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anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:33 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | Im just saying divorce and suicide stories are not unusual nor do I consider them to be particularly sordid. They are pretty commonplace stories as far as I am accustomed to in family structures. His whole take on polygamy and his considering it normal is something else, the elements to the story with Roxanne and the other girlfriend are the things that stand out as the most bizarre to me. | |||||
#31 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Sky | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:33 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | It doesn't sound like a deadbeat dad situation, it sounds like he was divorced and his wife took the kids, then later he found a new girlfriend. | |||||
#32 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:35 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | Girlfriends :D it was plural haha | |||||
#33 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:37 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | @Anticultist, Not a big deal, we don't have to agree on everything. @Sky, "It doesn't sound like a deadbeat dad situation, it sounds like he was divorced and his wife took the kids, then later he found a new girlfriend." From an objective third party stance, this appears to be the case. But being biased, the fact that Fresco made no effort to have a relationship with his children regardless speaks volumes about his character and how he views other people. | |||||
#34 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:39 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | "But being biased, the fact that Fresco made no effort to have a relationship with his children regardless speaks volumes about his character and how he views other people. " No apparent effort. We can't know everything that happened in his life, nor do I think we should. It sounds like his ex-wife thought he was not the kind of person she wanted around the kids. But we can't know whether or not he tried to get in touch with them. | |||||
#35 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:39 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | @Matt assuming he made no efforts to have this relationship then yes its not a good picture of his character at all. My initial question is the thing I asked to cover this. Did she prevent him because he was a cheat? did she prevent him because she knew he was into polygamy? was there other issues? was he a terrible father? Did she prevent him completely and he just gave up? Or did he make no effort at all ? Its some things that come to mind to me | |||||
#36 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:40 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Sneed would have included Fresco hiring an attorney to have access to his children. But he didn't. Instead he pointed out that Fresco had a vasectomy to avoid any more. | |||||
#37 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:43 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | Yes true that vasectomy matter does point to him not wanting kids and that the two he had no access to were the last ones he wanted anything/nothing to do with. It does explain his opinions on not owning children and handing them over to someone else to look after, and how he considers people to be terrible parents. Perhaps all these things he says are freudian slips of his, where hes justifying his beliefs because of his own failings ? | |||||
#38 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:44 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | If Fresco had the cash for a vasectomy to avoid future children, why did he not use that cash to hire an attorney for access to the existing ones? The ability to turn your back on your children isn't a normal and healthy emotional response to the situation. | |||||
#39 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:47 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | Assuming he wanted nothing to do with them yes its not a normal thing to abandon your children completely. Also I noticed Bambi died in February and he was busy planning his world tour and doing interviews and planning the earth 2 movie during this entire period. It doesnt strike me much as a mourning father devastated by the loss of a child he loved. | |||||
#40 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:48 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Probably because he didn't give a shit. And I think your speculation about the way Fresco views parenting is spot on. Since Fresco doesn't give a shit and he's the model for human behavior, no one else should give a shit either. Just another example of Fresco's beliefs having absolutely no basis in reality. | |||||
#41 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 12:01 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | yeah the more I learn about Fresco the more I realise everything he says is simply a made up story of some kind to cover over the inconsistencies in his own failed life. It seems to me he is attributing all his own baggage to being a typical behaviour pattern of all of humanity, and thereby he justifies his answers from these. He just comes across more and more of a man who makes stuff up based upon his own character flaws, and turns his own negatives into something other people might pecieve as good about himself. | |||||
#42 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 12:09 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I would agree with that analysis. | |||||
#43 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 12:28 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | The more I think about this guy the more similarities I seem to draw of him towards sociopathic tendencies. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html</p> # Glibness and Superficial Charm # Manipulative and Conning # Grandiose Sense of Self # Pathological Lying # Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt # Shallow Emotions # Incapacity for Love # Need for Stimulation # Callousness/Lack of Empathy # Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature # Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency # Irresponsibility/Unreliability # Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity # Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle # Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility | |||||
#44 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:07 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I can think of direct examples of Fresco exhibiting each of those traits. Does that mean I think Fresco is a sociopath? No. But it means I certainly wouldn't trust him either. | |||||
#45 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:15 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | Yeah I wouldnt label him or attempt to diagnose him as a sociopath, but like you just said he has exhibited many of them and it makes me doubt his sincerity. | |||||
#46 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:24 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Its quite possible Merola is a True Believer and being taken for a ride by Fresco. Which is interesting, because in the beginning I thought Merola was taking advantage of Fresco. But clearly, when we look at questionable behavior Fresco has Merola beat by a longshot. The more background comes out about Fresco, the more Merola resembles Roxanne Meadows. | |||||
#47 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
domokato | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:25 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | Firstly, polyamory should be morally permissible as long as all parties involved consent to it. My 2 cents on that. It's also interesting to see the parallels between Jacque's life and his philosophy - makes the bias much more clear. | |||||
#48 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:30 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | "It's also interesting to see the parallels between Jacque's life and his philosophy - makes the bias much more clear." I find myself wondering what came first: The behavior or the philosophy which justifies it. If I were a betting man, I would go with the former. | |||||
#49 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:34 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | I would choose the former also. And yeah Merola is looking more and more like a willing mark or student as Frescos lifestyle is uncovered. | |||||
#50 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 13:41 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Which would make sense. Merola has been ideology shopping for awhile. Never underestimate the charisma of someone with no conscience. | |||||
#51 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Aug 01, 2010 - 22:29 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652620562849262422&hl=en Lifting the veil of polygamy. Uploaded with explicit, written permission from Living Hope Ministries. | |||||
#52 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Nanos | Posted: Aug 02, 2010 - 16:19 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | Do you think TVP would have got much further if he had stayed with the German woman ? Interesting to hear more about his life though, helps perhaps to spot where he made mistakes. Perhaps I should ask, where does everyone think he went wrong and what could he have done differently ? | |||||
#53 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
anticultist | Posted: Aug 02, 2010 - 16:31 |
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Brainwashing you for money Level: 15 CS Original | He went wrong by ripping everyone off. As soon as he went down the path of cheating on his girlfriend, ignoring his kids, taking others cash and providing nothing in return of significant value, he was already wrong. | |||||
#54 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Nanos | Posted: Aug 03, 2010 - 10:16 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | > taking others cash and providing nothing in return of significant value So what specifically could he have done differently with the money, which if I remember correctly was to pay off a loan for the land ? Or was it to develop the land ? Lets say you was in the same position, you got some land in your name and a bunch of friends said they would split the cost, then at some point they gave up and went away.. What should you do ? Sell the land and insist they each get back their stake ? Do we know if the people who gave money to Fresco gave it on the basis that they wanted it back if things didn't work out, or was it given on the basis that if it was used, it was gone ? Whilst I agree that it can look like cheating folk, and maybe cheating folk, its not entirely clear it was, or the intention at first was. Or how someone else might avoid ending up in the same trap as Fresco.. Hence my interest in picking apart his history and seeing how we might learn from what mistakes he made, and to try and spot what those mistakes are! Just how should you arrange finance so people are not ripped off when building a community ? (My own thought is that a community should always pay people to work there, then no one is putting money in without getting more out..) | |||||
#55 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
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