have initial cost.

But if it works better than what we have now, whats the problem..

None. Since TVP would work the same way, just under government protection, I reckon. That is probably why TZM/TVP wants critical mass. For government and corporation awareness of such a system.

And, how is critical mass measured ? (eg. people signed up to the newsletter?)

() Yes, why not? They can stop receiving them whenever they wish. So I think it is a good measure.

You take the funding from the share of the profits only after the money has been made.

Then those are shares of the RBE project itself? Aren't they? :D

RBE city will have total value to the outside world, so shares could still be bought and sold.

If you wish to call money itself loans, that is another point entirely :-)

No, I didn't mean money=dept. :)

What does this all have to do with your Solar Bike Project, though? A product you think to sell in the near future? Solar panels will break or become unusable in one or another way, so they are not permanent. What's wrong with a standard bike?

Its good to see us debating/discussing and getting to understanding each other in my view.

My pleasure. I see a big difference in conversation behavior when speaking to an elder. Unlike anticultist and Matt which make jokes and throw around other opinions(blogs).

P.S. How do you change your avatar on this site?

Thank you for proving my point.

> Then those are shares of the RBE project itself? Aren't they? :D

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are saying there.

> RBE city will have total value to the outside world, so shares could still be bought
> and sold.

I would want to avoid issuing any legal shares, to avoid anyone buying them up and profiting at the expense of others who are actually earning the profits. eg. in my mind the people living in the community should get a share of the profits, and those working possibly a larger share, but those outside nothing.

> P.S. How do you change your avatar on this site?

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/how-to-use-the-forum#post-1943</p>

> 5. Also I think it should explain how to create an avatar, for people who don't know.
> (Go to gravatar.com)

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/you-know-nothing-of-how-the-real-world-works%E2%80%8F/page/4#post-582

> go to http://www.gravatar.com create an account with the same email address you
> use here. Login, activate your account, upload avatar. Then select avatar, click
> Confirm. Then you have to clear your cache.

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/wveth-wishes-for-warm-welcomes#post-11018</p>

> To get an avatar, you have to sign up at this website:
>
> http://en.gravatar.com/<br /> >
> Use the same e-mail as you used for your CS account. Then, upload your avatar to
> the site.

> I see a big difference in conversation behavior when speaking to an elder.

I've generally noticed once someone is over 25 years old, that they become more agreeable to debate/work/etc. but that is not always the case, and I've met people of a younger age perfectly able to be mature. (I was just like this when I was 4.)

> What does this all have to do with your Solar Bike Project, though?

I plan to make that a profit sharing company, build workers housing for example to save them spending a fortune on paying rent!

> Solar panels will break or become unusable in one or another way,
> so they are not permanent.

They do often come with 20/25 year warranties mind you! (What car comes with that!)

I'd be looking to use resin based panels for durability, rather than glass. (Lighter too..)

Yes, I'm sure they will break and wear out, but at low cost, affordably replacable compared with say a new car engine that has worn out.

> What's wrong with a standard bike?

Nothing!

But its not a car..

People want cars, they offer better weather resistance, comfort, security, accident resistance, range, socialness. (Eg. you can sit next to someone and chat, far easier than them sitting behind you or some distance away in a seperate vehicle.)

If you are fit, healthy, don't mind being knocked off every 10 years on the road, and happy riding alone, the a bike can do you fine. (Why I've got one myself, I've been using for 30 years.)

But, if your not so fit, perhaps got an ailing leg, aren't so keen to get saddle sore the rest of your life, fed up with broken bones from the last car accident, want your girlfriend to sit next to you, desire to carry home a decent amount of shopping, want to travel 200 miles to see sites a bit further away like your car owning friends, then a car is your thing.

Only cars cost a small fortune to not just own, but to run, to maintain, and to insure/tax.

A cycle that offers most of what a car does, but at a bit more cost of a cycle, but still affordable to those on minimum wage, would fill that gap, plus it would help us economically..

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/wi04_moore/pr120505.html</p>

> Studies show that people are more likely to find steady employment and earn a
> decent wage when they have access to a car.

My aim would be to provide some vehicles freely available to the unemployed so they can more easily find work.

You don't need TZM permission to make your own Venus, Florida for research and advertisement of TVP/RBE on weekends. Most members, including those going there, could donate to it. No one would live there while being parasitic on those other members that give donations.

Really? You're gonna build and maintain an entire city and perform socioeconomic scientific experiments in it, via funding from donations?

You don't need TZM permission to make your own Venus, Florida for research and advertisement of TVP/RBE on weekends. Most members, including those going there, could donate to it.No one would live there while being parasitic on those other members that give donations.

OK so go ahead and make your own RBE inspired city, let us see if Peter or Jacque allows you to affiliate it with TZM or TVP. Words where mouth is now please, telling us you can do it on a forum means nothing, please go ahead and keep us upto date on your progress.

And your statement about people living in it and being parasitic off donations. Like Jacque and Roxannes parasitic lifestyle living in Venus Florida off donations and people buying their fantasy images and anecdotes.