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Forum - Zeitgeist III: Moving Forward - Page 3

Tags: zeitgeist, The Zeitgeist Movement, TZM, Jared Lee Loughner, zeitgeist 3 debunked, zeitgeist III debunked, zeitgeist moving forward debunked, the zeitgeist movement debunked [ Add Tags ]

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Wolf BirdPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 12:37
(0)
 

I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
CS Original

^That. I'm still not convinced an RBE society will somehow just make everyone not commit crimes, work for free, etc.

#61 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
KeppPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:29
(1)
 

Level: 5
CS Original

The problem wasn't necessarily the experts, but the experts who weren't interviewed.
I.E. Making a movie on global warming and only interviewing the few scientists who are skeptical of global warming and trying to pass it off as the general consensus on global warming.

#62 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Wolf BirdPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:32
(0)
 

I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
CS Original

^another excellent point.

#63 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:35
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Those few scientists are the lucky ones who didn't get wrapped up in the NWO. They make it seem like their scientists are the "evolutionists" and everyone else is a "creationist". There's no point in interviewing the majority.

#64 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Wolf BirdPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:38
(1)
 

I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
CS Original

Why global warming somehow benefits the NWO is beyond me...

#65 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:40
(1)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

It gives the NWO a reason to install more measures of control in peoples' lives. "Alright everyone, because we're sapping the world's oil supply, we need to take away your cars."

#66 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Wolf BirdPosted: Feb 01, 2011 - 18:41
(1)
 

I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
CS Original

^LOL. Last I checked no one is having their car forecefully taken away.

#67 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
serjwPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 17:31
(-2)
 

Level: 0
Quote from Eric

[ Part 3 - Project Earth ]


Basically this is an introduction into RBE


It also talks at great length about circular cities, I know several people had criticisms of that, and I think it should be included.


[ Part 4 - Rise ]


Stuff about why this isn't anything like Marxism or anything else.


Ruppert claims all plastic is oil, but that's not true, a lot of plastics are made from corn and soy, the latter is especially true with tractors, which breaks his analogy.


The film goes on to fantasize about the entire world economy being shut down because of mass protests, and eventually The Man just gives up and surrenders to peace and love. I don't even think the creators of the Whole Earth Catalog were this naive. The music is also really cheesy too.


But it gets better!


It shows a vision of the future where kids are learning about the barbaric past, and of course there's tons of cool technology.


[ Conclusion ]


Unlike the Michael Moore films that Merola's brother has worked on, this movie wasn't even remotely entertaining. It was extremely dry and even halfway through I couldn't stop wishing it was almost over. There's no chance of this becoming a cinematic masterpiece of any kind, at least the first film was entertaining to some degree, and the second film at least held my attention for longer.


In short, it's a 2 hour, 41 minute sleeping pill meant to help others get on board and transform the world.


[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10025441<br />
[2] http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/08/28/amish-rape-scandals.htm<br />
[3] http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/profiling_2/index.html<br />
[4] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Property&searchmode=none />
[5] Barry Nicholas, An Introduction to Roman Law. Rev. ed. Ernest Metzger. Clarendon Press, 2008 (ISBN 978-0-19-876063-4).



Hey there Eric! This is a thread about the credibility of the movie, not your personal opinion of it. If you have ADHD and can't bear to sit through it, then turn it off! It does a great job of showing how an RBE is plausible; If you can't appreciate that, then tell us so, but don't tell us about your attention problems.

Dick.
#68 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
KeppPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 17:40
(-1)
 

Level: 5
CS Original
How about you suck black RBE cocks.
#69 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 17:41
(1)
 

Level: 6
CS Original
Breaking news: The movie doesn't have credibility.
#70 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Wolf BirdPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 17:53
(0)
 

I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
CS Original
So you come here just simply to be a sanctimonious jerk and resurrect an old thread to defend your sci-fi communism with robots, without offering any evidence that it would work.
#71 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 17:56
(2)
 

HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original
There is most certainly no credibility to the film. The entire thing just meanders in the vague and wishful thinking of someone who hasn't come to terms with the fact that exchange systems have never been "free" of constructs that extend beyond those which confine contemporary capitalism. Look, RBE is not based on a rational, well thought out understanding of human culture, exchange systems, and even science itself. The movie was not only terrible, it still promotes pseudo-science and the movement has continuously failed to prove its vision is plausible.
#72 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 18:03
(-1)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
Who is this shitbag and why does he think anyone cares what he has to say?
#73 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EricPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 19:45
(2)
 

Oooh baby, baby, baby, baby, ... EEE baby, baby, baby.

Level: 1
CS Original
Quote from serjw
Hey there Eric! This is a thread about the credibility of the movie, not your personal opinion of it. If you have ADHD and can't bear to sit through it, then turn it off! It does a great job of showing how an RBE is plausible; If you can't appreciate that, then tell us so, but don't tell us about your attention problems.

Dick.
I'm sorry that your dear leader couldn't make a film interesting enough to get all of the millions of new members he promised you, or the academy awards he day dreamed about, but you don't have to take it out on me. I'm so sure I am the one with AD(H)D, considering you claim that it is I who couldn't pay attention to the film and didn't speak of it's credibility, and yet in the very post you quote, I in fact do speak at length regarding its credibility and even provide sources.

You want to come vent your frustrations that your mom and friends at school or the unemployment office won't tow your party line, that's fine, but leave the people who suffer from ADHD out of it, because it's not healthy to shit on yourself like that.
#74 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 26, 2011 - 23:57
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
Also: fuck you.
#75 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
GoogolplexbytePosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 04:40
(1)
 

Level: 0
Why isn't their a proper page for Zeitgeist : Moving Forwards yet?

Considering how opinionated and aggressively worded this thread is, I doubt it'd be much use to anyone unsure of the truth with less patience than me. In fact it wasn't that helpful to me to be as the thread is mostly self-gratification. I think the amount of aggression on here towards anyone who isn't lucky enough to grow up in a sceptically conducive environment is completely backwards. I don't see how insults and ridicule are going to help any one.

I'm still unsure about the whole human nature part of the movie. I thought that what the film was getting at was that no one's fate is predetermined by genetics. And anything set as default by one's genes can be modified by one's environment. I don't think any one on here actually came to a consensus as to what the film was talking about, let alone how correct/wrong they were.

I loved Domokato's explanation on how human labour creating value requires the creation of currency, although it's unsourced and it'd be nice to see it expanded. In fact there is a lot of here's where TZM is wrong, without telling us what'd be right.

I also have some questions relating to the film;

Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?

How else are we supposed to fix the economy? Are there other better systems than the free market?

Why does everyone defending capitalism, assume the consumer fully understands what they're doing?

Does equality only correlate to improved everything? I saw Finland and Japan were often juxtaposed despite having equal equality.

Is property a good or necessary idea? consider that it's built around the ownership of our personal labour.

Is it possible to reform all criminals and live in a crime free society? I've seen some anecdotal evidence that it isn't.

Those are all the thing the film made me question, and I don't have good answers. Please make your response less technical and high minded. It'd be nice if you'd show the correct alternative when you kick people's beliefs from out under them.
#76 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Real RoxettePosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 07:23
(0)
 

There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

Level: 8
CS Original
Quote from Googolplexbyte

Why isn't their a proper page for Zeitgeist : Moving Forwards yet?
Because no one cares about that film.

Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?
Yes, because it's based on tabula rasa, a pseudoscience that humans are born blank slates. You can find a lot by Steven Pinker on the subject of genetic inheritance of personalities and stuff like that.
How else are we supposed to fix the economy?
From what I've seen it's actually starting to recover, though slowly. I'm not sure the answer to a slow recovery is to throw it out in favor of something without any coherence behind it. Think about it this way, where are the RBE blueprints/theories/etc that tell us how to actually implement it and make it work? It's all an old guy and a guy playing a giant xylophone saying "it'll just work, trust me!"
Are there other better systems than the free market?
It depends on who you ask. If you ask a Marxist you'll get a Marxist response, if you ask JimJesus you'll be told anything other than ultra free market capitalism is peeing into the wind.
Why does everyone defending capitalism, assume the consumer fully understands what they're doing?
Who is "everyone"? I don't think you mean people on this site, this site is lousy with anti-capitalists.
Is it possible to reform all criminals and live in a crime free society? I've seen some anecdotal evidence that it isn't.
There's more than anecdotal evidence to suggest you can't. Refer again to tabula rasa and also to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Unterweger

I hope that's not too technical for you, I kind of just did a quick overview, I didn't even get to all your questions. But I'll kick your beliefs out from under you if I feel they're stupid, this isn't the JREF, we insult people for fun.
#77 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 08:06
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
"Considering how opinionated and aggressively worded this thread is, I doubt it'd be much use to anyone unsure of the truth with less patience than me."

So make a better one, faget.
#78 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 11:12
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original
Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?


That's the wrong way around, the burden of proof lies with TVP to show that their assumptions are actually true.

How else are we supposed to fix the economy?


Break up the banks and decrease collusion between government and Wall Street.

Are there other better systems than the free market?


Right now? Not really. There are a bunch of approaches that seem promising - for instance, there's the concept of social value, which might be used to expand the concept of value we have right now. So instead of finding somebody to sell to, you'd offer your product, service or idea to society as a whole and get funding this way. This would allow for new jobs offering things that nobody could pay for individually, but that are well worth the cost on a societal level.

But the funding for alternative economic systems is pretty close to zero, so there doesn't seem to be a lot of professional work in that area.
#79 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 11:28
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
Quote from Googolplexbyte
I also have some questions relating to the film;

Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?

First you have to understand that "RBE" is a rip off. It's nothing new, nor is it a refitting of various old ideas. It's 'utopian socialism' and the Marxist concept of 'end communism' A world where humanity has evolved into a 'new socialist man' (homo economicus) and acheved a moneyless, propertyless, classless, stateless, post scarcity paradise. There are only 3 differences between RBE and Communism:
1. Where Marx has philosophies on how goods would be rationally allocated like labor theory of value..etc. Fresco has nothing but non sequitur stream of consciousness stories about his life.
2. Fresco tries to hide the fact it's communism by avoiding words like socialism, communism, collectivism and distract you by using "city designs" which he admits will probably be useless by the time RBE comes about.
3. "Technology" and "Science" can be used as an out of any problem. It's used as a God of the gaps argument if you want details (i.e. We'll figure out rational production and distribution of goods with science and technology later.) It's used as an excuse why communism doesn't work even though there's a multitude of reasons why it fails and technology is NOT on that list. It's also a religion, meaning if you just have faith in science anything his possible including heaven on earth.
So let's get into examples:
New Harmony, IN. Utopian socialist Robert Owen attempted an 'RBE' complete with city designs in the 1800 hundreds but couldn't change human nature to to fit his uber altruistic world view and it ended in deaths and degradation and had to be abandoned. Technology wouldn't of solved this problem.

Anarchist Spain went though a varying different versions of anarchism, one close to an RBE called anarchist communism which ended up being very violent and brutal demonstrating that when round peg human nature doesn't fit into the square hole of communism, the iron fist will try and make it fit. Even in a system that's bottom up.

War communism and early Stalin rule: In the beginning of the Soviet empire there was no money and attempts to change human nature which lead to famines and degradation and had to be abandoned for more liberal models of Marxism.

Quote from The Real Roxette
Are there other better systems than the free market?
It depends on who you ask. If you ask a Marxist you'll get a Marxist response, if you ask JimJesus you'll be told anything other than ultra free market capitalism is peeing into the wind.


Not true, I've said if they actually did was Keynes said to do it wouldn't be too bad, the market would just correct itself. There's degrees of shit, RBE is the highest degree of shit, no doubt. An-syns want to pee in the wind with labor unions, but it guess it's not much of a problem if you don't have a penis to make the pee an issue when it comes back.

Why does everyone defending capitalism, assume the consumer fully understands what they're doing?

Yup

Does equality only correlate to improved everything? I saw Finland and Japan were often juxtaposed despite having equal equality.

It's called egalitarianism, and no it doesn't. FTR Japan and Finland still have rich and poor people.

Is property a good or necessary idea? consider that it's built around the ownership of our personal labour.


Yes, it's absolutely vital especially for high order production along with money and trade.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to 'take' your car and your computer now. It's not yours anyway and I need it more.

Is it possible to reform all criminals and live in a crime free society? I've seen some anecdotal evidence that it isn't.

No. Is it possible to make everyone not stupid with public schools? Apparently, not because Zeitgeist still has a few followers.
#80 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 16:42
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
The best thing about people who use the same handle everywhere is you can Google it and see all the retarded shit they're into.
#81 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Mar 01, 2012 - 20:37
(0)
 

Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

Level: 3
Quote from Agent Matt

The best thing about people who use the same handle everywhere is you can Google it and see all the retarded shit they're into.


Fight for RBE by day, fight against creepers by night! #minecraftbasedeconomy
#82 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 02, 2012 - 04:56
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?


I don't think a RBE is impossible, I actually support a RBE. A Resource Booze Economy has made civilization flourish for thousands of years. Here is a movie called "How Beer Saved The World" that talks more in depth about a Resources Booze Economy and how it has worked for thousands of years.

In three parts.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8SdkufNBo
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdkqatEtVXg
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkoXGfXkgAk
#83 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
LockePosted: Mar 02, 2012 - 14:58
(1)
 

Level: 0
Quote from 2012 CT

Is an RBE impossible? what evidence is their for/against it? Are there examples of it being tested?


I don't think a RBE is impossible, I actually support a RBE. A Resource Booze Economy has made civilization flourish for thousands of years. Here is a movie called "How Beer Saved The World" that talks more in depth about a Resources Booze Economy and how it has worked for thousands of years.

In three parts.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8SdkufNBo
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdkqatEtVXg
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkoXGfXkgAk


I fully support Resource Booze Economy!
#84 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 02, 2012 - 15:42
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
I thought this youtube comment was funny and decided to post up a response to it.


moesez1 wrote on youtube 1 month ago: Beer is all about brain damage. They drank it because the waters got contaminated and the process of distilling grains and thus creating beer. Beer causes a small amount of brain damage and thus leading to alcoholism. Very and very harmful never the less. More barbaric behavior, war, child and wife abuse and who knows what.Cheers led to tears. I love how they are making it a heroic invention. I hardly think all these inventions were due to beer.We were evolving but beer kept us back. Lies



My response will be in a Al Bundy response in the youtube video below.

Al Bundy philosophy about beer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spIrhYfwi5c
#85 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
LockePosted: Mar 02, 2012 - 23:32
(0)
 

Level: 0
Quote from 2012 CT

I thought this youtube comment was funny and decided to post up a response to it.


moesez1 wrote on youtube 1 month ago: Beer is all about brain damage. They drank it because the waters got contaminated and the process of distilling grains and thus creating beer. Beer causes a small amount of brain damage and thus leading to alcoholism. Very and very harmful never the less. More barbaric behavior, war, child and wife abuse and who knows what.Cheers led to tears. I love how they are making it a heroic invention. I hardly think all these inventions were due to beer.We were evolving but beer kept us back. Lies



My response will be in a Al Bundy response in the youtube video below.

Al Bundy philosophy about beer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spIrhYfwi5c


Al Bundy is a true genius!
#86 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
GoogolplexbytePosted: Mar 13, 2012 - 09:03
(0)
 

Level: 0
Quote from Agent Matt

The best thing about people who use the same handle everywhere is you can Google it and see all the retarded shit they're into.


What's the worse thing you found?

Also thanks for the replies, especially JimJesus'.

I'm still not sure if I was expecting too much of this.
#87 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 13, 2012 - 11:17
(1)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
If you were expecting people to re-hash the same old arguments about TZM that we've re-hashed for years, then yes, you expected too much.

If you are unsatisfied with the treatment Moving Forward has received then make a better one yourself, because we are tired of it. Just because you registered a forum account doesn't mean anyone owes you jack shit.
#88 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 13, 2012 - 12:16
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original
Quote from Googolplexbyte

Quote from Agent Matt

The best thing about people who use the same handle everywhere is you can Google it and see all the retarded shit they're into.


What's the worse thing you found?

Also thanks for the replies, especially JimJesus'.

I'm still not sure if I was expecting too much of this.


@Googolplexbyte to be frank I believe AgentMatt was saying a few posts up that your a nobody. All you do is play video games all day and after watching TZM 3 all of a sudden your going to change the world while using such a retarded handle as "Googolplexbyte".

The stuff you said on your first post a few lines above is to the SP community very redundant rhetoric that we hear from CT's all the time. To SP members it's like you are at the beginning stages of some sort of CT sickness that can only be cured with a big dose of reality and time. From the perspective of a SP member we're not trying to win you over, we have been there and done that and in the end it's futile. For the most part we're attempting to poke holes/fun at your questions/ideas using the scientific method (when it can be applied), as well as facts and logic; as others outside of the website watch in amusement and/or are possibly learning more from it. This is a way Skeptics and CT's can coexists on a skeptic based website.

Eventually with time you'll snap out of it and if you don't it's probably because you believe in fringe groups/thinking only, as well as you may be living off the dole. Either way this is how SP members coexists with CT's so enjoy your stay.
#89 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
GoogolplexbytePosted: Mar 13, 2012 - 12:50
(0)
 

Level: 0
I don't intend to believe in any conspiracy theories (I think that's what CT stands for there), and from the evidence I've seen I fully accept I was wrong to believe what TZM were saying.

I don't mean to come in here acting entitled to have myself heard or converted or anything, I just misunderstood the nature of this site. By no means do I think I could do a better job, I'm not particularly good at being sceptically minded.

Also in a meaningless defence of myself I don't in any way believe I can change the world, also I don't spend that much time playing video games as they are very expensive and I am only mildly wealthy. Also what's wrong with the user name Googolplexbyte?
#90 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]

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