Skeptic Project

Definitly an interesting question to pose.One can only wonder if this question is running through the heads of those two muppets
Shane Nolan said this on April 22, 2011 at 11:24 am | Reply

And there we go the episode of this muppets time on the stage is over.Anticultist I hope this site stays here forever as an eternal testament to the idiocy of this muppets as this is how they will always be remembered
Shane Nolan said this on April 22, 2011 at 11:38 am | Reply

I'm confused between the two, Jacque Fresco says that the Zeitgeist Movement should have created a list of scientists (explaining that's not what the Zeitgeisters did to point out they knew nothing) and then you hear Roxanne Meadows insult scientists and say that they would not understand anything they present and are not willing to show anything yet? All I can say is good luck with that strategy. Funny picture.
BranManFloMore said this on April 26, 2011 at 2:39 am | Reply

Yeah I know mate, the way that they throw one line of reasoning out to one subset of people, then switch it around completely oppositely to get on the good side of another is what most people term:
Pathological or compulsive liars.
This is usually a characteristic of a sociopath, and lord knows that Fresco and Meadows fit neatly into those categories, they will say anything to get their way.
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html
Just like a lot of zeitards will too, Neil Kiernen stephenson, That dude Thunder whatever his name is, even merola twists the truth to make himself look all shiny for the cult..
anticultist said this on April 26, 2011 at 5:32 pm | Reply

What will happen if VTV takes over is that a lot of members will leave but those who remain will be the most extreme members and the most likely to bow to his will.
Jason Bright said this on May 3, 2011 at 5:37 pm | Reply

hey welcome !
Glad you got the invite. I will send the email through now.
Looking forward to your additional information.
anticultist said this on January 8, 2010 at 2:28 am | Reply

Marcuse sees irrationalities in capitalism's self-proclaimed rationalism. He maintains that societies prosperities and growth are based upon waste and destruction, its progress fueled by exploitation and oppression, while its freedoms and democracy are based on manipulation. Marcuse slices through the ideologies of capitalism and sharply criticizes the dehumanization and alienation in its opulence and affluence, the slavery in its labour system, the ideology and indoctrination within its culture, the fetishism in its consumerism, and the danger and insanity in its military industrial complex

Marcuse also recognises the liberating potential hidden in the oppressive social system, especially in technology, which could be used to eliminate alienated labour and to produce a better life for all. Marcuse always stresses liberation and his thought is animated by a utopian vision that life could be as it is in art and dreams if only a revolution would take place that would eliminate its repressive features.

"What Marcuse proposed was that the burdens of material scarcity ...the requirement that man must provide for himself by the sweat of his own brow - is what makes our society so repressive. With the increase in automation and factory production, however, we are at the point of lifting this curse. Under post scarcity conditions, machines will do all the work and people will be left free to laugh, play, love and create."

"Freedom of enterprise was from the beginning not altogether a blessing. As the liberty to work or to starve, it spelled toil, insecurity, and fear for the vast majority of the population. If the individual were no longer compelled to prove himself on the market, as a free economic subject, the disappearance of this kind of freedom would be one of the greatest achievements of civilization. The technological processes of mechanization and standardization might release individual energy into a yet uncharted realm of freedom beyond necessity. The very structure of human existence would be altered; the individual would be liberated from the work world's imposing upon him alien needs and alien possibilities. The individual would be free to exert autonomy over a life that would be his own. If the productive apparatus could be organized and directed toward the satisfaction of the vital needs, its control might well be centralized; such control would not prevent individual autonomy, but render it possible."

Fresco says at all turns that no-one invents anything. We all build on the inventions of the previous generations. This is true of everyone from Edison to Fresco and beyond.
Nevertheless, great to hear that another author was also involved with this kind of research.
Hypernation said this on January 3, 2010 at 10:01 pm | Reply

Thanks for taking time to reply.
It seems hardly worthy of quoting Fresco, when he does not see fit to quote the academic that started his concept.
Does this pass all fans of him by ?
Fresco, while a seemingly decent chap, has failed to achieve any level of credibility in his work in 30 years, now he has a bunch of ardent fans [while it lasts], and this is completely due to the Zeitgeist phenomenon.
It seems almost satirical that the venus projects popularity occurred off the back of an internet conspiracy movie, that has since shed its skin and become a public relations campaign and advertising network, propagandising for a solution that is solely based in literature and way off in the future.
Personally speaking it is irrelevant whether Fresco agrees with Marcuse, what is relevant is that Marcuse was peer reviewed and considered an academically researched author.
While Jacque Fresco is a non descript artist who has stitched other peoples philosophical workings and political leanings onto his imagery, and somehow is considered a genius by his fans.
Thomas Edison was peer reviewed in the correct scientific manner, and provided evidence might I add, unlike Mr Fresco.
With little peer review process and academic backing, how is it even worthy of quoting Jacque Fresco on a piece about his much acclaimed fore runner Herbert Marcuse?
I suggest you read Marcuse by the way, if you have time.
anticultist said this on January 3, 2010 at 11:37 pm | Reply

The fact is that i cant get away with not referencing people properly in my degree course, and i dont know how fresco has gotten away with it all this time. when i write a paper on finance, i cant just make up ideas and then claim i am correct because it seems logical. and i couldnt do that as a motorsport engineering student either. i really do have a lot to say on that subject.
I know that his ideas are experimental but that doesnt give him the rigth not to acknowledge writers or people who have been influencial to him. the only reason why he hasnt done this as far as i can see is either because of a lack of competence on his part, or just to greedily allow people to think that all of this was his idea and its all so new.
The fact is that just isnt fair. also if he doesnt want to use secondary sources then fine, but then he should reference his own primary data. oh wait i forgot, he doesnt have any.
So the bottom line here is that venus project and zeitgeist movement followers are expected to believe anything fresco says as devine truth even though he has no real sources and no data to refer to.
How he has gotten away with this kind of behaviour is beyond me. hell i would be a famous scientist by now if i could just get away with publishing papers with all kinds of unproven ideas with no references and no sources and then just claim i was correct. i could just claim i, one day, will build the ultimate time machine! oh but theres just one small problem. i have no data, no sources, no credibility, no one will cite or review my work, i refuse to accept any academic rebuttle, and im just some guy. damn, suddenly my time machine project is looking a little weak is it not?
logan86 said this on January 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Reply

i hate you you are a loser and my enemy
fighter said this on January 14, 2010 at 11:21 am | Reply

It stings when you realise your hero is nothing but a plagiariser does'nt it.
I am not your enemy, I am your friend, I am teaching you facts.
anticultist said this on January 14, 2010 at 1:08 pm | Reply

thank you anticultist you saved me from following this TVP cult.Not to be egotistical and advertising myself but we at the rbe foundation are at least trying to not go down the same path as TZM and we understand and even agree with your criticism (on most of your blogs here)not to mention have also had our fair share of trouble with the three charmed ones(or three stooges depending on which you look at) and certainly realize we need to work within the legal system and co-operate with other NPOs and NGOs if we want change(as well as working on implementing transparency with regards to funds when we get legalization)
oreolvrs said this on February 14, 2010 at 2:43 pm

Thanks for coming over and reading the blogs, and I am happy that you in the RBEF agree on the most part with the criticisms presented.
Indeed I have observed your team and I have no complaints with the way you operate and attempt dialogue with TVP and TZM on their forums and in emails.
Also I have paid special attention to how your transparency is already in place, even before you have an assigned legislative NPO and funding.
Compared to TVP and TZM you are a perfect example of how this should all be operating, in full public view, I can only see it getting better over there if you follow that example to its fullest potential.
anticultist said this on February 14, 2010 at 3:36 pm | Reply

Marcuse and Fresco could have arrived at similar ideas independently. I've noticed that Fresco's friend, the "futurist" F.M. Esfandiary (whom I knew slightly before his death and cryonic suspension in 2000), presents a vision of swinging sex, polyamory and liberated child rearing which resembles Robert Heinlein's portrayals of such social developments in his novels. But to the best of my knowledge, F.M. and Heinlein never crossed paths or acknowledged cribbing each other's ideas.
You can read F.M.'s vision of life in that mysterious, far-future year 2010 in his 1981 essay, "Up-Wing Priorities":
http://www.scribd.com/doc/10948503/Up-Wing-Priorities
Also, refer to:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/20239753/Alan-Brooks-on-FM-2030
Mark Plus said this on April 8, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Reply

while what you say C0ULD be possible, I find it unlikely since Marcuse was a highly public figure in the decade leading up to and during Frescos 'ideas' to create his Venus Project, so while it is nice of you to defend Jacque, it is not factual to assume he is innocent.
Therefore I am going with my original post because Fresco has not been shown to of created anything himself from scratch, and has self admitted he uses others works.
My question would be why not reference materials that are identical to his concepts, but reference things that back up his concepts that dont invade his illusory individuality ?
anticultist said this on April 8, 2010 at 5:51 pm | Reply

Well, if anyone wanted to check out who influenced Jacque Fresco, you can simply check out his recommending reading at the following:
http://thevenusproject.com/images/stories/booklist.pdf
But this blog can stand on it's own as you don't see Herbert Marcuse in the booklist.
If no one feels like reading, I would recommend this documentary called "Herbert's Hippopotamus: Marcuse And Revolution In Paradise":
The eBook that's linked here is now linked in RBOSE Wiki:
http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOSEBOOKS
The eBooks are being collected there from their recommended list of reading material. And more.
I find this individual very interesting on a few things:
1.He influenced the black panther movement (in particular - Angela Davis) teaching everyone that they could be an academic activist. Even the Woman Movement and the Student Movement. I know, a lot movements.
2. He talks about planned obsolescence.
3. Anti-Vietnam War.
4. Ronald Reagan (as governor) criticized him heavily for his ideas.
5. Getting death threats right after MLK and Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated.
6. Students of his were attacked by Police.
7. The media tried to portray him as pro-violent.
8. He advocated that the education system should hold equality no matter what race, religion, business requirements practiced or gender.
9. He was against mindless conformity.
10. He was considered as a communist.
I wouldn't know why Jacque Fresco wouldn't add Herbert Marcuse to his recommended booklist of people to check out. Especially since this was back in the 60′s and 70′s. I find Jacque Fresco not being influence by him or not knowing who he is very difficult to believe after what I have reviewed here.
Maybe he just wanted to avoid adding him in the mix to avoid people calling TVP a new form of communism. Who knows.
BranManFloMore said this on April 30, 2010 at 9:32 pm | Reply

Maybe he just wanted to avoid adding him in the mix to avoid people calling TVP a new form of communism. Who knows.
I think thats highly unlikely, because even without referencing Marcuse, Fresco is accused of communism due to his 'ideas' having similar concepts ingrained in them.
If Fresco was or was not to have referenced Marcuse as a major inspiration and creator of his 'ideas' this would not have changed a thing regarding peoples claims of Fresco being a communist sympathiser.
The only thing that truly seems to make sense to me is he was possibly hoping that by not referencing Marcuse he could appear to be the inventor of this whole matter.
Marcuse was a giant in his day, how Fresco could of possibly missed him or his work, and even avoid any referencing to him as a direct influence in his entire theorising is beyond my understanding.
Also you must bear in mind Marcuse was overtly critical of communism and capitalism as a standpoint, so the references to communism dont stick with him.
anticultist said this on April 30, 2010 at 10:11 pm | Reply

"I think thats highly unlikely, because even without referencing Marcuse he is accused of this due to his 'ideas' having similar concepts ingrained in them."
Hmmm...
"If he was or was not to have referenced Marcuse as a major inspiration and creator of his ideas this would not have changed a thing."
I guess not.
"The only thing that truly seems to make sense to me is he was possibly hoping that by not referencing Marcuse he could appear to be the inventor of this whole idea."
That's true, I can't argue with that most likely possibility.
"Marcuse was a giant in his day, how Fresco could of possibly missed him or his work, and even avoid any referencing to him as a direct influence in his entire theorising is beyond my understanding."
Same here, if people like Albert Einstein hit his radar, I would think the same for Herbert Marcuse as a popular philosophy teacher in California. I don't think being in different coasts in the United States would have made Jacque Fresco that blind to him.
"Also you must bear in mind Marcuse was overtly critical of communism and capitalism as a standpoint, so the references to communism dont stick with him."
I understand, I think he was called communist as a character assassination because he was friends Angela Davis. She publicly admitted that she was a communist then said that Herbert Marcuse didn't approve of her being in the Communist Party, but still remained friends until his death. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought he was communist.
Here's the link to the film I forgot to add:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5311625903124176509#
BranManFloMore said this on April 30, 2010 at 10:20 pm | Reply

Thanks for that
Good documentary, I enjoyed that it was nice to get a bit more information about him.
anticultist said this on April 30, 2010 at 10:27 pm | Reply

[...] Herbert Marcuse the inventor of Jacque Frescos "ideas" ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:09 pm | Reply

[...] Herbert Marcuse the inventor of Jacque Frescos "ideas" ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:10 pm | Reply

[...] corrupt trademarking an idea that's something he took ideas from and calling it something [...]
A Study On The Failure of a VTV Debate « The Zeitgeist Movement Examined said this on January 20, 2011 at 10:00 am | Reply

So you're not going to modify or remove the false information you are spreading? Once again, REFUTATION: http://biophily.wordpress.com/?p=10&preview=true
Biophily said this on April 10, 2011 at 8:12 pm | Reply

Some of us have lives outside of things like this hence why I did not reply or allow the comment till now, the blog is not a priority of mine, merely a past time for criticising a cult and a failed man and his followers. So in future when replying try and refrain from your knee jerk impatience and give people time to get round to even knowing you posted in the first place.
Some fair points made, but the main theme and concern in my point is such:
Fresco is no originator of the ideas, if my statements claiming Marcuse arrived at the idea before Fresco are incorrect, and that is a big if. Consider the length of time required to write, canvas and publish a book. Marcuse could easily have been writing and contemplating One dimensional man for a decade or more prior to its release, which would place its origination in the 50s.
The obvious points you make about utopianism predating even Marcuse were not missed by me, nor were they unknown to me. I think even the less knowledgable of your and my readers would have been aware of this when you consider the fact Jules Verne et al who are notorious public icons were involved in this utopianist concept.
Fresco even cites the movie "metropolis" as a major influence on his ideas. Even though these ideas were floating around the populace way back in the previous century as you have briefly noted. This is nothing new, and my point still stands, Fresco is by no means a genius or a modern icon of intelligence. He is merely a repeating mouthpiece for social concerns that are underlying in most humans throughout the world. The very idea that Fresco has tapped into something unique or original is a falsehood, and he is no more influential or important than the average human being who yearns for a better world in his imagination.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm | Reply

Some of us have lives outside of things like this hence why I did not reply or allow the comment till now, the blog is not a priority of mine, merely a past time for criticising a cult and a failed man and his followers. So in future when replying try and refrain from your knee jerk impatience and give people time to get round to even knowing you posted in the first place.
That was my mistake and I realized after the fact. My user was unlinked from this blog and I couldn't see my first post which was still awaiting moderation. At first I thought you deleted it. That was a mistake.
My response to the rest of your comment is on my blog if you care.
biophily said this on April 13, 2011 at 2:23 am

Another thing I feel you are ignorant of is the following, you claim Fresco has no need of scientific review, yet he claims the use of science to aid and alleviate the stratification and problems of the world today.
Irrespective of your personal leanings towards Fresco, or my own leanings away from him, without peer review and scientific basis in anything Fresco claims he is of no use to the world as anything than an ideological artist. This is of no specific benefit to the human condition and rehashing concerns and points made by thousands of previous authors and academics before him only compounds my point about his unoriginality and lack of superior knowledge/skills.
Bottom line is here, the scientific method requires actual science, with no actual science being done by Fresco or his crackpot cult we are still left with an old man who has nothing to offer the world. period.
Fresco is no more an originator or a creator of a better world than I am in my dreams asleep.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 7:23 pm | Reply

you claim Fresco has no need of scientific review,
I'm not sure I claimed that?
Irrespective of your personal leanings towards Fresco, or my own leanings away from him, without peer review and scientific basis in anything Fresco claims he is of no use to the world as anything than an ideological artist.
I actually agree with you. Unless Fresco submits to the conventions of modern science, his ideas will not prosper. But that does not subtract from the validity of his ideas on any actual basis. It simply subtracts from the shortcut credibility that scientific peer-review offers.
I repeat the point another way: I don't know if his ideas are valid -precisely because they haven't been peer reviewed. But that doesn't make them invalid. It simply means that his ideas have not mustered the credibility to be accepted and put into practice by the mainstream. But even if his ideas were peer-reviewed and accepted, that is still not a guarantee that his ideas are actually "TRUE." This is due to the flaws of the peer-review process. The peer-review process merely gives an approximate judgment on whether something is valid (let alone "TRUE"), and thus it facilitates an ease of consensus. The consensus gives contrived validity and marketable credibility. That is all. It is not the golden compass of truth (or even utility). I know that it is very discomforting, but I'm afraid it may be the case.
The peer review process applies to Fresco's strictly scientific hypotheses that pertain to specific functions of technological infrastructure and function (such as central cybernation, global resource sensors, high speed vacuum trains, self-erecting structures and memory metals, self-replicating machines, etc. And perhaps his claims about human nature as well. These things can be peer-reviewed. Until these hypotheses are tested, they remain in the realm of philosophy of science. Much of Fresco's work is indeed philosophical. Philosopher of science may be an appropriate label for him. In this case, any of his ideas are perfectly fine for debate and to have full certainty against his ideas is naive/premature, beings philosophy is speculative and not empirical.
This is of no specific benefit to the human condition and rehashing concerns and points made by thousands of previous authors and academics before him only compounds my point about his unoriginality and lack of superior knowledge/skills.
I see you stick to conventional views about so-called "originality." To me, it is an utterly nonsensical concept. Our ability to preserve and access creations through digital technology has allowed us to really realize this. We can now look through history at the touch of a button and compare so much that has been created, and track the ideas. We can now realize that in the past, the concept of originality was born out of ignorance, because people were incapable of tracking the genealogy of ideas and creations, due to limited ability to preserve and access them. Therefore they lacked the advantage of having an overview as we do today.
Everything in the universe is recombined, including ideas. From my experience, I see that people tend to use the "unoriginality" argument when they simply don't like somebody or their work. A sort of cop-out argument. Originality is an illusion.
Bottom line is here, the scientific method requires actual science, with no actual science being done by Fresco or his crackpot cult we are still left with an old man who has nothing to offer the world. period.
Fresco is no more an originator or a creator of a better world than I am in my dreams asleep.
You are right about the science. So far, he offers nothing as tangible as formidable contributors in science. But you are mistaken in one area. He offers powerful inspiration for many people who find themselves hopeless in a world of growing distress. They now look to science and technology for a better way of life, as a result of Fresco's inspiring effect. That is what he offers. Whether you value that or not, says nothing about Fresco. It only says something about your values under your perspective. But because you do not value this aspect of Fresco, does not actually mean that Fresco has no value. Be aware of the insignificance of your subjectivity to the rest of the world. His value is in the mind of the interpreter.
biophily said this on April 13, 2011 at 3:13 am

Fresco has nothing to peer review in the first place, so your attempt to slur the peer review process into some meaningless contrivance has failed. Fresco is not even scientific or academic enough to enter into it, his approach to the topic is pretend to invent something important, dont source it or prove it and keep it hidden.
Your section about standing on the shoulders of giants is common knowledge I saw no purpose in even discussing it as it seemed obvious I should be aware of it [you clearly dont give me credit of intelligence], but if you want to mention it go ahead, it still does not detract from the fact Fresco is nothing but a less important person in a long line of more important and worthy predecessors.
What you call of Fresco being inspiring the rest of us call bullshitting.
No more glorification of Fresco is going to continue here, take your over estimations of his achievements and lack of evidence to validate it elsewhere.
anticultist said this on April 13, 2011 at 9:43 am

Another point is it is interesting to note how Fresco does not give his cult members any books to read by Marcuse. His followers would read Marcuse and realise there is nothing unique about Fresco or his notions, and would more than likely cease to see him as a unique visionary any longer.
Frescos power is one of cult of personality, his followers percieve him as a grandfather figure with unique insight and concern for their well being and the planet. This could not be further from the truth, he has achieved nothing or given anything to the rest of society or the world that has not involved his own benefit. He is no more a philanthropist than a businessman in it for their own inheritence. Where are Frescos good worldly deeds ? Where are his inventions that saved the world ? Where are his ideas that transformed entire communities into abundant paradises ?
Short answer they only exist in his rhetorical outbursts devised to please the masses into believing his pitch, and subsequently buying his product and giving up money and freetime to benefit Fresco and Meadows.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 7:47 pm | Reply

Another point is it is interesting to note how Fresco does not give his cult members any books to read by Marcuse.
Perhaps there is too much in Marcuse's work with which Fresco disagrees. Or, he may simply be unaware of Marcuse's work.
His followers would read Marcuse and realise there is nothing unique about Fresco or his notions, and would more than likely cease to see him as a unique visionary any longer.
Wouldn't they have the same reaction if they read any number of other books on Fresco's reading list?
I'm not sure they all think he is a genius. Some may when they first encounter Fresco, but let's not exaggerate. Really it is up to an individual's ignorance to consider someone a genius. All they should really say is: "I think this man knows more than me on this specific topic."
But if a person did have the reaction you described after reading Marcuse, it would be at their own indiscretion to immediately devalue Fresco and accuse him of copying Marcuse. The reader may be disappointed and attempt relieve this emotional discomfort by emotionally detaching themself from Fresco through the act of publicly throwing a handful of feces at Fresco's reputation. Perhaps they would feel like a fool for ever thinking Fresco was somewhat brilliant to begin with, and they may hate Fresco in place of blaming themselves for their own naivete. Or maybe they'll turn the page and close the book and move on because it is not significant and is completely in accordance with how the world works.
On the other hand, if they had temperate judgment, they might recognize the subtle differences and derive the value of the ideas based on these differences, and see both men as thinkers (with differences). If we applied your logic to every thinker who has ever existed, we would say that no one is valuable, and everyone is a copier.
From what I can see, you illustrate your passionate hate for Fresco quite vividly. However, the argument is not powerful at all because it is pulled straight from your prejudice. Your expectation of what Fresco must do to be valuable breaks your argument beyond repair. You can set the standard as high as you want, but keep in mind, it is only YOUR standard. The questions you raised about Fresco's contributions are arbitrary in nature because they are based on the standard of achievement that you have set.
There is no objective standard by which we can measure the value of anyone. We can speak about their tangible contributions to the world, but we can also speak about the downsides to their contributions. Who would have thought the invention of cars would have resulted in the deaths of so many people? If Fresco invented the first car, I'm sure your logic would have blamed him for their deaths. You must realize that much of your entire argument is paralyzed by your prejudice against Fresco, your own personal bitter disdain. You speak of Fresco as if he has harmed the world. That has nothing to do with Fresco in this world, and has everything to do with your psychology.
he has achieved nothing
I don't know how you know this? Have you done rigorous research into his past? I have been doing so, and I have found that he generously donated one of his major inventions to the U.S. Government (at his own expense) because he believed it would make aircraft flight safer. I also know that all of the money made from one of his major "achievements" was donated to build a cancer hospital. I know he worked to end child labor abuse. I know he attempted to contribute ideas to the Great Society and succeeded. I know he inspires thousands (possibly millions) around the world to yearn for a saner world through science and technology.
He eventually stopped trying to contribute to the mainstream because he realized it is all a rigged game that requires you to indebt yourself to someone or become manipulated. So he set out to have control of a very radical idea and has stuck to it. Any contributions he may have made in the past is historical dust, and how you can know the details amazes me.
or given anything to the rest of society or the world that has not involved his own benefit.
If this is true, then he is like 100% of the rest of the world.
biophily said this on April 13, 2011 at 3:58 am

Wall of text !
short answers:
Yes I have researched Fresco, and your glorification of him is sickening and simply unsubstantiated/unproven claims.
No I am not the type of person you have tried to describe me as or insinuate me as.
Funnily enough I see this entire blog as poking fun at people like you who idolise and worship Fresco, Meadows and Merola. It is because of idealist fools who have a lack of valid data and science that I began laughing at the cult, it continues to this very day years after it began. No improvements to the skillsets of the cult members has occurred, nothing has been offered up but empty rhetoric and online discourses about how great Fresco and the venus project are. To the rest of the world zeitgeist/venus project are all invisible and of no importance, why ? Because zeitards have done nothing good for anyone in the real world and over glorify their stature and importance on the internet. Simply put zeitards are full of hot air and moral superiority, and of no consequence to realists.
"If this is true, then he is like 100% of the rest of the world.,
Your gross over exaggeration of numbers and knee jerk defense of some old fart you probably don't even know is typical of a zeitard. Throwing out 100% numbers of no human beings being altruistic is very insincere of you, and putting it forward as if this justifies Frescos lack of input to the world ? This simply shows how low you are willing to stoop to defend his already fragile public image, many altruists have achieved things for this world with no benefit for themselves. Of course you will attempt to discuss emotional satisfaction and feeling good about yourself in the sick and twisted way Fresco/Meadows do to invalidate human aid, but people do not buy that underhand method anymore than they do Frescos other meaningless and untrue anecdotes.
Things such as memory metals and high speed trains were invented, researched and utilised long before Fresco cottoned onto them haha Yet another example of a zeitard giving credit to Fresco for things Fresco had no design or origination of. Seriously you are making yourself sound silly doing this.
Typing walls of text does not make you any more correct, if anything it serves to make you look like a zeitgeist zealot, a guard dog for the cult if you will. The points made about Fresco in this whole series of blogs still stand.
anticultist said this on April 13, 2011 at 9:33 am

The advertising industry is part of the problem of society. It plays on the ignorance of the masses and is very manipulative in nature. Peter Joseph, being employed by this industry is well versed in the tricks of the trade. An ad man can sell you anything, including the idea of a free society. He treads onto dangerous territory by using Zeitgeist members as free labor for his marketing efforts. Members are captivated by the idea of a society in which there is no work, but end up working for the Venus Project for free! The design of the Zeitgeist Movement website implies that it is a humanitarian movement. The rhetoric is inspiring, and contains quotes from famous humanitarians like Martin Luther King. The website is misleading in that it does not clearly state the true objective of the movement, which is to promote the Venus Project. A Zeitgeist member would argue that by promoting the Venus Project they are helping to transform society. This is only true if the Venus Project actually does something to benefit society, which it does not. They are in the business of selling materials and making propaganda films.
The Zeitgeist Movement is manipulative in that it cons (mostly young) people into becoming mouthpieces for the Venus Project by disguising itself as a humanitarian movement. Zeitgeist members are convinced they are making a difference when all they are doing is learning how to be good marketers, just like Peter Joseph. This is false empowerment and a very manipulative practice. If a member wishes to take real actions based on the ideology of the Venus Project, they are encouraged go and start their own movement somewhere else.
Peter Joseph, Roxanne Meadows, and Jacque Fresco believe that their actions are justified. Their self-righteousness blinds them to the fact that they are being manipulative in their actions. What they are really doing is making Zeitgeist members impotent, keeping them entangled in an endless web of rhetoric and incapable of real action.
gillian said this on January 7, 2010 at 9:36 pm | Reply

Yeah they entice them into the idea that the movement is all about not working in the future, yet ironically these people are all being used as free labour now, and working more now than they probably did !
anticultist said this on January 7, 2010 at 11:08 pm | Reply

what annoys me more than anything is that the members of the movement are blind to all of these things. they really do believe that by advertising someone elses product/ideas they are somehow making the world a better place. i just dont even know what to say, its too depressing really.
bohemianchild said this on January 8, 2010 at 1:28 am | Reply

The scariest part is that it is effective, hundreds of new members [signing up for the newsletters] are sucked into the movements campaign weekly , even daily, and the campaign to advertise the venus project as the solution continues to grow.
If they were advertising alternative options that are going down the same path, it would be much less worrying.
But there is no practice of giving alternatives a chance in their advertising campaign [it is all about the venus project], and alternatives are not respected as equally important.
For all others are considered as a group stealing someones trademarked idea.
anticultist said this on January 8, 2010 at 2:22 am | Reply

"Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows have been financially supporting this project through outside jobs for 35 years. We are now beginning to get donations and we deeply appreciate your contributions in this way. Unfortunately we still live in a monetary system and there is no other way we can print the books, produce our models and make our videos."
"Donations are used to help promote the direction of Future By Design, the nonprofit sector of The Venus Project."
This is taken right off their webpage, under what you can do/get involved.
Basicaly on that page its just advertising and promotion for their project, which is simply making books to sell, models to animate with, and videos to sell with their models animated in.
[sarcasm]
Sounds like a worthy project to fund, count me in, I would much rather finance this than say...pay for people to survive living the week out.
[end sarcasm]
anticultist said this on January 14, 2010 at 6:58 pm | Reply

I had to reply to this one.
"It is clear to even the uninitiated that the zeitgeist movement is on a constant advertising campaign, while they call it spreading awareness, it is simply another term used in the advertising industry, and a key concept in its initial product placement in the mind of the public consumer. Here is an example
of how market strategists work with advertising campaigns:
First they gather a team of dedicated individuals to create an image they want to present to the public."
The communication team. I'm not a fan of the word "advertisement" but when you hear Peter Joseph on his radio show saying that he is hiring PR before ZDAY, then yeah... that is advertisement.
[This was before ZDAY]
"[TZM check] They have most certainly collected a lot of advertising dummies to jockey their product."
Yeah, I remember reading the Zeitgeist Orientation Guide and at the end, he advocates for a communication team and what he says is spread the word on MYSPACE, FACEBOOK and the rest of the social network sites out there. So, yeah... it's the digital age, I think any activist organization would operate the same in 2010. I would expect more offline activism advocated as well.
(Source) Pg. 82:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf
"Second and most important key role of any advertising and branding is generating awareness and recognition of a certain product or service."
Yeah... I think the Zeitgeist Media Project is going to be the next project. TZM certainly has a lot of websites up:
ZeitgeistMediaProject.com
ZeitgeistMovie.com
TheZeitgeistMovement.com
ZDAY2010.org
It makes you wonder how many websites is he going to make before he decides to take action with his movement. Especially how many 3rd party websites their going to be as well just promoting.
"[TZM check]They have certainly made a concerted effort to impose their image on every possible website. This is particularly prevalent with anything dissenting or harmful to their public image. Venus project attempted trademarking,
Zeitgeist being an identifying product name for everything Peter Joseph Merola does."
I guess reputation matters more than activism.
"Third and the second most important concern is to actually condition the minds of consumers as to what image you would want them to associate with the product"
I see an ongoing confusion on what TZM members are going to associate with and what not to associate with.
"[TZM check]Well this is an ongoing campaign that is eating away at the possibility their image be tainted, the minds of the current consumers [their members] are always attended to, and it is their goal to make sure nobody online gets away with bastardizing their brand image and group [Roxanne Madows even
used this term in emails about their trademarking of the RBE term]."
Yeah, I read that and if they are going to protect the names of "Zeitgeist" and "RBE" to this extreme, I find it difficult to see TZM moving forward in anyway. It's guaranteed infighting.
"However, here in lies a problem, once having established a very strong and powerful brand name, it is hard to step away from the existing image. If in the future, one would want to project a new image, or take on a different market position, the identity has been established. This would take another series of advertising efforts to transform the image of the product."
Yeah, I remember on one of his shows catch him saying that he would name his next film "Moving Forward" without the Zeitgeist attachment. But it looks like he changed his mind and wanted to add Zeitgeist in it again by calling it "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward". I wonder as soon as it comes out, will he and Mods quickly lock threads regarding this future film and throw such threads in the MISC. and say that the film is not the movement like he does with "Zeitgeist: Addendum" where he one day takes it out of the toolkit and puts it back?:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=251789
"[TZM check] Peter Joseph himself is encountering this with his dissociation with his initial claims in his first conspiracy movie, where he has edited, re edited, and denied discussion of off topic subjects he wishes not to address. Unfortunately for him , he can not turn the clock back, and 50 million + people
are testament to his mistake."
I'll be waiting for the Director's cut, that's for sure.
"So in short what they call awareness, is simply nothing short of an online advertising campaign, furthering the market strength of their product, and perception is everything."
In the article, that's what they call it - "awareness".
"You might ask what their branded product actually is? That is for you to use your own intellect and figure out."
It's up for folks to decide for sure.
"But it is also interesting to note that the maker of Zeitgeist has experience from within the advertising industry, and has self-confessed this in radio shows and interviews, so it is of little wonder the movement is nothing short of an advertising campaign he is overseeing."
Good point.
"Article used: link"
I read that article and it breaks it down to a science, doesn't it? I think that's why most people don't look at it as advertising, because the advertising itself doesn't look like advertisement for it being artistic. Very interesting read I must say.
"And this is pretty much it, the anti dollar dollar, the anti marketing dollar, the righteous indignation dollar, the anger dollar huge in times of recession, and the trapped dollar."
Just like Bill Hicks said - yeah, this is an interesting blog.
The video is awesome.
---------
"The advertising industry is part of the problem of society. It plays on the ignorance of the masses and is very manipulative in nature. Peter Joseph, being employed by this industry is well versed in the tricks of the trade. An ad man can sell you anything, including the idea of a free society. He treads onto
dangerous territory by using Zeitgeist members as free labor for his marketing efforts. Members are captivated by the idea of a society in which there is no work, but end up working for the Venus Project for free! The design of the Zeitgeist Movement website implies that it is a humanitarian movement. The
rhetoric is inspiring, and contains quotes from famous humanitarians like Martin Luther King. The website is misleading in that it does not clearly state the true objective of the movement, which is to promote the Venus Project. A Zeitgeist member would argue that by promoting the Venus Project they are
helping to transform society. This is only true if the Venus Project actually does something to benefit society, which it does not. They are in the business of selling materials and making propaganda films."
This is what bothers me a great deal... The quotes from MLK and Ghandi are on the website as soon as you enter it but yet on his show, he says that TZM is anti-philosophical at the same time where he tries to convince everyone listening that TZM is not a cult or a scam:

3:37
But you can listen to the whole thing as he tries to explain that TZM is not a cult or a scam.
If TZM is anti-philosophical, then I think Peter Joseph should remove those quotes from his website and have them be removed from Chapter websites as well, if he doesn't - then I will see that as manipulation and to boost romanticism. It's sickening and disheartening to me to see such tactic be used.
But at the end of the day, all activists work for free in general, because that's called altruism (has ISM knee-jerk reaction), but those who get paid by TZM - disrespect it's own principles sadly. Especially those paying them. I remember Peter Joseph use to saying something like "once money touches something, it turns into shit." It's a difficult line to walk.
"The Zeitgeist Movement is manipulative in that it cons (mostly young) people into becoming mouthpieces for the Venus Project by disguising itself as a humanitarian movement. Zeitgeist members are convinced they are making a difference when all they are doing is learning how to be good marketers, just like Peter Joseph."
I feel like that actually.
This is false empowerment and a very manipulative practice. If a member wishes to take real actions based on the ideology of the Venus Project, they are encouraged go and start their own movement somewhere else."
That's where independent projects come in such as RBOSE, RBEF and so on. I get told by others in independent project to not call it "splinter groups" because it has a bad sound to it and I understand. The more those words are used, then we're more likely are going to spend our time fighting with each other when we should just simply move on and actually do something. But when
misrepresentations come in to play, defense is understood.
"Peter Joseph, Roxanne Meadows, and Jacque Fresco believe that their actions are justified. Their self-righteousness blinds them to the fact that they are being manipulative in their actions. What they are really doing is making Zeitgeist members impotent, keeping them entangled in an endless web of rhetoric and incapable of real action."
Yeah, a lot of them are going to feel trapped and wait at foot for them to say what the next move should be - that I don't like. If people can take action right away, then that shouldn't be stopped and that person should have their compassion flowing oppose to inner-politics making that same compassion die. I certainly see more independent projects forming after being as patient with TZM and TVP they try to be.
---------
"Yeah they entice them into the idea that the movement is all about not working in the future, yet ironically these people are all being used as free labour now, and working more now than they probably did!"
If Peter Joseph does more praising people for their online efforts oppose to what they do openly in public to contribute offline, then you're going to keep seeing more online promotion for sure.
"what annoys me more than anything is that the members of the movement are blind to all of these things. they really do believe that by advertising someone elses product/ideas they are somehow making the world a better place. i just dont even know what to say, its too depressing really."
Well, if most people are in their 20′s as I hear the usual demographic people say that TZM is, then yeah - that's what they are going to think. But with independent projects, we can lead by example therefore having more serious folks join into actually doing oppose to just trying to fit in with the movement online.
"The scariest part is that it is effective, hundreds of new members [signing up for the newsletters] are sucked into the movements campaign weekly , even daily, and the campaign to advertise the venus project as the solution continues to grow."
Those subscribing are pretty much subscribing to see what's up - the majority of them I would say. Not as full-fledge members, if that was the case - then we would have saw a lot of progress by now.
"If they were advertising alternative options that are going down the same path, it would be much less worrying."
Promoting other alternatives are usually discouraged, you can't deviate from what TZM and TVP says now.
"But there is no practice of giving alternatives a chance in their advertising campaign [it is all about the venus project], and alternatives are not respected as equally important. For all others are considered as a group stealing someones trademarked idea."
Well, when TZM claims to be the activist arm for one project, you can start to see people being closed minded to other stuff. I agree. So branching seems naturally inevitable.
"Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows have been financially supporting this project through outside jobs for 35 years. We are now beginning to get donations and we deeply appreciate your contributions in this way. Unfortunately we still live in a monetary system and there is no other way we can print the books, produce our models and make our videos. Donations are used to help promote the direction of Future By Design, the nonprofit sector of The Venus Project.
=============
"This is taken right off their webpage, under what you can do/get involved."
Yeah.
"Basicaly on that page its just advertising and promotion for their project, which is simply making books to sell, models to animate with, and videos to sell with their models animated in.
[sarcasm]
Sounds like a worthy project to fund, count me in, I would much rather finance this than say...pay for people to survive living the week out.
[end sarcasm]"
Guilt-inducing does a great deal. People already know the world needs saving.
BranManFloMore said this on April 28, 2010 at 6:26 am | Reply

"The scariest part is that it is effective, hundreds of new members [signing up for the newsletters] are sucked into the movements campaign weekly , even daily, and the campaign to advertise the venus project as the solution continues to grow."
Those subscribing are pretty much subscribing to see what's up - the majority of them I would say. Not as full-fledge members, if that was the case - then we would have saw a lot of progress by now."
the simple way to beat them then is to show up on google, and kind of virally inform the public.
prometheuspan said this on April 28, 2010 at 5:39 pm | Reply

I just noticed that those quotes on the main website are gone:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla
And all Chapter websites with the same template style, but still has the Albert Pine quote in his ZDAY website:
http://zday2010.org/templates/zday2010_splashpage/images/FIRST_PAGE/quote.jpg
And the same quote is in his signature on his FORUM account:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=60&id=246777&limit=10&limitstart=50#247067
I guess he likes throwing mix signals.
"the simple way to beat them then is to show up on google, and kind of virally inform the public."
I'm all for defending yourself when baseless accusations are thrown at you and that person or group trying to clear it up by dismissing the misrepresentation(s), but I don't look at this whole thing as competition because I'm focused on being project-orientated and so should everyone else. Are projects will get us attention alone.
We don't have to "beat them", they are hurting themselves already.
BranManFloMore said this on April 28, 2010 at 6:57 pm | Reply

[...] The art of Advertising within The zeitgeist movement [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:09 pm | Reply

[...] The art of Advertising within The zeitgeist movement [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:11 pm | Reply

Hello,
This blog was brought to my attention and I wanted to leave a comment to clarify my feelings about this matter. I am the "Man" aka Animus on the Zeitgeist Movement forums who was engaging in this discussion with the moderator.
The original thread can be found here and my comments start on page 2.
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=3&id=215203&limit=10&limitstart=10#215603
My previous experience dealing with an organizations Tax Documents was from my University, not from seeing Future by Designs tax documents located somewhere else. Seeing as my University deals with millions upon millions of dollars it was very complex documents and money was lumped into large categories that gave little information as to how that money was actually being spent. Having looked at Future by Designs tax documents I found them very easy to understand and this is why I now feel that TVP has good transparency. As you mentioned above the only suggestion I have for TVP is to provide a link to that tax information on their website so others can more easily see that they are a responsible transparent organization.
Dustin VanDeBerg said this on January 9, 2010 at 12:10 am | Reply

Hi there, sorry to quote you, I tried to maintain anonymity, but I am happy you have come here to clarify your view.
anticultist said this on January 9, 2010 at 1:05 am | Reply

Transparency is an issue I believe would benefit any organisation, for example Network of European Technocrats do a better job, but still suffer from not doing a good job, whilst these folks manage a better job:
http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/sos-childrens-charity/every-penny-counts
I'd still like to see a breakdown of say wages, names of employees, and other smaller details. (Even down to, say supplier of paper.)
Such information can also be useful (What if your a paper supplier and can do them a better deal! why in my last job I was able to in a day find a better supplier that gave more quality stuff, for less cost, just because I knew how much it cost after a bit of digging around.)
Its a shame its like trying to get blood out of a stone most of the time when it comes to offering up suggestions and ideas to improve things. (Which is why so many people just don't bother!)
Nanos said this on January 9, 2010 at 2:46 am | Reply

I have recently been doing some uni coursework on a module called 'understanding financial reports' which entailed pouring over the 220 page adidas group annual report from 2008. so i can certainly vouch for how hard it really is to get down to specific details when you really need them.
luckily though the widespread acceptance of IFRS (international financial reporting standards) is leading to greater transparency all the time as new regulations are put in place on what details companies are required to produce. but even with all of these rules and checks there are still far too many opportunities for companies simply choose what to say and what not to say. paticularly when it comes to the fine details.
but at the very least these documents should be easily accessible for all to see. for example if you look up the website of any large limited liability company you can think of and then go to the corporate or investment section of their site, you should easily find all financial reports available to view and download going back for many years. the venus project would benefit from following this trend. if adidas and thorntons and who ever else can do it, then why cant a non profit organisation who supposedly has nothing to hide?
really its just bad business sense not to make this information easily accessible for anyone who wants to see it. if the venus project doesnt do something about this, their credibility will continue to go down hill in my opinion.
logan86 said this on January 9, 2010 at 4:23 am | Reply
ok an email regarding this issue has been sent to Roxanne Meadows. meadows@thevenusproject.com , she replied to other emails I have sent in the past to this email address, so if this one is not replied to that says something clear to me.
Whether she decides to deal with the issue or ignore it will be very telling about their willingness for transparency, and their respect for people who have issues with their business tactics.
Here is the original email, anyone saying you should contact the venus project directly about this issue now has evidence to show it has been attempted.
Hello Roxanne
As you may be aware there are discussions about the issue of transparency of your two companies.
Your current website holds a page where donations and store are held, and it is unclear which section of this goes to the 501c non profit company, and which section goes to the profit arm of the company.
Since you have volunteers working for free marketing your products via the zeitgeist movement, promoting the videos, merchandise and books, and you are also getting income from lectures and tours.
It seems advantageous for you to clear this matter up by stating on your website donations & sales goto which area of each company.
As people are becoming aware that you have Venus project inc/global cybervisions [ http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_hxlxws ]& future by design npo [ stated on your store page ], I think it might be to your benefit to have a transparency page showing what the incomes from both sections are being used for as well. Perhaps by adding all your documents of annual income and spending.
This information is very hard to come by without detailed searches, and is causing many issues among people, because they are unsure what their money and purchases is going to and what you are doing with it.
Hopefully you will see it as a bit of friendly advice to clear the matters up, as this will be beneficial to any doubts people have about your companies, and will perhaps give people advertising your materials information to show you are acting honorably.
I look forward to your reply and any further information you can add to these suggestions.
Lets see if we get any kind of remedy and rational response to clear this matter up, or any further information that clears some of the information presented.
anticultist said this on February 2, 2010 at 6:54 pm | Reply

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/the-venus-project-is-not-just-non-profit/#comment-162
Read the replies and the ongoing emails in the link above.
anticultist said this on February 4, 2010 at 7:08 pm | Reply

There is no excuse for The Venus Project, Inc. not being prominently displayed, nor is there an excuse for them blurring their non-profit and for-profit sectors on their website. They have thousands of kids from around the world helping them sell their shit. The least they can do is have honest business practices.
The money is going into making more models and keeping their home...and this is supposed to somehow help the world move towards a Resource Based Economy? I want to save the polar bears, so I am going to sit at home and sew some stuffed animals to raise awareness. Can I have some money?
So the Venus Project is into selling propaganda materials to nerdy do-gooders. Nothing wrong with that, just don't disguise it with some phoney activist movement. This is fraudulent.
michi0713 said this on February 5, 2010 at 2:52 am | Reply

[...] Issues of Transparency in Zeitgeist & Venus Project [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:10 pm | Reply

[...] Issues of Transparency in Zeitgeist & Venus Project [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:11 pm | Reply

I guess the venus project will be utilising this capitalist method of build, by using division of labour for machines.
So even though they claim to be a seperate system of function, and abhor the current methodology, it is quite ironic that the core process of manufacture and delivery to their society will be based upon this idea.
Unless they have invented another method of build and design out of thin air ?
oh no wait "take the best and get rid of the useless !, then trademark it as your own evolutionary concept"
anticultist said this on January 9, 2010 at 5:03 pm | Reply

Division of labor is one of the reasons I do not believe a full RBE will be possible. If we could change the way we think to be a monetary system with RBE tendencies it would give us the leeway to eliminate jobs and share true information.
Stonegoal said this on February 13, 2010 at 8:22 pm | Reply

Organizations such as the WTO are currently trying to increase specialization through free trade and the elimination of protectionism.
In an ideal world there would be no trade barriers and no borders - allowing the free flow of capital, labour and exports to where they are most efficiently used. This is the most efficient form of specialization there can be and I think you will agree that it is in line with what TZM is aiming for (no nations no borders no restriction of resources - I agree though, I have not heard any concrete economic theory discussed on the forums or in the lectures - but I do see the potential to refine the proposed model into something more sound).
Nations that practise free trade are considerably more advanced than autarkies (self-sufficient economies). To see concrete proof of this look at David Ricardo's work on comparative advantages.
Developing nations are less inclined to liberalize trade because this causes them to have an economic dependency on other nations - countries like the US have strong bargaining power against them.
Free trade can also destabilize economies and inhibit the growth of domestic firms and so this makes free trade less feasible for developing nations.
The main reason there is still protectionism is because nations compete - if country A is importing the majority of its goods from country B then B will become a wealthy and developed nation whilst A will be continually dependant on B. Therefore the only solution is to create trade barriers such as taxation to make domestic consumers buy from domestic rather than foreign firms. Regardless of how inefficient this is, it benefits country A more to do so (TZM ties in nicely here as it goes against competition).
DRS said this on April 19, 2010 at 9:30 pm | Reply

Seeing how many people influenced Jacque Fresco to come up with the RBE model, it was inevitable that people were going to come up with an alternative system. Even people in the Zeitgeist Movement realized the inevitability - I'm referring to the older folks. There are many more alternatives out there that people are working on and if they (TZM/TVP) force to shove their statistics down people's throats and say work on the RBE idea, then there will be resistance from that alone. No doubt about it. There will always be an abstract competition going on because of this very fact. So it's best to encourage sportsmanship if you will so that we can leave room for collaboration. Collaboration with the real activists left in the Zeitgeist Movement of course. They say they (Jacque Fresco & Roxanne Meadows) are against competition but try to portray themselves as the only alternative left which is misleading in itself. If there was no competition though, people would be passive and I find that more alarming personally if that happened.
Alternatives:

And yes, no single person can create a pencil:

Division of labor takes place to do this and no matter what race, religion, gender you are - people are today still working together to make products through division of labor. I know, it's a paradox but I think RBE would work similar too. If products were not being created at all, then you know right there something is very wrong. A question mark appears above people's heads when they say that the invisible hand will always take care of things or "magic" helps keep the pricing system in balance through how many products are needed to produce. But that's not really "magic", it's math. Math presented to people in an easy way. Generalizations, RBE throws some too for sure but I think they are thrown at people to make them want to read into a Resource Based Economy and Capitalism more. If it was a summary and people were forced to accept it, then I would see the problem.
As Peter Joseph says, we delegate our math to a computer - so why not the whole system? So RBE sounds plausible there, but if we delegate everything to a computer, the question becomes - will we still be smart or smarter in math as we are now? A big thing to worry about is, will people become lazy too? This is a common question. But since everything would be automated, I'm not hinting there will be no schools anymore.
But division in itself would seem natural at this point, as long as their was room for collaboration without intimidation - we would be fine. But I don't even see that happening. With so much ignorance and arrogance coming from the Zeitgeist Movement, people are going to feel repelled from them easily.
Jacque Fresco says if you spent time with yourself as a clone, then you wouldn't want to be with yourself that long which makes me worry about an RBE society. If everyone is alike in every way, then social life can be questionable. The whole conformity thing comes up.
But to me I can see the difference between a generalist and a specialist. If a generalist was told to find another job or task depending if this was a monetary system or a RBE system, then the generalist would not have such an emotional attachment and would probably be anxious to find out what to do next. But with the specialist, it would be the opposite. That specialist would have to find what's available and after that, learn about that occupation and then apply themselves but by then - there would be more availability in a different occupation most likely and less availability for the occupation he or she was learning about. Being a specialist can stink when everything is at a constant change when it comes to people retiring, being fired, people quitting and so on.
BranManFloMore said this on June 5, 2010 at 1:36 pm | Reply

I don't have much to say here, but I will say, generalist methods are fine in a living life everyday routine, as in my car needs a new fanbelt [i can replace that], my boiler has broken [replace the thermocouple] etc...
But specialist problems such as design and fine tuning arent exactly generalist.
How the venus project aims to solve this is vague
"everyone will have the free time to be educated in everything ?"
Seems almost like a diversional answer really.
anticultist said this on January 9, 2010 at 4:51 am | Reply

this is a very good point anticultist. generalism is fine in daily life. i hadn't thought about it like that before. generalisation is good for getting stuff done in ones own personal sphere such as at home.
but for specialist tasks the answers are just diversions. almost deliberate diversions. yet another example of the venus project prefering to present an aire that it knows best rather than admit any error in its logic.
another area where this is almost ironicly true is architecture. if a computer designed your house, would it meet your needs, probably. would you enjoy living in it, thats another matter.
but i suppose in the venus project world someone with a passing interest in design could just draw a cool picture of a house and solve all your problems
logan86 said this on January 9, 2010 at 5:03 am | Reply

From what I saw of design methods in frescos videos, future by design etc...It seemed to me all his homes were of the same materials, they all looked white and shiny with round areas, or looked like apartments in buildings.
Its not that his designs arent attractive, in fact like someone said on another blog "they look like theyre right out of thunderbirds", but they all look like they utilise his same idea of plastic extrusion method.
This might be a simplistic approach of molding, but I myself think they all look too minimalistic and sterile, and who wants to live in the same materials?
Let alone do those materials and designs function through out the world over ?
Do they come under international building requirements and regulations ?
Again a generalist design and ideology, in an otherwise complicated subject area.
But thats a slight digression from the original post , sorry.
anticultist said this on January 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm | Reply

keep up the great work i love your blog
:D
hurr durr said this on January 15, 2010 at 7:46 pm | Reply

thanks for passing through hurr durr ;)
Try not to take it all to heart, you and I both know you never said that above, and i dont want to make you look like an idiot by approving your spewings.
Now trot along to the forum like a good z'ombie
anticultist said this on January 15, 2010 at 8:01 pm | Reply

Malcolm Gladwell claims that it takes about 10,000 hours of practice in a particular task to become proficient at it, though most aircraft pilots don't accumulate that many flight hours in their entire careers and seem to do just fine far short of that figure.
Still, it does show the need for specialists with a lot of experience in the things which matter. You wouldn't want a generalist to perform your root canal, for example.
Mark Plus said this on April 8, 2010 at 7:36 pm | Reply

I think generalists will be somewhat specialists. For an example, a generalist can be well informed in many areas but not all areas. All you have to do is look at ProMeTheUsPan, if he's not a generalist, then I don't know what type of person is:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/the-psychological-profile-of-a-conspiracy-theorist/#comment-748
People that speed learn can get multiple online degrees, especially if we were living in a non-monetary system right now. No more worrying about bills, right?
Sadly, I see a trend happening that the intelligent people that are true generalists are being forced out due to those that have questionable IQs. I doubt TZM has any true generalist or specialists in that regard.
I can see generalists and specialists working together in the future the same way we see the division of labor now. They would have to work together still because everyone will still have a weakness regardless how many areas you are an expert in, that's being realistic. In any alternative system from the monetary system, this type of environment with advancing technology to help us can make it look plausible. But these so-called specialists (generalist experts in many fields) would be in the interdisciplinary teams without a doubt. I think those two words should be redefined though after reading this blog. The funny thing is that, who would want to be apart of an interdisciplinary team that takes the anti-credential position to begin with? This will make TZM & TVP look like a joke by itself. So I see why specialists are defended here.
Before taking any position, I'm sure people will ask those who want to join volunteering in something what they are truly good at and beg for their honesty to do so. RBEF runs that way as a matter fact on their forums, this is what I call being organized.
Now, if people become inactive- then they should be removed or suggested to do something else because sometimes, we think we are good at something but find out we are better at something else. I have this same experience. But that person will remain generalist because that person will still share/have the experience in the field he or she left therefore later on the future always be willing to be a helping hand. There should be space for rotational positions as well, because a person can easily get bored doing the same type of job therefore contributing to society in a physical sense more fulfilling. To determine if a person is qualified to begin, I'm sure things would work similar, people would go to school but have the freedom to decide how and when they want to go to school rather it be at home during the day or at school at night. Either or. We don't have that freedom now.
If a machine went down, then I'm sure there would be some type of redundancy built in to the system that temporarily goes down. That's a general answer, but the specialist would step in to explain how. But I know, it scares me when they say "no one does" when the question is asked about who makes the decisions.
Speaking of the engine sounding at all, I think it's important that it has some sound. Think about it, if vehicles had no sound, how would you know a car is about to run you over during the day? Should human beings where some type of magnets on their clothes so that the vehicles can repel them from the person? I've been in this type of situation before when it came to helping people move furniture. It's something to think about. We still should be considerate regarding to noise pollution though.
But, as things get more automated and information is more easily accessible, then the room for a generalist will grow and it won't be stopped unless technology becomes crippled. But if a person chooses to be a specialist and only be an expert in one thing and one thing only, I don't think that should be frowned upon or looked at as "socially offensive". That should be respected as super dedication. We would still need specialists for sure during an alternative transition if automation isn't up to par. I don't think generalists will be pretenders, I think generalists will most likely show more genuine interest into learning something else then a specialist would in another field. But I don't a generalist doing art one day and all of the sudden want to jump into being a dentist, but if that's the case, I'm sure that person will still have to take years of classes to be certified.
As long as we don't have people calling each other doctor in the field of music and film, I think we'll be fine. Maybe that's where the horror starts to kick in. In the future, we should not have honorary doctorates, it would just cause confusion later on when it comes to researching on history in general and debates in the future will fall into semantic traps. If my response seems like a diversion, please don't take it that way.
BranManFloMore said this on June 13, 2010 at 10:05 pm | Reply

regarding ZEITGEIST999 aka melpuzon from washington zm chapter:
"OMG Man, can you please for once stop with all the opinions? When will you learn to think critically instead always criticizing? You talk about analysis, but I see nothing analytic about your blovations. Everything you state is conjecture and assumtions. No wonder you don't understand the movement and what it's about."
This poor deluded soul responded to this post under the assumption I did not understand, funny really isn't it, it's exactly what I have said all along. They assume because I think the movement is bunk, that I have not understood it, or read the information, or just skimmed. Well in fact it shows this person has skimmed this blog, poor deluded soul
"I for one question everything in the movement. I also listen with an open mind. If someone slighted you in the movement, then you must learn to be mature and discuss these things with that person."
Seriously ? Well get to work and use your open mind in listening to my experience in your movement, and please dont assume someone slighted me.
I am far more together than to worry about such nonsense, what does worry me though is you think that is why I made this blog, rather than my indifference to the materials content or rather lack of.
"If you can empirically prove that the project will not work, then do so. But, I would like to thank you. Because of your blog, I have been able to reduce your arguments to drivvle and show each point you make to be a fallacy. I would recommend a course in critical analysis before you continue to embarrass yourself any further. I don't want you to be humiliated. I prefer you be educated for it is difficult to discuss anything with people who use circular arguments to get their point across."
And how is that for egotistical drivel ?
Like I said these guys are head and shoulders above most people when it comes to pomposity and arrogance. Go figure.
The same user made more posts elsewhere with more venus project promotional material and insubstantial bunk, and opinions about authors not knowing things and other egotistical blubber. Its not that important really and only pollutes the blog, they have hundreds of other websites they're bombarding with the same shit, so I will just let the readers feel safe in the knowledge its not going to happen here.
anticultist said this on January 14, 2010 at 5:57 pm | Reply

Again, I ask for your solutions so I may compare them to the project. If it is the people you have a problem with, I can understand that personalities can conflict and egos will rear their ugly heads. We are in the current system and maturity will come with time, education and experience. Your descriptions are colorful and your prose eloquent. However, we still come back to this circular argument of what is your solution? Why won't you answer that question. Your energies are focus on the anger you feel about the movement and the project, but I challenge you to focus your energies on the solution, unless debunking is what you're all about. Seems to me to be counter-productive. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Mel said this on January 14, 2010 at 7:22 pm | Reply

I will answer you here, and this is all, I will continue no longer with a debate on what I have as a solution.
As a matter of fact I find it rather humbling to admit I do not have one, but that does not mean that any other solution presently offered by any one else, and this includes Jacque Fresco's, is actually possible.
That would ultimately be an unscientific conclusion, rather I see that there are numerous ideologies and systems that currently exist in public domain that could be utilised together to make matters better.
There is no single method currently in existance that could be stated as perfect for everyone, or for that matter a perfect solution to every problem in the world.
Some ideas come close to helping alot of people, but others are simply preferential to a set class of individuals.
To categorically state some of the things Jacque Fresco has said and believe them without any question, or to promote them when there is no substantial evidence, is not using the scientific method whatsoever.
It is in fact a promotional tactic at spreading an opinion to the masses, in hope they will see it as an all encompassing solution with little regard to its factual integrity.
That is all I have to say about it.
anticultist said this on January 14, 2010 at 7:33 pm | Reply

Here is why Zeitgeist is a pathetic and useless organization.
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=272&id=218190
The people in Haiti are in dire need of the necessities right now. They need emergency medical care. They need help with their dead. They need food and clean water.
Instead of organizing a drive, encouraging members to donate to the cause, or even posting ways in which people can help, they want to exploit the devastation for their own agenda. It is pretty sad that they are even discussing building a Venus Project in Haiti in their time of need. They are fully aware that this is not even possible, but proceed to engage in pointless babble nonetheless.
Hey Zeitgeist! Pull your heads out of your asses and help the Haitians!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34835478/ns/world_news-americas/
P.S. Before you dumb Zeitgeist members rush in to say, "What have you done?" I will tell you that yes I did donate to the cause.
gillian said this on January 14, 2010 at 9:56 pm | Reply

The following is an opening sentence from a members post in a thread about charitable aid and the movements direction:
"I like the idea of helping less fortunate countries in order to help our reputation, but lets stay in keeping with our ideals to support advanced technology for the solving of problems. This will make a supporting statement for movement in addition to gaining points for humantarianism."
The motivations here are simply scary !
Brownie points and public image are far more important than being committed to actually helping people, this is completely removed from the concept of humanitarianism
They are committed to pushing an ideology and a public image as their motivation to help folk.
Also in that thread you linked above gillian, it is clear that they are out to promote a public image and an ideology first.
Some members get that they need to be a humanitarian movement, but on the whole the motivations they have are disheartening.
anticultist said this on January 15, 2010 at 8:41 pm | Reply

Mel aka mel puzon aka zeitgeist999 from the Washington zm chapter said this on January 14, 2010 at 10:11pm:

"donate? Congratulations! Donate what? Money? Are you sure it will get there? Laughable."
You see what kind of twisted logic the ZM people have, they assume that the money just dissapears into someones pocket without a bit of evidence.
They are quick to discuss the scientific method should you say something remotely against their movement, but hey I guess this makes sense when your logic is all twisted beyond recognition.
If being attached to a movement makes me lose all hope in humanity, and mistrust people trying their hardest to save human lives, then I would abandon that movement in an instant.
Shame on these guys, they hate money and the system so much they blame every other human being on the planet for its discrepencies.
The discrepencies they themselves blame on the elitists, they are attributing to the working class people like you or I trying to just help out.
All these charities and organisations she just wiped out with a crass uneducated sentence, making out she knows what they do with your money.
What about the venus project ? they take donations too, what are they doing with your money ?
anticultist said this on January 14, 2010 at 10:50 pm | Reply

Your pontificating about this movement and it's members really turns my stomach - I confess I haven't looked very hard but I have seen you are against the Zeitgeist Movement - so what are you for?
[anticultist]
Michael i read your post and i feel you simply adressed me personally through out it rather than the information presented [so its not going on here], allow me to clear a few things up for you and you can be on your way.
Firstly, this place is not about me, its about this thing they call a movement which I regularly frequent even to this day.
Whether you like what I say is of no concern to me, and that is something you will have to deal with, if you want happy reports about how great it is just head on over to their forum.
Regarding what I am into, well lets just say I have been into action, awareness spreading and living like a solid human a lot longer than you or others may believe.
While you have not looked into the movement, you freely admit this, I have looked deep into it and I have encountered a lot of problems they dont address and will not address, if you think this is just my personal vendetta against a few people you are greatly mistaken.
This movement is simply turning into a cult as we speak, not only in an ideological sense, but one of personality.
I don't care much for you saying I am against people trying to change things, because I think you will find I am not.
In fact the zeitgeist movement is against human beings efforts to do things now in their own ranks; charities, donations, aid, are just too incomprehensible for them, they themselves would rather pontificate about bull shit in the future.
So no I will not feel sorry for your feelings because I have slighted the movement, this place is a storage vessel for the views unwanted on their forum, like it or leave it. [ end anticultist]
Michael said this on January 15, 2010 at 2:07 pm | Reply

The fact that you remove people's comments and leave out the structured arguments I made, leads me to believe that your conclusion is:
'The Zeitgeist movement and everyone in it, are bent on either world domination or a purely destructive persuit for mankind, and no empirical or rational evidence that says otherwise, no other empirical, obvious and real threat to human existence, is in anyway more threatening than this movement or 'cult' which encourages people do do their own research, to think for themselves and to help each other out.
[anticultist] This is just ridiculous Michael, you're lead down the garden path if you think that. I edit because I want no personal attacks on posters [in the same way it operates on ZM forum, there is a biases for rules to be used for their members, it is exactly the same here], I do not feel I have to approve every comment because it is my blog after all, and I do not need to play by your rules here.
People are doing their own research Michael and most of it you guys simply dislike and do not address, either here, or on your forum [end anticultist]
No. After all, it is not the thousands of years of human culture and conditioning leading the general population to be...easily led, it's simply the voodoo power of Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph, that has enslaved the minds of thousands of people, and only you and your indoctrinated acolytes can save us from.
[anticultist] Grow up man, we are putting another point of view across, if you don't like it, go away, I didn't invite you here anyway[end anticultist]
I am involved in the movement, my comment was referring to your blog, I hadn't looked through it much, because they are a dime a dozen, and all say pretty much the same thing.
[anticultist]This blog is not a dime a dozen, there are hardly any blogs dealing with the facts of the movement, or contain ex members [perhaps only one other I know of]. And we have researched the movement as much and been involved as much as their pro members, you just dont want to read this blog because you are attached and biased and have made your mind up. If you read it you will see 3 ex members here used to be pro VP, now please, if you are going to attack something at least have brains and do some research in it, like we all have your movement [end anticultist]
I am in no doubt my breath is wasted here, I see you only allow comments from your friends scoffing and mocking us. The irony is this is what you create. Them and us - yet you say I should just assume and accept you are a noble activist of some sort - just sort of - take your word for it - well no, I think you're a jaded and misguided individual, you're conceited and self righteous - thinking that everyone who respects and takes on the values of this grass roots movement, are just all idiots - you remind me of a politician, perhaps you should go on question time - the BBC would love you :)
[anticultist] Yes we are mocking your movement because its pitiful. You are barking up a tree that doesn't give a shit as well Michael, I have researched your movement, and I am actually still involved in it today, haha. I read your nonsense daily so please do me a favour, either get a sense of humour, address the materials were presenting, or do one. [end anticultist]
Ultimately I do feel sorry for you. I don't know where you will find comfort. Perhaps it will be in deleting further comments and ignoring logic and reason in favour of sensationalism, propaganda and instead of a scientific and factual, informative article on the movement and venus project, you display, in irony, the most primitive behaviour humans are capable of reminiscent of the salem witch trials.
[anticultist]You feel sorry for me !? Thats funny because I am not the one following a futurist pipeline dream set somewhere in the far off horizons of humanity.
When you guys actually do anything for humanity thats positive, and quit badgering and condescending people on the internet, when you cease to procrastinate and pontificate about some otherworldly technological nonsense, I will let out one humongous cheer and leave you all alone, till then you are all just fish in a barrel [end anticultist]
"So no I will not feel sorry for your feelings because I have slighted the movement, this place is a storage vessel for the views unwanted on their forum, like it or leave it."
It's called Ad Hominem, and while I have made this a personal issue, that's all it can be. There is NOTHING of substance in what you've said. Provide rational, empirical hypothesis that we can discuss and we could go somewhere.

[anticultist] Go read the details of the blogs posts, then when you have something of substance yourself to counter with, I will gladly stop laughing at you, but for now, you Michael are just a big joke, now pedal along[end anticultist]
Michael said this on January 16, 2010 at 11:05 pm | Reply

this is a typical reaction really. it doesnt matter how valid your concerns are, there is just no way of getting through to the zeitgeist members. and its verging on hypocritical as they will always say, 'you need to learn to think critically.' but they themselves refuse to think critically or analyse their own movement.
whenever there is an unanswered question the response is either to attack or assign the topic to the mysterious 'transition period' bin. an ever growing cache of unanswered questions that can be safely ignored as irrelevant.
the problem is though that the number of 'transition period' or 'irrelevant' issues is far greater than the number of solutions that the venus project offers. so once again it just points to the fact that the venus project or the zeitgeist movement offer very little of actual substance.
and whenever they are questioned they like to say things like 'so what are your solutions' but the fact is im not pretending to offer one. im not the one making the claims so im under no obligation to both point out a problem with the movement, and then outline specifically what they could do to solve it!
to get slightly back to one of the points made by anticultist in his post, i can also see this issue of having not enough unity within the movements members and their goals. if this is supposed to be a worldwide movement, then it needs to appeal to people of many different cultures and backgrounds. and then once it has appealed to them and brought in a new member, it needs to offer something to keep them there. at the moment it can attract some members, but then it cant offer them enough to really make them feel like they belong. not everyone in the movement is equal, they are not all on the same level playing field. this is one of the biggest failings of the movement and is simply a symptom of their failed ideologies. if their ideologies were strong, then it would create a strong and solid community. but because their ideologies are weak, they have a weak and fragmented community, that currently is only held together by strong moderation and institutionalised bullying.
so they are all in some level of denial, but i cant explain why. after a while i became so disillusioned with the whole thing that i opened my eyes and saw the whole structure for what it is. but the fanatical members just dont seem to want to do this for some reason.
logan86 said this on January 17, 2010 at 3:23 am | Reply

The Zeitgeist cultists always say the same thing they are programed to say. "Well how are you going to solve the world's problems" As if just because no one has the answers to all life's problems, they are moraly superior and saving the world with their online movement that doesn't do anything but make youtube videos.
anon said this on February 11, 2010 at 8:00 am | Reply

anon I am marc8806 from the zeitgiest movement website, I posted a refute to http://ignoranceisfutile.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/zeitgeist-movement-most-hardcore-nwo-propaganda-ever/
You posted "peace". Anyhow, I was wondering if you are the member called prometheusspan? I think your observations shouldn't be disregarded. I am a member there and I am somewhat disappointed with the direction of the members and would like to have a fellow member that can actually challenge some of the points of the organization, for it isn't perfect and should be open for evolution. Thanks. Marc8806
Marc said this on February 21, 2010 at 7:18 pm | Reply

Hello Marc, no prometheuspan is a member of the RBEF forum these days. Anon is a seperate person.
And I am a seperate entity not affiliated with any group, I used to be a member of the ZM though.
I am also very dissapointd in the movement like you, and have made this blog for voicing these views.
Thanks for reading Marc.
anticultist said this on February 21, 2010 at 8:40 pm | Reply

Actually I agree with your post that they should have scientists and engineers to answer questions regarding scientific methods directed to them, but perhaps the reason the movement wants to increase the quantity of members in the first place is to attract these group of intelligent people?
I mean, people are crowd-followers. Having supporters in a number more than Michael Jackson's fans surely could help. I'm all in for the RBE, but I'm no scientist or engineer for that matter, and I don't expect anyone to listen to me, but what I can do to help is to spread the awareness of the problems, and telling everyone why we need more supports, and why it's important.
I've read your posts and although I agree that people should not blindly follow TZM or TVP, I think it's a matter of our perception. We should know that when we say that 'people should not blindly follow', we are actually describing people that have at least a decent level of intelligence of their own, but sadly, the truth is there is a lot of people who are just not bright enough to form their own thinkings or studies rather than just follow whatever the movement says, to the extent of worshiping it.
As a conclusion, I think we should not give up educating people around us about the RBE and the need for a social transformation, but we can refer less to the TVP or TZM. Those organizations are actually formed to act as a 'base' for anyone who wants not just only to support the RBE, but a 'base' where they can feel they 'belong'. I think really objective people do not need 'a sense like belonging' much like most people do, and I think that by creating this blog and voicing your opinions about negativity that exists within TVP and TZM, but still supporting the idea for a better world, such as the RBE, you are very much an objective person.
I really think that we will need a discussion website that caters specifically for real life scientists, engineers and students of scientific methods. Perhaps there is already active forums that cater for these groups of people where we can try to discuss the validity and possibility of an RBE. What do you think?
Zeitgeist Lah! said this on April 18, 2010 at 9:57 am | Reply

I disagree about mass numbers, having more numbers does not automatically equate to anything of substance, look at christians. There are millions of them and they couldnt agree on anything to save their own souls.
Zeitgeist needs to get its ass into gear, because as it stands its already being scrutinsed as a poor movement doing nothing but talk.
If it had a few thousand scientists and engineers working on its claims it would be hella different, and it wouldnt need millions of fans to do this.
anticultist said this on April 18, 2010 at 10:25 am | Reply

That's what I thought too. We are in desperate need for scientists, engineers and professionals of relevant fields but it seems that this world itself is simply not moving in that direction seeing that fund managers generate more income than scientists and engineers. It's also not helping at all with the arrays of advertisements and media today that seem to only portray luxuries and things that we don't actually 'need'.
I'm an Asian and in my culture, children are discouraged to have jobs like scientists as ambitions, instead it's greatly encouraged to aim for jobs related to money-making, such as businessmen and managers.
Sorry to rant about this out of the topic, but it seems to me that there won't be 'relevant' people that care enough of RBE to make it a reality any sooner and perhaps not in my lifetime. Unless a multi-billionaire buys into the idea and actually do something about it with his 'wealth' (like hiring scientists and engineers, making global-scale ads, getting celebrities to support), I don't think RBE is going to happen.
Zeitgeist Lah! said this on April 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm | Reply

I think the problem lies in these few reasons:
1: Jacque & Roxanne appear unable to let the work be taken on/ improvised/adapted and evolved from any outside interests without their say. See ex 1970′s member speaks out & Earth 2 dispute for recent evidence that Jacque is unable to let his pet project grow. Also see how they have threatened other groups with faux legal action who are heading in the same direction as them, they refuse to cooperate with any other people who dont follow their goals word for word.
2: Their claims are somewhat anecdotal and speculative without any academic backing or research, the fact they also claim academia and credentials are useless further alienates any credible workforces.
3: Their inability to accept that spreading awareness of their own brand of fantasy cities is simply nothing but PR for themselves and not the RBE concept. They fail to see that changing the outcome goals is important, like we said mass general numbers mean shit without any expertise backing them up.
4: They have no transition plan in place between now and the city, we cant just jump from the present to the future without a functional plan of action available.
There are so numerous problems with them I can not even be bothered to take the time to list everyone of them here in one post. I think anyone who has researched them and hung around there long enough will of noticed some serious problems.
The general consensus in the main dissenting voices these days is that TVP don't intend on building anything and are simply utilising their current popularity as a means of turning over an income. The belief is TVP & TZM will fade into oblivion and if the RBE ever does get off the ground [unlikely right now] it wont be down to anything TVP ever did or do.
anticultist said this on April 18, 2010 at 12:27 pm | Reply

With attitudes like that I don't think they'll be going anywhere. I guess I'll post less about TVP and TZM in my blog and more on scientific researches related to the possibility of an RBE.
Zeitgeist Lah! said this on April 18, 2010 at 12:39 pm | Reply

The Zeitgeist Movement tenets originally presented meant a lot me, but when you see them take a dump on their own principles - that's when you know it's time to go and work with other serious organizations. That's if TZM didn't make you apathetic afterwards. I don't know why everyone in the Zeitgeist Movement acts as if they are the only ones doing anything for humanity. It still puzzles me.
And for their numbers, I don't think people will take them automatically seriously for that either, if anything - people will look at them as collectivism. Like you said AntiCultist, they value quantity more than quality. Here's an interesting video:

I thought you made a good point about Christians too, didn't Zeitgeist: Addendum say that there were over 34,000 sub groups of Christianity?:
"Religious belief has caused more fragmentation and conflict than any other ideology...Christianity alone has 34,000 different sub groups ( Source: World Christian Encyclopedia)"
Yup, I was right:
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript_add.htm
That right there should be proof that branching in different organizations is natural rather it's religious or/and altruistic.
Anon:
"The Zeitgeist cultists always say the same thing they are programed to say. "Well how are you going to solve the world's problems" As if just because no one has the answers to all life's problems, they are moraly superior and saving the world with their online movement that doesn't do anything but make youtube videos."
Are you Anon4AllOfUs? That would be funny if you are. It would be funnier if it was ProMeTheUsPan. He alone puts out so much information so fast, it's unbelievable.
Back on topic - I agree, there's going to have to be at least thousands of inventors/scientists/technicians to actually get to an RBE realistically started in a country that would welcome an alternative. It does seem unrealistic as Zeitgeist Lah! says, because of scientists today getting paid less than those who do nothing for society at all. Then you can see where the TZM passion comes from. But if such a coalition existed, it would be to test alternatives. All alternatives, not just RBE as the only alternative as TZM tries to present to the public. The emotional attachment needs to be let go, because if TZM was to get a test city started and it failed - then we should be able to go back to the drawing board oppose to shoving RBE down people's throats.
Then they try to throw the guilt trip on you and ask "what are your solutions" as if they know we are about to go to their question empty-handed. That mindset alone shows how competitive they are, but yet they are suppose to be about cooperation. I know, more hypocrisy. And they want to change the world with their distorted value system. Now that's laughable. But yeah... I guess they don't look at the other links you provided on your webpage and see how much you're helping with SocialVibe. But TZM thinks you're doing nothing obviously. You're so evil [sarcasm].
I just hope an idea like RBE doesn't go down the drain because of TZM being such an embarrassment to the world.
AntiCultist:
"If that wasnt bad enough you have this air of superiority within them, if you go in pretending to be new and ask them questions, or if you are truly new for that matter then you are told to read and learn, and that you don't understand enough. Little do these corrective members know that they are/may be talking to a member who has studied everything they have, and has been in the group longer than they have."
Them doing that gets on my nerves heavily. It goes to show that they are hypocrites deep down inside and haven't read the material themselves probably. So, it's not even confidence - it's arrogance. Then them dismissing what they can't explain as "irrelevant" is scapegoatism as well, I agree with Logan there.
AntiCultist:
"Turn everything on its arse, start again and then hope that their little plan works, and did I mention its ran by inexperienced people ?"
That alone is scary, you would think they would get qualified people in those positions, but it's a first come/first serve basis. But all of them are unprofessional and I don't even take Peter Joseph seriously anymore. So I don't care much for their rankings. But their future interdisciplinary teams would be more of a terrible nightmare just by looking at MODERATION.
AntiCultist:
"You see with this group it's all about quantity not quality, they would rather get a billion members who blindly follow, rather than a few thousand scientists and engineers able to question, confirm or carry out their plans."
You hit the nail on the head there.
AntiCultist:
"Apparently there is a saturation point when you have enough people you can make this plan happen, but ask them to explain when this is and what the required number of members is, nobody knows."
Very good point. But if they pull out statistics about how many people that are leaving, then collecting will be a forever struggle with them. I doubt they will do that though since they are not honest about their representation. Out of the 400,000 people they say they have, I bet a good junk of them left, just subscribed or banned/unregistered and duplicate accounts are not subtracted. Then they can lie with statistics, more dishonesty.
WE HAVE REACHED 400,000 MEMBERS :):
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=254857
But you know, I think it's good that they don't say they have all the answers, because the UTOPIAN label would be thrown at them even more discrediting them.
And Zeitgeist Lah, it's good to see people from TZM can still be civil when criticism (if you're still TZM) I tried to be the same way and I think the criticizers recognize people like you. So, again - we thank you for comments and your presence. And speaking of blogs. it looks like the Zeitgeist Movement WORDPRESS site went down:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.wordpress.com
I guess it was no match for AntiCultist.
BranManFloMore said this on May 23, 2010 at 9:14 pm | Reply

I love that video its interesting when considering the group/individuals voice and number issue with TZM, then cross related to the idea of social engineeering. To me it drives home the whole issue of the problems they are going to encounter. The individuals voice is outmoded as we speak, but we are led to believe that the individuals voice will be paramount in their society. At present it is a juxtaposition of ideology being presented.
Thanks for this reply bran
anticultist said this on May 23, 2010 at 9:53 pm | Reply

No doubt.
Well yeah, as ES said - the Venus Project has a poor history in voting on decisions and projects. I think we will see the same thing happen with TZM.
It looks like Anonymous made a Part 2 breaking down their take on collectivism, again - very interesting:

And yeah... That Haiti thread was sick.
BranManFloMore said this on May 24, 2010 at 2:51 pm | Reply

haha collecting, collecting.
anticultist said this on May 24, 2010 at 3:44 pm | Reply

"political backgrounds like libertarianism"
Given Fresco's aversion to free markets and capitalism, I don't see how the TVP would appeal to libertarians in general. There are a few movements that might appeal to them that do have some similarities, but those involved generally have a low opinion of Fresco:
http://www.seasteading.org/stay-in-touch/blog/3/2008/05/11/the-venus-project-research-center-sale?page=1
Take special note of the use of "unauthorized" photographs. TVS might appeal to libertarian socialists, but they're are a different kettle of fish.
John Galt said this on June 15, 2010 at 3:23 pm | Reply

Futurist Jacque Fresco's background includes industrial design and social engineering, as well as being a forerunner in the field of Human Factors.

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to adapt its spiritual level to the perception of the least intelligent of those towards whom it intends to direct itself." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
Sidney Martinez said this on January 18, 2010 at 1:49 am | Reply

I'm still wondering how he got to Peter Joseph because i don't think before the first Zeitgeist movie that he supported TVP. I could be wrong though but as i understand i he only joinned them after the fact.
Sidney Martinez said this on January 18, 2010 at 1:51 am | Reply

Peter stated in a radio broadcast he was introduced to Jacques work, and he had never heard of him or it, by the guy who produced this video:
Future by Design, a William Gazecki Film
He then got in touch with him for his second movie .
anticultist said this on January 18, 2010 at 1:54 am | Reply

What does that prove?
[anticultist]It suggests Jacque may be a liar
Larry King (the interviewer) made an error about Fresco having a PHD. so what?
[anticultist]
Dont be ridiculous, if you bothered to look up human factors engineering , which you clearly have not , you will see it is what jacque claims to do. Why would Larry King make up a PhD for Jacque in a similar field of study ?
He just happened to make a mistake? Are you serious ?
Think about it a bit longer and you will see what might have happened, it could have been pre fabricated, ie bullshitted and given to Larry by Jacque/Roxanne or Don.
School yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_factors_engineering
This proves nothing. He was on live TV and maybe didn't want to interupt Larry King. The clip you link also only runs for a very short while and does not show whther he says anything about it later or not.
[anticultist] full clip here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ZeitgeistOradea#p/c/973C488914791300
not a sign of him saying its fabricated, enjoy
Gordon said this on January 18, 2010 at 4:57 am | Reply

In fact, most of the items on Fresco's resume http://www.thevenusproject.com/jacque-fresco/resume
are difficult to verify as there are no dates and locations cited. Places he claimed to have worked for such as Raymond De-Icer Corporation and Rotor Craft Helicopter Company are either no longer in existence or have never existed in the first place. I am not saying that he made it up, but it just can't be verified.
gillian said this on January 18, 2010 at 5:53 am | Reply

funny that is'nt it ?
Someone with so many amazing claims, and hardly anything can be factually proven, with dates, times, places and evidence.
You could be excused for thinking he had made it up.
There is certainly no doubt he has written books, made appearances on videos though.
And his drawings and models are real.
anticultist said this on January 18, 2010 at 5:56 am | Reply

Actually, I have verified that neither of those companies have ever existed. A few months ago I had a long email discussion with Jascque's rite hand lady (i guess) Ms.Meadows. I found that Mr.Fresco claims both the de-icer company, and the rotor craft company were in LA. I called the LA city Tax and Finance board to verify a business license for either of those companies. The woman I spoke with confirmed that there has never been a business license leased for either the De-Icer company, OR the Rotor Craft company, nor has there been similar names in their records. His Resume is FULL of lies.
Joe said this on June 20, 2010 at 6:44 pm | Reply

wow astounding Joe !
I wonder if we could get this evidence officially posted here to make it rock solid ?
Any way you could do that ?
Get it in writing from them officially or something ?
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 8:14 pm

http://www.rotorcraftleasing.net/home.htm
There is only this company which deals with helicopter leasing.
And there is that famous photograph of Jacque Fresco standing on his lawn in front of a helicopter.
I think he leased a helicopter and is making out like he worked for the company, he cant even fly one haha
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 8:24 pm

It seems pretty obvious that Jacque, for some reason or another did not correct Larry when he very easily could have, and probably should have. You can speculate on what the reason is all day, but that doesn't make it anything more than speculation. This one isolated incident is not enough evidence to heavily weigh on Jacque's character to any significant degree. Maybe in a moment of bad judgement he thought 'if I don't correct him, more people will take my ideas seriously', he is passionate about them. Maybe he willfully had Roxanne provide Larry King's people with false information. Maybe he was just nervous to be on television and did a dumb thing.
None of this negates the foundational basis of his work and his ideas. More than anything Jacque is promoting a train of thought based on the fact that science is the best method we have of understanding the world around us, it has, when applied to technology, been outstandingly successful at creating increasingly functional designs of everything from cars to computers to everything you can think of. Why not also apply this method to our social design? Science is a way to understand how things work, and how to make them work better.
No amount of character bashing can change the empirical solidity of that line of reasoning.
aaron moritz said this on January 18, 2010 at 6:01 am | Reply

You call it character bashing , I call it pointing out details people ignore about the man, I think science is fine if you use it, but Jacque does not, he does drawings and talks about sciences possibilities, there are distinct differences.
I am not against things being better, but Jacque is not making things better by talking stories.
sidenote*
There are messages here I am not approving from his fans that belong on the ZM forum, if you wanna discuss this take it there in a thread, I am not interested in you all defending him to the death. The fact remains there are discrepencies in his character and his claims that need addressing somewhere, they would not be allowed on your forum so they are here.
anticultist said this on January 18, 2010 at 4:02 pm | Reply

Have you thought to ask him before going on your tirade to discredit the man?
Makes me wonder what your motive with this site is if you cannot even do basic research!
Sorry!
Joseph Matthew said this on January 18, 2010 at 2:01 pm | Reply

Ask him ?
Why dont you guys ask him, thats not my job, I could not care less why he did it, but I do know he did do it.
anticultist said this on January 18, 2010 at 4:03 pm | Reply

frescos silence in that interview was so loud my ears were bleeding. and all the excuses made on his behalf are simply hillarious. how can everyone so quickly jump to his defence on this. he could practically get away with murder and all the zeitgeist members would still try and rationalise it and make him out to be the victim. this is crazy.
at any moment he could have just said 'im sorry im going to have to correct you there, i dont have a phd, i just like to talk a lot.' and larry king would have laughed and so would the audience and there would have been some banter and it would have carried on. there was no reason, i repeat, no reason at all why he couldnt have said something when he was said to have a phd.
and as for the research, they have to have gotten it from somewhere. my guess is he was looking for a leg up because he was nervous about being in the spotlight and thought that people would listen to him if he sounded like he was qualified. because most people when they hear a doctor on a talk show, listen very carefully and take their time. but when people hear some random guy on a talk show talking about the future simply say, what a load of bull.
finaldrive163 said this on January 19, 2010 at 8:49 pm | Reply

If the only thing you read here is that people are defending him, then my guess is that you are reading into it what you want to see.
Most people are saying "not enough information" but if you have a smear agenda, then I guess that comes across as a defense.
I'm not going to bother posting here anymore, because it is clear the moderator is not interested in discussion; only to espouse his point of view and delete those who make valid contrary points.
You cannot have honest debate if you filter rational comments that disagree with you.
Moderator: show your true colors, and post this.
EDIT ANTICULTIST:
Joseph while I value you have an opinion, please let me show you the page where I lay out the way it runs here:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/about/
Now if you look at the bold print I clearly lay out, that this place is for an alternative opinion which is generally locked, deleted or outright shouted over on the zm forum.
So I know you wish to have a debate about it, but this is not the place.
This is a repository for alternative views about your movement, I do not mind you all talking about it on your own pages or your own blogs, but I will be very honest with you here.
Most of the replies I get here are just bashing of people making posts, and outright propaganda in favour of the vp that exists on the forum.
Now if you guys came back with valid counter claims with research and links and proofs, then perhaps matters would be different, but thats just not how the repliers generally operate.
Look I have allowed this so I can tell you in all honesty that this is not the zeitgeist forum, hopefully that is polite enough for you to apreciate.
As a reminder I am simply keeping this place free of the zeitgeist forums fights
Joseph Matthew said this on January 20, 2010 at 4:09 am | Reply

Peter Joseph is apparently trying to emulate Jacque, in an interview from around Z Day, the hosts called him "Dr. Peter Joseph" twice without being corrected.


Doctorate in what, playing the marimba?
anon said this on March 19, 2010 at 5:32 am | Reply

hahahaha great find, what a bunch of fake bastards.
anticultist said this on March 19, 2010 at 9:55 am | Reply

Peter: "No I had no intention for that awareness to be sparked when i first started that project" -- Absolute bullshit
Shane Nolan said this on March 19, 2010 at 8:17 pm

Peter is against credentialism, Jacque is against credentialism, yet here we have them allowing false credentialism in their own names in both instances. The hypocrisy of their silence is quite unnerving, someone really ought to let the host of the show know his mistake, but in all reality Peter should never have allowed this to occur.
Like father like son.
anticultist said this on March 20, 2010 at 3:53 pm | Reply

And here we have evidence of Peter Joseph Merolas self admitted lack of credentials, he states he dropped out of college in his second year due to debt issues he was unhappy about.
So its pretty obvious he holds no PhD from his own admittance.
WATCH ME
anticultist said this on March 20, 2010 at 7:48 pm | Reply

Okay, I watched that whole interview with Larry King and noticed the doctor label too... He should have definitely corrected him. And to hear Peter Joseph do the same thing in his interview as they both put down those with credentials is funny to me. Too funny. But yeah - like grandfather, like grandson. I think that's what you meant. If someone was interviewing me and said something wrong or incorrect about me, I would be trying to correct that person rather it makes me look good or bad - period. It's a matter of ethics. Peter Joseph can put himself in a philosophical bubble and say that "ethics" is an empty word, but I'm not going for it. This is all seems unethical and hypocritical. I wouldn't see why they would just admit to being self-taught, with that honesty and how intelligent they present themselves to be, you would think that would be impressive alone - at least with that honesty, they could have been taken a bit seriously. Especially Jacque Fresco, he could have corrected Larry King and talked about what's in his resume. I would still be impressed if he did that as he went along to explain how we should redesign our culture. I just don't see a reasonable defense for this. Excuses would come weird like "well back in the 70′s, people use to call each other doctors (doc) like people call each other sir" or something like that. I just don't see how this miscommunication could have form - if that was the case. As far as the researchers goes, if they knew that Jacque Fresco was going to be interviewed by Larry King, you would think that they would have the common sense to ask Jacque Fresco directly about himself instead of hyping it up by assuming he was a doctor indirectly. If anything was retracted about this, please point me to it. I've personally stopped listening to Peter Joseph around January of this year on his radio shows. If I was to ask Jacque Fresco why he didn't correct Larry King back in the 70′s about this, he probably wouldn't be able to remember exactly what I'm talking about since he's 94 years old now. That's not an insult. So... yeah. But as the Zeitgeist Movement continues, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he gets an honorary doctorate from some school based in Florida - where the Venus Project is.
But here's a thought, do you think Larry King made up the PHD thing to make his show look more interesting? I mean, back in the 70′s, I don't think he was as popular as he is today.
Just a thought. Either way, there was no correction.
BranManFloMore said this on April 30, 2010 at 12:56 am | Reply

Dr. Peter Joseph, Proctologist
Sky said this on May 12, 2010 at 5:36 am | Reply

No no no... he goes by Peter Joseph Merola Esquire silly:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Peter+Joseph+Merola+Esquire&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=2b370e5802d156c3
BranManFloMore said this on May 12, 2010 at 3:42 pm | Reply

PJs works on the films and depth of research in them is in a single word bacheloresque. Its good research at the very shallow level but riddled with mistakes that real experts would never make.
Its a lot like watching somebody name off states of matter. If they only go for 3, you know the science class that last stuck was gradeschool. If they include plasma, you can bet that they made it
through high school or maybe even into college.
If they fail to mention white dwarf matter, singularities, or possible areas of stability for the periodic table of the elements
in much higher gravities, then you know (if you know that material) that the persons knowledge on the subject clearly didn't
get into college material.
Same thing. Only a person whos an expert can pick it out. Only a person who really has studied world religions in depth can see both the truth in his presentation and then point to ten utter breakdowns in logic and depth and research in that same presentation.
PJ and JF know this, and thats why they always alienate experts..
the con game relies upon them playing god with bachelors level knowledge above the ordinary person. But now i can play god above them with all of those Virtual Doctorates. But i'm not a jerk in that i don't have any urge to play god. Theres the difference.
Also, regarding atheism; in fact neither PJ nor JF are atheists.
They are anti-religion trolls. there is a difference, but you'd have to be a real atheist to appreciate it.
Its about the same thing tho as the guy i spot wearing a pentacle
on the street and a t-shirt that says "I'm a witch." If i ask him what the points of the pentagram represent and he can't answer, thats him flunking witch ABCs. He can fool all of his buddies on the school bus, and he can play at buffy the vampire slayer hocus pocus all he likes, but hes not a witch, hes a poser with a con game. The only people who are fooled are by definition ignorant.
prometheuspan said this on May 13, 2010 at 12:10 am | Reply

Anonymous is still going hard:
(The Zeitgeist Movement: Credential Dishonesty)

BranManFloMore said this on May 18, 2010 at 8:40 pm | Reply

hahaha they are on the ball
anticultist said this on May 18, 2010 at 9:47 pm | Reply

[...] Dr Jacque Fresco PhD in human factors engineering ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:10 pm | Reply

[...] Dr Jacque Fresco PhD in human factors engineering ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:11 pm | Reply

[...] a clip of a Larry King interview gets played where Jacque Fresco is referred to someone as having a PHD when this is [...]
Zeitgeist: Moving Forward [Review] « The Zeitgeist Movement Examined said this on January 24, 2011 at 10:35 am | Reply

There is nothing shady or inherently wrong with this business structure; I can verify this as an Economist. Even if they have a for-profit enterprise with a staff of 2, i think that 60k a year income for each is a respectable and conservative payout when considering their overall goals and objectives. If they really wanted to make 'profits' they would be netting 10 times or more. I admire your objectivity, anticultist, but it's a bit naîve in this case. ...personally I am interested in learning more about Venus Project and I will also remember your site. Thank you for the information.
JB said this on June 17, 2010 at 10:35 pm | Reply

If they really wanted to make 'profits' they would be netting 10 times or more. I admire your objectivity, anticultist, but it's a bit naîve in this case.
You mean like the $8000 per lecture they are recieving on this tour which ammounts almost $200,000 on top of the donations which ammount to around $28,000 before zeitgeist started prmoting them, and income they recieve from selling their dvds, books and audio cds which is the $120,000 you discuss ?
You are welcome as well.
anticultist said this on June 17, 2010 at 10:39 pm | Reply

Anticultist, please provide hard evidence to support your claims of $200,000 and $120,000 respectively. Thanks
Michael said this on June 18, 2010 at 2:51 am | Reply

Michael P please prove me wrong with evidence.
http://www.manta.com/c/mmg0z3j/venus-project-inc
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/earth-2-movie-venus-proect-fails-and-reators-cut-fresco-loose/#comment-623
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/earth-2-movie-venus-proect-fails-and-reators-cut-fresco-loose/#comment-419
Not just claims or speculation.
anticultist said this on June 18, 2010 at 11:58 am | Reply

Anticulst, you are making the claims, so you are responsible for providing proof.
I could make a claim that there is a flying spaghetti monster and then ask you to disprove this theory. Impossible.
You have made claims of $200,000 and $120,000 of profit. Your claims are only backed up by assumptions; no hard evidence.
Michael said this on June 18, 2010 at 12:26 pm | Reply

I just gave you the evidence to look at now prove me wrong with counter evidence. An email from TVP event organiser is not assumption its fact. A webapage which is a company listing for all companies is not an assumption its a fact.
I know how this works it's not rocket science. Provide counter evidence or quit flapping your lips.
anticultist said this on June 18, 2010 at 12:30 pm | Reply

Your "evidence" does not prove that TVP has received any money.
Michael said this on June 18, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Reply

And your lack of evidence does not dispute the evidence I have provided, and your claim is empty, again provide evidence or quit flapping your lips.
anticultist said this on June 18, 2010 at 12:48 pm | Reply

Thank you anticultist for all the work you've done to bring these financial aspects to light. In fact, no matter even if the two TVP founders really don't get that big piece of a pie as one of the commentors mentioned, but it's the way Roxanne responded to your mail - in every word dodging the straight answer to your clear and even friendly question.
al.z said this on June 20, 2010 at 10:05 am | Reply

Thank you, yes I think thats an important point you mention there since anyone with nothing to hide would have no problems in dealing with straight forward questions.
take care
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 1:46 pm | Reply

"yes I think thats an important point you mention there since anyone with nothing to hide would have no problems in dealing with straight forward questions."
Anticultist, how much money do you make per year? What do you spend your money on? What do you invest in? How much money do you make off of this web site?
Thank you for answering straight forward questions.
Michael said this on June 20, 2010 at 2:34 pm | Reply

I make nothing from this website, I do not run a charity or advertise for donations, and therefore I am not obliged or even in any need to offer up my personal income. Also since I do not claim to be operating in some way of saving the world I do not even have to prove anything about my personal status because I make no claims.
Your attempted reversal of evidence is transparent,, because what you are trying to do is make out I am dishonest by not offering up the information to you, but this is not even remotely sincere. In fact it is disingenouous of you to do that because you are trying to make the evidence that they are being financially vague or even dishonest go away by using an insincere pretext.
But if you want to check out any companies income you can do it if you know what the profit company is called, it is quite easy to do that but you will have to pay to get the information.
This is what people have and will be doing to find out about The Venus Project inc/Global Cybervision because since their profit company is the one they keep quiet and do not want to discuss people have to do their own research. We did this all here, in fact noone knew they were operating under global cybervisons, noone knew they had a profit company so it was all self research done.
So you are making a ridiculous attempt at making them look sincere with a false premise of a question because:
I do not run a charity here or a business.
I do not claim to be saving the world with a for profit/non proft business set up whose income I hide from my members.
I do not have any income to hide from my website or any sales or donations listed anywhere. [social vibe is not a donation either :D]
Your switch completely failed in trying to prove any point because it is based on a pretext of your own bias.
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 2:51 pm | Reply

So who sets up the "rules" here? Seems like you arbitrarily created the list.
TVP is a private organization. You are a private organization. TVP is trying to better the world. You are trying to ruin the credibility of TVP.
It seems fair to ask for your financial backings just as it is fair for you to ask TVP of theirs. Since you have motivation for discrediting TVP, then you should freely give out your financial information. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.
But the USA is the biggest hypocrite in the world and so perhaps you are working for the government. But since you are unwilling to disclose your finances, we can only assume you are being paid by the government to run this site.
Michael said this on June 20, 2010 at 3:03 pm | Reply

No there is no hypocrit here, I have no financial backing I am just a person typing a blog :S I have other people who contribute to it who also are individuals who disagree with the venus project and they do not pay me to post they just post, are you being charged to post here? did you pay any fees or donations to post here or even join wordpress ?
The answer is no, so there is no financial matter to even discuss regarding this blog any fool can see that, your argument is baseless and false.
Therefore again since I do not run a charity or a business regarding this blog or matter I have nothing to offer you as a financial statement or income for it.
And accusing me of being paid by the government or even working for them is not only paranoid it is the typical response one gets from a conspiracy theorist who can not accept the facts placed in front of them about the reality of matters. If you want to research me and find out if I have any ties with the government or am being paid by the government please feel free to follow that dead end posit of yours, it will only turn up empty and incorrect because it is just your ridiculous mind at work.
You are playing into my hands here as well because I have already gone into the us vs them mentality and the mind of a conspiracy theorist on this blog, and your post above is a perfect example of the mind set.
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 3:14 pm | Reply

How can we trust what you are saying without financial proof? Its interesting that you can separate what you are doing but when the same standard is held up to you, you say it doesn't apply.
You are a hypocrite.
As for paranoid, it seems like you are the one being paranoid about TVP. Oh wait, that doesn't apply to you either. Because:
You are a hypocrite.
You say you are not a charity or a business; however, you certainly have motivation to discredit. Could that motivation be financially based? We don't know until you disclose your finances. But again, that doesn't apply to you because:
You are a hypocrite.
Here are the facts, you request financial information on a private entity. You make wild claims and conspiracies based off of the lack of financial information. Then you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist for doing the same thing to you. Why?
You are a hypocrite.
In summary, you are a hypocrite.
Michael said this on June 20, 2010 at 3:32 pm | Reply

Silly arguments Michael you are really making yourself not only look dumb but also ignorant of the facts staring you in the face. Denial is a wonderful thing to observe in people and you expressing the levels of denial here is funny.
Calling a person a hypocrite repeatedly wont make it true you know ?
It just makes you look really silly
anticultist said this on June 20, 2010 at 4:01 pm | Reply

Michael, brilliant reply. I was hoping someone would point out the hypocrisy in this article and comment thread. I am not a member of TZM but I've followed the movement and I know a lot about The Venus Project. This particular post is merely a blanket statement with no factual evidence to back it up. I'm getting the vibe that this group of individuals have a bitter taste in their mouths towards TZM and TVP (I'm going to guess due to past history with members or moderators of the movement) and enjoy pacifying one another's hurt feelings by collectively whining about it on this blog. I'm all for looking at issues objectively, otherwise I wouldn't have stumbled on this particular post, but this blog is clearly biased towards TZM and TVP. As Michael posted above, you cannot prove a negative. Anyone with a smidge of brains and an elementary grade science class can understand this. Those that are making the claims are the ones that need to provide substantial evidence towards their claims. It appears to me that this post is clearly defamation of character towards a company that clearly nets nickels and dimes compared to countless other organizations in corporate America. If you actually want to do some service for your fellow human beings, why not invest your time whistle-blowing a company or organization where you have the factual basis to prove their malicious intent. I'm sorry dude, but Michael totally schooled you in that argument.
Hypatia said this on September 7, 2010 at 10:45 pm | Reply

So the facts that they are a profit company masquerading as a non profit entity, who sell dvds and audio cassettes of futuristic fantasies to gullible individuals is me just making things up. The fact that i posted this months ago and has not since been addressed inclusive of the emails sent to Roxanne Meadows is making things up.
You are just bias in that you ignore the relevant points because you are in love with the idea of TVP's futuristic bunk. If I was remotely bothered about TZM I would still be a member trying to argue with them on their forum but i left of my own free will because the place sinks to high heaven of BS.
What I like most is that TVP fanboys come over here and make snide passing comments about posts here with not a shred of information or argument against the claims other than anecdotal stories and ad hominems. If you were scientific you would provide some facts and evidence like I have but thats clearly beyond your scope of intellectual capability and integrity.
Being that you are clearly not objective whatsoever its fair to say you just proved to the people reading this that you are incapable of assessing the points made honestly and discussing the facts with us.
They make money every year [particularly with fan boys promoting their wares online for free and doing all the work for free] and they make more than you are even aware of, so when you have some information please do inform otherwise your posts will just look like the one above, full of nothing but hot air. It is you and TVP who are being schooled in public here.
anticultist said this on September 8, 2010 at 9:07 am

From my observation anticultist, you and maybe a handful of other individuals post comments to this thread bashing TZM/TVP b/c you are butt-hurt in some way and maybe some TZMers will pop in to make a few rebuttals. Like I said, I am not a member of TZM or TVP nor do I have any allegiance to them. I've read about them b/c the idea intrigued me. But I do enjoy hearing both sides of a story in order to make an objective opinion. Please, if this organization makes more than the $120k stated above in your post, provide the evidence to me and I would be more than happy to agree with you but all I see on this website is ego boosting among a few members and blanket statements about TVP. In my opinion, you have no leg to stand on regarding malicious intent from this organization. And again, you are the one providing the claims therefore it is your responsibility to provide the evidence. My evidence is this blog and these comments that you have created. Any individual can come on here, peek around for about 15 minutes, and come to the same conclusions that I have, that this blog is so full of delusional garbage that its just another one of those conspiracy theory sites that function on opinions and bias.
Hypatia said this on September 8, 2010 at 5:33 pm

yeah typical CT reversal nonsense that this is a CT site, I dont believe in 911 - peter joseph does so do all his members, how therefore am I conspiracy theorist. I even post against conspiracy theories regularly on conspiracy science forum, fail by you.
I left the group I was not banned - therefore how can I be butthurt, again fail by you.
I provided evidence already that they make money through a profit company and get donations through a non profit company, wheres your evidence to show they are not making a lot of money ? another fail by you.
Wheres your evidence, to counter the claims ?
Might as well just trot along like good little piggy Hypatia.
anticultist said this on September 8, 2010 at 7:55 pm

"So who sets up the "rules" here? Seems like you arbitrarily created the list."
Obviously.
"TVP is a private organization. You are a private organization. TVP is trying to better the world. "
No, they aren't, and even if they were, the net effect they are actually having is to get in my way.
"You are trying to ruin the credibility of TVP."
No, they have ruined their own credibility, we are merely reporting this fact.
"It seems fair to ask for your financial backings just as it is fair for you to ask TVP of theirs."
You are now comparing apples and oranges, and a one man small time blog operation to a money making juggernaut of a con scam.
" Since you have motivation for discrediting TVP,"
An ad hominem and untrue. I have motivation to solve problems and tvp is the problem.
Similarly, Anticultist is not trying to discredity TVP, he is reporting that they have discredited themselves. There is a difference.
You trying to spin it the other way is dizzyness.
"then you should freely give out your financial information. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite."
No, because hes not asking for money, and thats just to start.
You are trying to compare things that do not compare and paint somebody into a corner with utterly flawed logic.
"But the USA is the biggest hypocrite in the world and so perhaps you are working for the government. "
Back the question of paranoid delusions.
"But since you are unwilling to disclose your finances, we can only assume you are being paid by the government to run this site."
Excuse me, damn, you made me laugh so hard i spilled my drink.
"How can we trust what you are saying without financial proof?"
Hes not asking for money, hes not at all the same kind of creature, there is no comparison. Your comparison is forced and commites so many logical fallacies I can't even decide where to begin.
"Its interesting that you can separate what you are doing but when the same standard is held up to you, you say it doesn't apply."
It doesn't apply for obvious reasons, anticultist is a completely different sort of entity.
If he was like TVP, he would have banned you for disagreeing with him.
"You are a hypocrite."
You are in no position to make such an assessment sanely.
"As for paranoid, it seems like you are the one being paranoid about TVP."
No, we are stating the facts about them and you aren't comfortable with them.
"Oh wait, that doesn't apply to you either. Because:
You are a hypocrite."
No, he isn't.
"You say you are not a charity or a business; however, you certainly have motivation to discredit."
According to you, but this doesn't look anything like your spun up version of reality.
"Could that motivation be financially based? "
LOL.
"We don't know until you disclose your finances. But again, that doesn't apply to you because:
You are a hypocrite."
repeating an attack over and over again does not make it true.
He is not a hypocrit, you are trying to compare things that do not warrant that kind of comparison, its a forced marraige and a forced comparison, it excludes middles, and it equivocates.
Your argument is fatally flawed and patently nutty.
"Here are the facts, you request financial information on a private entity. "
TVP is either a social movement or a private entity. Make up your mind.
"You make wild claims and conspiracies based off of the lack of financial information."
No,
however i have counseled him against using this argument and direction because it is weak compared to others and because this is the obvious counter argument.
"Then you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist for doing the same thing to you. Why?"
Again, its clear that you are spinning. If you seriously think there is a comparison to be made there, then you are bonkers.
"You are a hypocrite.
In summary, you are a hypocrite."
In summary, you are not sane enough to make such an assessment.
prometheuspan said this on June 21, 2010 at 6:44 am | Reply

[...] via The Venus Project is not just non-profit? « Zeitgeist is a mind heist - venus project is a scam ?. [...]
The Venus Project is not just non-profit? « Peace & Nonviolence Project said this on July 19, 2010 at 7:01 pm | Reply

[...] Zeitgeist members are generally aware that the Venus Project operates under a non-profit 501c titled 'Future by design', but they are blind to the fact that it is a for-profit organization as well. http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_hxlxws "Venus Project Inc is a private company located in Venus, FL. Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2." The Venus Project, Inc. also current ... Read More [...]
The Venus Project is not just non-profit? « Peace & Nonviolence Project said this on July 19, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Reply

this World of Polished Garbage is, as usual, doing them worse; its Easy to understand why the Venus Project makes people feel so Ugly.
Perets said this on August 8, 2010 at 8:56 pm | Reply

Venus Project just makes me think about how impractical and unevidenced it is, nothing to do with feeling ugly or threatened.
anticultist said this on August 8, 2010 at 10:34 pm | Reply

Interesting: Why do you care and how does it threaten you? No one would spent as much time and money to do what you do unless they were being rewarded so way. So do you get rewarded by doing what you do?
Carter said this on August 10, 2010 at 11:42 pm | Reply

No I am an ex member who disagrees with the movement now, I just do this out of a public calling. The movement always repeats if you have an opinion they dont want to read or see on their forums, then you take it elsewhere and talk about it.
So here we are, my own blog, my own views, my own points on offer for people to view.
If I was being paid or rewarded for this I would probably take a bit more pride in my work and make it a lot more professional, this to me is just a hobby or a past time in my free moments.
anticultist said this on August 10, 2010 at 11:47 pm | Reply

"If I was being paid or rewarded for this I would probably take a bit more pride in my work and make it a lot more professional,"
This blog is totally unprofessional especially since its totally opinion based without any valid supporting evidence. Thank you for admitting the weakness of this blog.
dragonrides said this on August 10, 2010 at 11:52 pm | Reply

Well I would have to disagree its not totally unprofessional, its just my own take on things and there are a lot of facts on offer here you dont get to see in their forum, so its serving its intended purpose. So no I did not say it was unprofessional, I merely said I would be more professional about it and pay more attention to its presentation, and make it more official. But its a personal blog, so I keep it personal :D
Also if it was lacking any actual content throughout its entirity your points may be worth considering, but it can be definitively proven wrong by a look around at posts all over it so that last post of yours just flopped son/madame.
anticultist said this on August 11, 2010 at 12:02 am | Reply

I thought this was an interesting thread:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=287811
Cosar's question was valid before he gave up with them as you can tell.
"Shouldn't we support the Future By Design instead ?"
That seems to be a reasonable question.
By Peter Joseph:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=287811&limit=10&limitstart=10#288046
He says this right after Cosar points out that the Venus Project is a for-profit entity:
"The legal issue is meaningless- as it is in general. You are also the first to ever bring this up in such a way so why you would assume it "creates confusion"- implying it has so with others - is odd, as no one other than you has evidently cared."
The first?
Either he's lying or very ignorant:
http://www.rbefoundation.com/grouptopic.php?p=13555#p13555
EXHIBIT A 4.0 tells me that he's lying, especially when you find out the thread is gone now that talked about the same thing previously. Plus, everyone that hates your blog was aware of this information- so yeah...
But of course, we have no evidence with our criticism. They are right and we are wrong [sarcasm].
BranManFloMore said this on September 8, 2010 at 7:15 pm | Reply

Yup, as you can see what I was hoping to get is the legal interpretation of the whole situation. Even suggested the optimum solution to have this thing resolved. Such a reaction and unwillingness to solve it means that either, there is no interest in solving it or he has no idea what he is talking about.
The second assumption is to be proven untrue as one of the first things we get after establishing the RBEF was the mail from Karen and the "powerful legal team" about the copyright of RBE and removing the "Zeitgeist Movement". Of course it can also be the ignorant attempt to pretend to be "legally" smart. However it is more probable that they know about "for profit" operations of the VP and they create the smokescreen to justify it without really addressing it, while promoting ideology of anti-monetary system. It definitely cannot be called integrity.
Cosar said this on September 9, 2010 at 12:59 pm | Reply

"especially since its totally opinion based without any valid supporting evidence."
Untrue, and rhetorical, in fact his approach is evidence based.
"So do you get rewarded by doing what you do?"
The pay offs are invisible to most people as they exist at the upper need class. Needless to say the pay offs are quite obvious to those who share those insights. We do this because society NEEDS somebody to do it, because to know what we know and not raise the alarm would be to participate in evil.
'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'
prometheuspan said this on September 9, 2010 at 1:10 am | Reply

This is interesting. I just was just watching the movies and thinking about the Venus Project
Generation 26 said this on October 12, 2010 at 10:51 am | Reply

yeah its very interesting material.
anticultist said this on October 13, 2010 at 11:46 pm | Reply

[...] The Venus Project is not just non-profit? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:11 pm | Reply

[...] The Venus Project is not just non-profit? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:12 pm | Reply

Hello, I happened upon your site through sheer curiosity and have read roughly half of your articles here. I identify with general semantics, environmental psychology(and science in general) and economic systems such as a resource based economy irrespective to the movements known as "The Zeitgeist Movement" and "The Venus Project". I was just wondering where you derived a lot of your conclusions and assumptions about those two movements. As far as I know, most members in TZM/TVP know about how two separate organizations deal with the nonprofit and profit based credits circulated through donation and purchase of product. I am also wondering why this is such a horrendous atrocity lol.
Let's say I have a company, would that make me more suspected of leading a cult if I had people who identified with my ideas? Jacque Fresco and Roxanne live off of the money generated from donations and profits and the two "employees" of their organizations are, in fact, themselves. Again, this is common knowledge (as far as I can gather) amongst people who identify with the ideas presented the TZM/TVP. While a LOT of people in the movement exhibit cult-like tendencies and I do know what you mean about your statements on this blog, this is exhibited from people whom (as I perceive it) do not understand much about science nor semantics and are largely drawn to the movement through the sweeping appeals to emotion.
You made a statement on how the movement is not scientific and have made many claims in regards to how the ideas of TVP and TZM are pseudoscientific. You are completely correct, they have no peer reviews or tests to verify them so in the scientific community, they'd be considered pseudoscience. A RBE is an idea, not a scientific fact. What the movement calls for is a testing of this hypothesis. That is all that Jacque's idea is a hypothesis and no scientist would deny that his hypothesis is subject to error, as I have witnessed Jacque admitting.
The idea is based upon laymen(and in some cases credentialed, professional) knowledge of science in regards to (primarily) psychology, nano technology, energy allocation and engineering, architectural and agricultural science, general semantics(less of a science, more of a scientific thought process) and likely others that I haven't mentioned. It is damn flawed but ask this, what of other prevailing social paradigms and or "philosophies"? Most "philosophies" if you'd even call the notion of a RBE that, have little or no basis in science and scientific thinking. I certainly prefer this thinking over other "philosophies" for this reason. I trust in ideas created other ideas (that were in effect created) by the testing and retesting of peer review over ideas formed through sheer individual contemplation.
You also made a comment on how Jacque didn't answer if he could trust Peter or not. I have had this experience myself. The idea of "trust" isn't something we contemplate everyday(certainly not in my case) and when you add semantic reasoning into the situation, well Jacque probably didn't know HOW to answer that question. I know I wouldn't. I'd have to sit down and really think about it(which explains his hurried and nervous answer, he was put on the spot and didn't want to seem like he hadn't thought about this before). I argue that it may not have been that he didn't actually trust Peter, but that he hadn't really thought about the idea of trust in semantic context and wasn't prepared to answer the question, but didn't want to seem like he didn't know how to answer the question so he gave a very shitty answer.
However, i will comment on his second(and after on his first) response. Jacque only trusts Peter in certain areas/to do certain things. What this means is that he recognizes the flaws that Peter has, along with his strengths, and can make conclusive decisions about Peter's ability to do certain things for him and not others. He is objecting to the idea that you either trust someone or you don't; in other words that you either trust someone completely or not at all. This is obviously not a black and white scenario though. The idea of absolute trust does in fact come from religion and if you want to delve even deeper than that, in unexplained forces(that is unexplained by early man) such as nature, or in how the world works. Do you trust mother nature to take care of you when you are good and punish you when you are bad? Replace mother nature with God and you've got where this idea of absolute trust comes from. It has since evolved from nature to deities. You either trust god or you do not. If you do, you are rewarded, if you do not, you are punished. Obedience is rewarded while dissent is punished. This is how early large social groups formed. The powerful ruled the weak through the abstraction of trust. Early laborers trusted that their leaders were honest and looking out for their best interest and in some cases, "chosen by the gods/god". It's sort of an idea used to manipulate people or groups of people. Did Jacque explain this? No. I don't think he thought it through completely and took his time like I did. Is it not reasonable to trust someone only in areas that your tests have shown them to be able to be trusted(as in through their actions, habits, tendencies, proclivities etc.)? Would you trust a businessman to teach a highschool classroom? Would you trust a soldier to offer clinical therapy to a psychologically distressed individual? Likewise, would you trust a person with a tendency to lie with a secret or someone who behaves selfishly and compulsively with your finances?
You seem like a reasonable man(no more reasonable than those emotionally swayed in TZM and TVP who lack the scientific thought processes to defend their ideas, but nonetheless, reasonable enough to maybe see what I'm stating here). I look forward to your response and hope this clears things up. You might want to read Stuart Chase's "The Tyranny of Words" though. It really helps with understanding the world from an empirical, scientific perspective.
While you might condemn me as seeing science as "sacred" or holding it in too high a regards, I do so only because it is a a thought process/method that has proven itself and has been testing the efficiency of its results in the technological advancements of human civilization since it was first adopted in the 15th-17th centuries, and the results are showing its usefulness and accuracy which is increased as scientific knowledge increases. It would make sense to apply it to your thought process as well, as an empirical approach to the universe, instead of one based upon abstractions such as the ones I have seen you use to discredit TZM/TVP(a movement with which I only identify with due to similar ideas). I will admit, I too have used them but in order to get through to you. I hope my efforts weren't in vane.
Andrew Rand said this on February 16, 2011 at 2:05 am | Reply

You are over a year late for this party, this ones been covered and covered and covered. You making excuses up for Jacque wont help him out much, hes still an old dude spouting bullshit with no credibility.
Only idiots would follow the venus project and the zeitgieist movement and take it seriously plain and simple.
anticultist said this on February 16, 2011 at 10:50 am | Reply

The worse people to listen to in my opinion are those who pull apart an idea yet offer nothing but negativity and name calling in return...will that get us anywhere? No! Stop grandstanding. Try using your whole life to better human kind and see where it gets you!
Lee said this on February 18, 2011 at 2:13 am

The worst people are those who ignore the glaring hypocrisies and refuse to do research into those hypocrisises and then stand on a pedastal of moral superiority to others. Get down from your self imposed ivory tower before you come crashing down to reality with a bang.
anticultist said this on February 18, 2011 at 3:21 pm

Wouldn't I come crashing down to reality with a thud??? Bang isn't really the right word to use here, tsk tsk
Lee said this on February 21, 2011 at 1:13 am

You dont even deny you are on a pedastal of moral superiority, the only thing you say in retort is a semantic word issue ...this proves my point completely thank you Lee for your candid ignorance and arrogance.
anticultist said this on February 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

As you well know Anticultist, words are very powerful. What you say and how you say it, is very important. They have far reaching effects too, not to mention consequences. The truth is, regardless of what I was standing on, it was your intention to bring ME "down" because you didn't like what I said. You took it personally instead of hearing it for what it was, an opinion. I was not grandstanding but I thought you were. Arrogance leaves a scent and these blogs and you are full of it, IN MY OPINION. So, I stand by my original comment and hope your rants give you all the satisfaction your looking for. All the best Lee
Lee said this on February 26, 2011 at 10:48 pm

I would rather be considered arrogant and correct than a morally superior dumbass and incorrect Lee.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm

Oh I forgot to address another point.
You claim that TVP/TZM claims that a RBE society would and could happen after societal breakdown. I don't want to speak for the whole movement but I'm pretty sure a lot of people in the movement don't think that. Would that be nice? Yes. Is it a certain thing? No. Is it impossible? Not necessarily, I think it might be(at least to say there is probably a higher chance of it being possible than not). There is a lot of scientific research that has to go into proving this hypothesis, and that means tests. The major problem is that this test requires all of society to undergo a complete paradigm shift in not just economy but in how people think which would have to become scientific and or empirical. After society breaks down, the rebuilding of a RBE type society would only be possible through the participation and intervention of every person who's skills are relevant for the project such as technically skilled people in engineering and math based sciences(which are the most empirical) such as nano tech, advanced applied physics, energy allocation, pretty much anything pertaining to the technology that runs society. The only chance our civilization would have at even getting to test it would be if we maximized the human resources available (as in the people who can actually make this happen). A preferred method to this would be to start now and make this a gradual process,but a societal breakdown would work in the sense that it might unite humanity to try this in order to survive. It'd be much more difficult to try and create a RBE society in a collapsed society, I mean think about the potential war carnage and destruction caused by a societal breakdown(the counter productivity is immense) so in no way would a societal breakdown be preferable in terms of creating a RBE.
Andrew Rand said this on February 16, 2011 at 2:17 am | Reply

There is a lot of scientific research that has to go into proving this hypothesis, and that means tests.
Therefore is pretty damn obvious that everything they claim hinges upon everyone in the world accepting their nonsense and the whole world participating in it before it can be proven to work or not !!! Surely this alone should make your rational mind see the ridiculousness of the claims. Sheesh man its pretty stupid
anticultist said this on February 16, 2011 at 10:48 am | Reply

I can't be bothered to scour these comments but I assume the issue is unresolved. In terms of the financials, any irs recognized nonprofit which makes more than $X a year is required to file a form 990 which is public record.
If no 990 is available, I suggest Roxanne be contacted one last time saying that you will be contacting the IRS in 1 week in inquiry about their form 990 and that you suggest the transparency issues be resolved by then, or this inquiry will be accompanied with a fraud complaint as it's illegal to use an NPO to plug a commerical product when there is a clear conflict of interest. Particularly if the commercial product is flying under the banner of the NPO implying purchases are donations.
If they are not above board, then the IRS will resolve the issue. If they are above board, the IRS will still resolve the issue.
notforprofit said this on February 28, 2011 at 8:43 am | Reply

I would recommend anyone doing this, i have had my share of conversations with zeitards, cult members and cult leaders, I no longer interact or pay much attention to this subject. this blog is simply left up for public record and anyone who wants to follow it up can and should.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm | Reply

I have read through your articles and I agree I distanced myself from the VP and TZM because it became a cult and it seemed nothing was getting done. I moved to the rbose( resource based open source environment) just because I wanted to get involved in Open Source and other projects. I still think JF and other speakers are right on with the resource depletion and that the fundamental change is needed because this path of consumption is unsustainable as the world population grows. Their solutions are very theoretical and should be taken skeptically but I think we all agree we need to start brainstorming for solutions that shift the world away from this constant need to grow GDP and exploit the earth because we cannot economically grow exponentially. JF is perhaps too involved in his ego but non the less we the people need to stand up for the good of human kind.
Chris Nguyen said this on March 4, 2011 at 11:16 pm | Reply

Is there any evidence of this money being used in any way that does not go towards the furtherment of the project? Or are you simply villianizing him for securing an income which all people and all organizations (even non profits) need to function in society the way it is set up?
Just curious.
Holly said this on May 28, 2011 at 3:50 am | Reply

Is there any evidence he is using it to build the things and research the things he claims will save the world and be a part of his grand design ? other than childish models and shitty videos ? If so provide us with it, thanks. Just saying
TVP: Saving the world one DVD sale at a time
anticultist said this on July 16, 2011 at 12:37 am | Reply

How do you propose someone builds a whole city from 120,000 dollars a year split between 2 people?
What they claim to be able to do is in fact pure truth. There is nothing mystical and far fetched about a resource based economy. It is simply a system based on strategic management of the worlds resources and equality among the human race.
The issue at hand is that this would require the biggest change society has ever witnessed and thus needs support from the world. Do you think they are just going to change the world alone? If you care about your life and the world around you then stand up for yourself on your own.
It doesn't matter what I say though... this is the internet. Do your own research and make up your own mind. Here is a start in the right direction... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
Chris said this on October 3, 2011 at 12:44 am

What dribble. $28000 is hardly much to make assumptions on. My yearly salary is more than that amount and I am working in manual labor.
Jeffdunham said this on June 20, 2011 at 11:14 am | Reply

Then you should start taking donations to change the world like your charlatan hero.
anticultist said this on October 22, 2011 at 1:50 pm | Reply

I think it's a scam too and appreciate that you are passionately putting effort in educating the masses and bringing attention to the reality of what this organization truly is. They prey on the sheeple of the world to convince and outrage them that they are being tricked, oppressed by the authoritative powers with their films which at first seem innocent enough trying to just open our minds to how corrupt the government is but I believe there is an agenda that isn't as innocent as it seems at first glance. I was so moved by the films I looked into the Venus project, added myself to their facebook group and posted a very uneducated post praising their efforts and agreeing passionately with their eye opening films. I appreciate that they are trying to "change the worlds view point on the realities of government and conspiracy however upon reflecting on it further and trying to find more information on what it actually is and who these people are It dawned on me I had been scammed. These videos are simply created to outrage people and manipulate them into believing that their "vision" and organization is the ONLY solution and option for change and everything else is wrong and a lie. They expose how corrupt religious organizations are and how fraudulent they are however their organization is trying to control the masses too to join and fund their institution with their propaganda cleverly fashioned as exposed facts spun to only see the bad in all of the controlling organizations (government, religion etc) with the agenda of convincing people that if they blindly follow their organization it would be put into power and monopolize with their idealistic ways which aren't even fully proven to work neglecting to acknowledge the very real factor that man is easily corrupted and when given power. it will be abused whether our currency is paper or non existant there isn't actually any hard evidence that this will work. I'm not saying anything you don't know obviously and definitely need to educate myself further with facts which I will definitely be following on your blog. Long story longer... I posted a query after my initial praising" how amazing they are" post saying " can someone please inform me why I should believe that joining, volunteering, believing everything that is said without questiom,building domes in florida and purchasing literature from this organization is the is only option we have to change the world? It sounds similar to a cult recruiting people to believe in their message and their ideals only to achieve power"... An hour later it disappeared but my original praise post was still there... I re posted it and it was Non-Existant once again shortly after. They obviously didn't want my sceptism to be there to poison their following of almost 100,000 members on Facebook. To wrap it up any help I can provide you to expose and spread the facts of this scam to the masses please let me know! I have only done a bit of research in the past day since I watched the film and would appreciate to be pointed in the right direction to learn more factoids of this movement that is trying to covertly manipulate the masses into believing this is the ONLY solution to unite the world as one.
Allison said this on June 22, 2011 at 8:48 pm | Reply

Even if Peter whomever was a pumpkin eater or consorted with Paul & Mary from a Folk Lore loving early 60′s late 70′s "If I HadHamer" hit song group. Or if in fact he turned out to be Nessie the Loch Ness, Bigfoot, or even Santa himself, the point is not the name that carries the message to the podium, its the message delivered that should be in question. Can we the people relate to or verify that which the speaker of the house communicates to us? Is he asking us to run like Lemmings off the edge of a cliff and into the ocean in a herd of belief that, that would please the Lemmings Gods into Valhalla? Not that ive read or heard from any one of the reminder speeches given by this evasive Peter person, whoever he is turns out to be in the end. Unless he's using reverse phsychology on all of us and really works for Corporate Governing forces whom would profit from such false prophecies, and soon we will all be duped when we turn away from factual truths out of paranoia that hope couldnt possibly exist without the second coming of a more supreme being than that is not man, the flawed species amongst all species, when seeking a solution to the conflict that should interest any one with half a brain common sensed with the ability to logistically evaluate that which is there free to all as a ciurtesy to one brave individual to risk all sorts of scrutiny and possible life threatening events that made the other 99% of our populous keep to themselves. So, a hero i would suggest we use to label this Peter peace seeker, due to the fact that even if he profitted from standing before anyone who would listen, his message spoke for everyone, even those whom would never confess to it, such as your "anonymous" self centering views to a conspiring Hero's intentions. Thank you team "Peter Hero" for having the balls to stand against the great Oz whom i guarantee may be those blogging negatively against this movement. And that we all know, that if you can discredit the man at the podium, through any sort of character flaws, you can also damage the message he delivers. But the beauty behind both the man and his message, is that we already know man is flawed beyond repair, but this man balled up to the free throw line and swoosh, all net, and those whom will benefit from spectating this event? Everyone!!!, even you the extreme skeptics. We will care for everyone equally should not just one man break this barrier, but all men. Humanity!
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity" - Horace Mann.
Sincerely,
Curtis
Curtis said this on July 17, 2011 at 8:22 pm | Reply

paranoia will get you before your imagined enemies will. Calm down and take some meds.
anticultist said this on October 22, 2011 at 1:47 pm | Reply

i agree with about the non transparent way the Venus project acts...
but besides that, i think there is allot of knowledge and new way of thinking in that project, that is actually very sustainable.
as a fact I`m investing in automated building and renewable energy resources.
its working without the monetary paradoxes, by making up a cooperatives with other people want to gain the same good quality and profit less product...
to be sincere, I`m a zeitgeist movement member...
stuk88 said this on September 26, 2011 at 11:24 pm | Reply

btw is that picture of yours is, picture of Peter Joseph or is that really you? because it looks very similar ..
stuk88 said this on September 26, 2011 at 11:26 pm | Reply

It is a combination of Peter Joseph Merola and Jared Lee Loughner.
anticultist said this on October 22, 2011 at 1:30 pm

Please warn people from the very top of this blog not to waste their time reading this nonsense.
Your argument is baseless. In fact from what I have read, the lady from the Venus Project answered more questions on her financial cicrumstances than I ever would. And clearly more than you ever would either.
Thanks Anticultist, you have just stolen 15 minutes of my life that I will never see again.
John said this on December 1, 2011 at 4:07 pm | Reply

You are welcome I love wasting conspiritards time, it is one of my favourite internet hobbies. I recommend you don't waste any more time and fuck off.
anticultist said this on December 7, 2011 at 1:39 pm | Reply

i was thankfully on hand to deliver the news to the occupy movement regarding the cult. I don't know who you guys imagine is ever going to buy this cock and bull BS, but as far as PJ being some kind of hero? LOL. PJ and the cult are in fact destroying the chances for a real revolution, vamping the energy of people who would otherwise have a positive impact, trolling the religious, trolling the other social movements, and in short, the end result and outcome of the evil fascist pack psychology driven cult is that positive social change is prevented from happening by sucking potential energy for positive social change into this sick and twisted con scam of a black hole. You guys want to talk about the good things in the venus project or PJs good ideas but REFUSE to face reality regarding the bad. If PJ is so wise, why did the venus project dump him? If they are so wise, why did they take down their own forum which they could NEVER manage to control to death otherwise? PJ and Jaques are simply ego centered people doing the work of keeping the sheeple from escaping the mental cages and operating as a stalking horse for agenda 21.
But you guys have the gall to keep coming back, even after these points have been well proven, and arguing about it. Let me clue you in. The public knows. You lost. When i go to occupywallstreet.org and see you morons trying to post your shit there, I see immediate reaction as people immediately identify that its a cult. Everyone knows. Anticultist WON. The site has been taken down, the public is aware, and the cult is dwindling in numbers and can not grow because more people are against it than are for it.
If you want to promote the good ideas the cult has you best disentangle from the cult and start something else. Something that also has the assorted answers and solutions which TZM does not have and can never have. In short. You can get to the textbooks and have a REAL revolution, or you can let con scam cultists keep sucking your time and energy into an infinite pit. Anticultists work is done; the world knows its a cult and you can't stop the world from understanding this. Occupy movement has flatly rejected the cult. The end.
prometheuspan said this on December 11, 2011 at 11:36 pm | Reply

Welcome to the Circus:
http://occupy-crackpots.tumblr.com/post/11657465151/trust-skynet-and-paradise-awaits-the
Mario Brotha said this on December 12, 2011 at 11:13 pm | Reply

It is truly remarkable how much trouble people undergo at 'proving something must be wrong'. Just keep on believing and supporting the old system and keep on suffering.
You seem to 'forget' that it is this very system we are living in that has a need for money to realize stuff. In other words: WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?!?! This is the current reality until that moment that the new (and in my opinion ONLY) reality will become in effect.
It will all - the old system - end, and I for one, will be there for you and many others to help create understanding and support that the universe WILL PROVIDE what we TRULY NEED.
The question is: what do you want to believe?
Alexander Israel said this on January 8, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Reply

Listen, no one here doesn't understand we are in the economic climate of making money, but it is interesting that the venus project is not a company set up to build anything it is a company set up to make a profit from making movies and books. The sooner you realise how easily you are being sold snake oil the better.
anticultist said this on January 10, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply

anticultist, you are correct in one thing (they do make profit from movies and books) but also incomplete.
We all understand we are in a monetary system, so the thing about Jacque making profit from movies and books is out of the way.
So, the question is: is TVP a company for building a new city or for making profit from films and books?
If I understand TVP well, what we need is not a new city, we need a new value system that will make a new city and everything else sustainable. Now, the only way to "install" a new value system, is through media (films, books, etc). That's why Jacque is not spreading technical details yet. Anything concrete he might say can be used commercially in this society.
Just put yourself in his place. You are now 90+ years old. You spent your whole life working on a project so that when you are almost in the very end of it (dying), you can profit from all the other people. Well, it doesn't make sense at least to me. Maybe it would make more sense if he had met Roxanne while he was very young so that he would think of leaving all the money with her. But that didn't happen and even if it did happen, he would be too young to think about something like that. So, again, it doesn't make sense. I hope you will think about it.
hangyaku said this on January 14, 2012 at 11:54 am | Reply

I have thought about it, the problem is he has been taking handouts and donations from well meaning people for over 35 years, he has garnered the land primarily from the money off other people, when Jacque dies Roxanne will get everything , and the chances are she will likely sell up and move on. They both have no children together, Jacque has some with another woman, but I believe they are out of the picture completely.
Anyway, there are hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cash from a business that is only set up for marketing and advertising, their corporate structure is not designed for city building or planning, they are not that kind of business neither legally or physically.
So all they are is a promotional avenue for words and pictures, words and pictures that have been uttered on numerous occasions by too numerous to mention authors and scholars. The are just selling snake oil for the masses with no intentions of ever fulfillling their claims, good intentions or not I don't care. If they are setting people up for pipe dreams that are centuries away in the future it is useless to the world we currently reside in, because you don't get to the utopia through one gigantic wish, those things take real world solutions in baby steps.
And those baby steps have been and are continuously being made by real world scientists, mechanics, designers all around the world who are way beyond the venus projects intellect and abilities.
anticultist said this on January 19, 2012 at 4:48 am | Reply

honestly does no one understand that regardless of his intentions he is still forced to function in the current society and monetary system. How do you expect him to achieve anything with out money in the current system?
120 thousand a year is chump change for the research that needs to be done and the resources required to create these things. We have to evolve or emerge into this change or else we have to fail completely and hope the majority of us can continue.
I do not understand how you stand behind a project of this nature and expect there to be no money involved in our worlds current state. ITS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE THATS THE PROBLEM
Jay said this on January 19, 2012 at 6:32 am | Reply

Thing is I don't even believe in the venus project, I see it as a complete pile of baloney and I have laid out why in many posts and comments through out this blog site. So him making money off the back of snake oil is my main concern, he is quite literally selling pie in the sky to fools who will believe him without evidence or physical designs.
I expect him to be realistic and prove his claims about technology and cities are credible and get people involved in showing his shit to everyone. The problem we arrive at here is he keeps resorting back to the tired old trope that people will rip him off, leading back to him only being concerned about money and getting credit and total control.
The problem is there are people far more intellectual and experienced in the subjects he claims to be knowledgeable of who could and are doing better in the real world right now than he ever could or will.
anticultist said this on January 19, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Reply

"Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2."
- $120k for 2 people is revenue, not profit. I probably covers their operating costs and some food and shelter. lol at you people claiming this is a scam because they barely break even.
Ty said this on February 25, 2012 at 11:56 pm | Reply

I think you have missed the hundreds of thousands they made from the venus project tour, and all the proceds they make from charging people for appearances in documentaries, interviews etc..
anticultist said this on February 29, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Reply

HAhahaha, you really don't know about what are you talking about, have you read any of the books ? do you know the concepts behind the venus project ? no.... of course no, you are really talking non-sense things, please go educate yourself, poor vague mind :)
foo said this on March 22, 2012 at 1:13 am | Reply

Typical cult member behaviour exhibited by you.I used to be a member and have read and watched all the material, go flush your retarded head in the toilet.
anticultist said this on March 22, 2012 at 11:38 am | Reply

Peter Joseph Merola,
Born: USA

The Americam marimba player, composer and arranger, P.J. Merola, is a alumni of The North Carolina School of the Arts and the Mannes Conservatory of Music in NYC.

P.J. Merola maintains an active career and is one of the few solo percussionist/marimbists working today. He received an exclusive award in Solo Percussion Performance from the National Endowment for the Arts (USA) in 1997 and collaborates/performs/composes extensively with many groups and organizations. He is a large advocate of multi-media expression and new music, while maintaining a focus on classical transcriptions and adaptations within the medium.

Taken from here:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Merola-PJ.htm

Who is Peter Joseph and how did Zeitgeist come to be? Peter was born in North Carolina to a middle class family.He later moved to New York initially to attend art school. Currently he lives and works in New York City as a freelance film editor/composer/producer for various industries.

Taken from here:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/q&a.htm

Also this information has just been passed on to me by anon:
'On the zeitgeistmovie site and IMDB, it lists Eric Clinton as the animator on Zeitgeist. I think that Eric Clinton is probably a pseudonym for Eric Merola. This is a video made by Eric Merola to promote the book The Great Derangement:

Taken from here: http://www.merolaproductions.com/TheGreatDerangement.html
Notice how it looks similar to Zeitgeist stylistically. When the scene changes it does that tv-fuzz thing, and there is a close up shot of a human eye.'
anticultist said this on February 10, 2010 at 9:17 pm | Reply

Another interesting thing about this video is the subject of the book it's promoting, 'The Great Derangement' by Matt Taibbi. The book pokes fun at religion and the Bush administration, but ironically also rips on the 9/11 truthers.
Matt Taibbi describes the book in this interview: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-may-27-2008/matt-taibbi
Here's his original article where Taibbi rips apart 9/11 conspiracies: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11818067/the_low_post_the_hopeless_stupidity_of_911_conspiracies
A quote from the article:
"I challenge a 9/11 Truth leader like Loose Change writer Dylan Avery to come up with a detailed, complete summary of the alleged plot -- not the bits and pieces, but the whole story, put together -- that would not make any fifth grader anywhere burst out in convulsive laughter."
I think it's hillarious, but I'm not a 9/11 truther. I wonder what some of the zeitgeister's would say about the fact that one of the creators of Zeitgeist (Eric Clinton/Eric Merola) was also paid to promote a book that says truthers are clinically insane?
anon said this on February 25, 2010 at 7:24 am | Reply

As a "zeitgeister" I would say I believe that 9/11 truthers being clinically insane seems highly likely. I would also ask what the point to this article is. To discredit Peter? Nice try...
Anon said this on February 20, 2012 at 4:36 am

Peter and zeitgeist discredited themselves numerous times already, this article just points things about him out, :)
anticultist said this on February 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm


This video even states that peter joseph and his brother eric visit the venus project @ 2 mins 49 seconds
UPDATED:
Alernative Link to watch the video

anticultist said this on February 10, 2010 at 9:37 pm | Reply

UPDATE
It is interesting that they removed this video from their youtube account showing Peter and Eric arriving, and Peter discussing the problems he is having with the transition plan with Jacque. [Removed from youtube user Journey2Venus, where it was originally hosted]
I wonder who asked them to do this ?
Anyway luckily people backed this video up.
anticultist said this on February 17, 2010 at 7:52 pm | Reply

Here is an old image taken from http://www.pjmerola.com
His old music website, I used timemachine to view the old website which was closed in Oct. 2007 when zeitgeist became famous, this image is off the main page and is a header image:

anticultist said this on February 10, 2010 at 9:43 pm | Reply

It's too bad that Archive doesn't let you listen to the music samples on that site.
anon said this on February 10, 2010 at 10:15 pm | Reply

You can listen to some here in a video entitled 'Aint never silent (2000)' at the bottom right.
He works/worked with this company of dancers quite regularly it seems
http://www.kdnydance.com/videoselections.htm
Also he had music playing @ the edinburgh fringe festival Wednesday, August 12th - Sunday, August 16th, 2009, see page 4:
link
anticultist said this on February 12, 2010 at 5:35 pm

Here is an image of Eric Merola, is there a resemblance ? He looks like a nice guy though by appearances.

Taken from here:
http://www.dexigner.com/design_news/6325.html
And heres peter :

Taken from here:
http://www.eerieinvestigations.com/gallery.html
anticultist said this on February 10, 2010 at 9:48 pm | Reply

Well, I guess that clears it up and now we can worry about something else!
Nanos said this on February 11, 2010 at 1:15 am | Reply

It's interesting that the Village Voice says he is a short-term equities trader. I wonder if he stopped that after he decided that the monetary system was a fraud.
anon said this on February 11, 2010 at 4:48 am | Reply

Yeah I know a few of us were discussing that too.
Its also interesting all of the major companies his brother has worked for in his flickerlab portfolio below too.
http://www.dexigner.com/design_news/6325.html
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 4:56 am | Reply

If he equities trades, perhaps if he makes money at it, he can tell us what software he uses (Unless he's skilled in the art personally, in which case, shouldn't he put together a money making team to help Fresco?) so we can all get into the act!
I have to say, I feel more comfortable now knowing he's just an ordinary gifted guy, whose struggled in life, experienced up and downs like the rest of us, and probably wishes he owned his own place!
I do find it interesting that people knew who he was 2 years ago and the information was just lurking around on the internet that anyone could with a bit of effort stumble across.
Nanos said this on February 11, 2010 at 9:48 am | Reply

I find it curious that people are more interested in who peter joseph is, than about the transparency of the finances of all the Venus Project & Zeitgeist companies, or other important issues we have brought up.
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 10:26 am | Reply

"I wonder why he wants his real name to be a secret. i'm sure the common story is that he would be scared of government backlash, but that's silly. If they wanted to come after him, they could find him as easily as this.
and of course, doing this finding is not actually doing anything illegal...my only conclusion is that he still needs to look good for his career. that's all i can think of. he complains often about having to do this advertising stuff he hates, and if he was found to be the leader of a movement for overthrowing the government, that would likely ruin his chances of getting hired." - Taken from facebook
My thoughts exactly, he wants to protect his and his brothers image to be able to continue to make lots of money, because he knows or suspects his movements going to fail ideologically, and believes he will have to continue his drudgery.
But hey his drudgery looks good, he makes music, he travels with it, he gets to hang around girls dancing from the new york dance schools, he gets to work on scores for things. He gambles on the stock market, lives on broadway in manhattan, a very expensive place to live and you need money and a good regular income.
His brother gets to make animations for big budget movies and tv shows and companies worldwide, and they generally live it up, again in manhattan.
so yeah. its not because its dangerous to them, its because they want to have their lives unaffected, while everyone else does their dirty work.
And they continue to make profits from them by free labour, sales, merchandising, as well as their other incomes. - Taken from facebook
maybe because of you, some wacky christian fundementalist might find him or his family and do harm to them.
Good job, feel guilty if anything bad happens now.. - Taken from facebook
Dont blame me, I am not responsible for anyones actions, they are responsible for how they treat people and use information.
Plus if they were going to do it, they could easily drop in to z day and put him down, its not like Peter hasnt advertised his where abouts is it ?
And if Peter hadnt offended them in the first place with his movie he would of had nothing to fear. - Taken from facebook
The point in all of this is such:
Any leader of a movement making publicly available movies condeming large groups of people and systems, and advising everyone to take certain actions, such as boycotting monetary systems, whilst focusing on a single aspect that is supposed to be solving the worlds problems is innevitably going to come under public scrutiny.
Anyone who would think they could make these kind of huge public media projects and just continue on under anonymity, whilst let everyone else take the wrap is utterly preposterous.
I get flack for pointing this out in this blog and I dont even have the egotistical nerve to offer my advice on solving the worlds issues, so why this man thinks he is above reproach and should be allowed some kind of anonymity as if he is special is simply not right.
As crazy as Alex Jones is, at least we know hes a business man making money from his exploits, we know who he is because he is public and doesnt hide who he is, maybe more on his background should be done too i admit. I respect Alex Jones in that he is publicly visible and doesnt hide his identity or attempt to, regardless of whether I think hes an arrogant man.
Then there are other people who have gone out on a limb discussing taboo and sensitive subjects in public areas and simply accepted they made the choice to do it, and they have to say who they are eventually.
Peter Joseph is nothing special and is not exempt from public scrutiny for his movies and ideas, his background is as important to what he is saying because it shows how much he truly believes and lives what he is saying, otherwise he is hypocritical.
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 10:57 am | Reply

To say 'if he hadn't offended them he'd have nothing to fear' is a little silly. When you're talking about fundamentalists they all too often attack things that have absolutely no gripe with them.
[anticultist EDIT: here he is arguing fundamentalists are dangerous to peter josephs safety]
Should Bjork be subjected to bomb scares because she says things like "Christianity forced us to ignore nature"? She has been, but she shouldn't be.
Brenton Eccles said this on February 11, 2010 at 11:48 am | Reply

No its not silly at all, Peter made his choices to offend and berate people in the public, if he is that naive to think it would have no effect on him and that he should be allowed to say what he wants without any backlash then he deserves a reality check.
I would not go on prime time air space saying something as appalling as "all gays should be neutered because they are useless to society as they have no inherent function to nature"[this was just a random BS example made up], firstly because its totally wrong, secondly because I understand how offensive and ignorant it is to treat human beings in this way by saying such nonsense.
If he is so stupid to think he can just say what he wants about society and religion and be above reproach, then in all truth he deserves to be told he is a jack ass for it.
Freedom of speech is all well and good, but anyone who thinks they can just say something this offensive to huge populations of society and then walk away anonymously is an idiot.
And might I add I dont condone violence or threats of violence, they are idiots too.
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 11:58 am

If you think that having a critical opinion of religion is akin to insulting people who CANNOT HELP who they are (gay people, myself being one of them) then I have to declare cognitive dissonance.
[edited this paragraph - marked as irrelevant]
Not all Christians are like that, but if you didn't notice Peter was addressing the social destructive fundamentalist Christianity. And fundamentalism in -all- forms is nothing but dangerous. It can never be constructive because it is like unto a pillar of salt.
If anybody does try to hurt Peter, it will only strengthen this Movement by making it more holographic than it is already becoming. That is why there is no failing for this Movement, as you have suggested there will be, because in the long run there is going to be no reliance on any director or leader but chapters all over the world that are only slightly interdependent.
If you want to make analogies, please make ones that relates with Peter's critique on religion because the 'gay' one just doesn't fit. And that's coming from someone who has gone through all the bullshit 'you can change' arguments from anti-gayists.
Brenton Eccles said this on February 11, 2010 at 12:09 pm | Reply

That 'gayness' of yours is it social conditioning or genetic ?
You are well aware I am not homophobic also, my point was just an example of how offensive things are when stated in public to categories of people.
I will bring this issue of conditioning and genetics up in another thread perhaps, because it is unecessary for you and I to continue this issue here.
Likewise the issue of religion is for another thread, but I will say peters statements about jesus not existing are highly offensive to religious people, anyone with half a brain cell can see that. Though they are not offensive to me personally.
I also wouldnt wish or want anyone to hurt peter that would be a very low thing for a person to do, its highly unlikely anyone will consider him important or a threat, this is just his own and his fans paranoid ego tripping.
Let me add this too I do believe people are certainly allowed to be equally offensive back to his beliefs and ideologies in response to his spurious claims.
I will leave this discussion here with your last comment because it is becoming some what detracting from the topic.
All the best
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Reply

The accusation that "peters statements about jesus not existing are highly offensive to religious people" is pretty silly because large organizations and many authors have contended it for a long time.
You have for example, regardless of anybody's point of view on it, The Jesus Seminar. There were no fundies with guns there.
[anticultist EDIT: But notice here he argues that fundamentalists are no threat to anyone dismissing jesus and religion, where as above he argued that fundamentalists were a danger to peter joseph, this brenton eccles guy just likes to argue for the sake of it regardless of whether he contradicts himself from post to post]
There is never any excuse, ever, to physically harm somebody. Even if they are attacking you. The humane solution is to get out of the situation.
Should those who accept the theory of evolution as scientific fact be physically attacking by literalist Christians because the Bible says God created man as he is now? No, they shouldn't - and to maintain otherwise is ludicrous.
I should add that I generally haven't a problem with this particular article. Ultimately Peter's identity will be uncovered as the Movement grows because freaks will do things like follow him home, etc,.
That's really inevitable, and I'm sure he cannot afford body-guards. Though, one hopes in the future he will choose to if necessary.
[anticultist EDIT: back to peter josephs safety from fundamentalists again]
Brenton Eccles said this on February 11, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Ultimately peter is nobody [as am I], he is just a boy who liked music, and then upon becoming a slightly more informed man decided to be publicly political and upon realising he was in hot water decided to withdraw and hide his identity.
Should he have the illusion he is of importance he would be fantasising, and this is what is silly.
Particularly compared to all the scholars in this world who have publicly stood up and taken the full force of every reaction to their claims, under their own name and in full view.
Though Peter and Jacque both give no credit to academia and just call it credentialism, but hey reading academics books and teaching yourself from them is ok right?
If these academics did not study and write these books people like Peter and Jacque [self appointed experts with no credentials] would be clueless, funny that isn't it !
Yes you [brenton] are correct, peters identity would inevitably be found out, thankfully it was through innocent web trawling and nothing illegal or violent.
This conversation between you and I is over.
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 12:38 pm

Bottom line, Peter J. Merola can't have his cake and eat it too by running an international "movement" of hundreds of thousands and not disclosing his identity. Fame is not a one way street.
The same goes for Fresco and Meadows. They can't exploit hundreds of thousands of people under the notion that they are going to change humanity, make money off them, and then not disclose their financial information.
gillian said this on February 11, 2010 at 5:09 pm | Reply

'Truth is never easy to swallow, but these people [ZM VP] are in need of a Tracheotomy' Anticultist [2010]
anticultist said this on February 11, 2010 at 5:26 pm | Reply

I'm the anon who sent this information to anticultist. The first thing I want to point out is that it somewhat offensive and ridiculous for people to think he is in some great danger of being attacked by Christians. This isn't 1930′s Alabama, it's the 21st century. If PJ is in "danger", it is more likely from the crazy people who think he works for the Illuminati and that sort of thing, but I really doubt anything would happen more than a crazy phone call. People like Christopher Hitchens don't have a problem with speaking against religion publicly, and people like Alex Jones don't have a problem talking about conspiracy theories, it is just egotistical to think PJ is any different.
But the main reason why I don't care about respecting PJ privacy is because when did he ever respect the people he made conspiracy theories about? In the 9/11 part of Zeitgeist, he showed dozens of clips of people saying they heard explosions or bombs in the buildings. Did he ask these people permission to use these clips? Did he check to see that he was representing these people correctly, and they really thought there were literally bombs? I know that after videos like Loose Change came out, some of these people said publicly that their words were taken out of context and they just meant that "it felt like a bomb -but it wasn't one". On the internet people started saying these people were paid off, some of them had their lives disrupted by 9/11 truthers calling them and stuff. So should we feel sorry for Peter Joseph if the same thing happens to him? What about that guy who was on the phone when the tower fell and is heard screaming "OH GOD!!!" in Zeitgeist. Imagine how that guy's family feels , his voice it forever being used to sell Peter Joseph's message. Imagine if one of your family members died on 9/11, one thing you might do work on some kind of charity to help out the kids of other victims or something. Lots of people did stuff like this and they should be commended. Now imagine if you saw Peter Joseph using the audio clip of your family member's death to sell his shitty movement that pretends to be some kind of charity saving the world but doesn't do jack shit. Imagine having to see Peter Joseph's stupid fucking face as he talks about his z-days creating awareness, while most of the time he sits at home and hides his real name. Wouldn't it be the ultimate kick in the teeth to work hard trying to help people, and then see these stupid Zeitgeist followers acting morally superior to you while they "spread the word" by giving out DVD's that turn a loved one's death into a statement? I hope that Peter Joseph Merola himself finds this message and reads it, in fact I challenge anyone in his movement to post it on the Zeitgeist forum.
anon said this on February 11, 2010 at 6:13 pm | Reply

Nicely expressed, and I agree they are profiteering off emotional appeals, and using matters for their own personal advantage, without any thoughts about other peoples views and wishes.
These guys dont stop to think that other people may have valid counter arguments to their movement and ideals, and instantly believe they have the moral high ground without considering what we are saying.
The likes of us are considered, trolls, shills, agent provocateurs and other such pathetic paranoid shite.
What they dont stop to consider [using a rational mind] is that we are ordinary people who want whats best for the world as much as they do, only we see things differently and want to go about it in a much more rational manner.
All their fanatacism does is push them further and further away from reality, it seperates them from ordinary people, and shows them for being the cult we all think they are.
All of this secrecy about Peter Josephs identity, and secrecy about their financial transparency is absolutely needless, if they are as honest and good intended as they say, this information should of been readily available from the start.
screw tzm screw tvp and screw their secrecy
anticultist said this on February 12, 2010 at 5:29 pm | Reply

> I challenge anyone in his movement to post it on the Zeitgeist forum.
Without mentioning his name on their forum, I did mention that its been mentioned on their own IRC/Text channel the last two days, and the wiki has a link to the chatlogs. Considering that I saw moderators talking about not editing this information out of the logs, I assume its still there..
I suppose I risk a ban, it depends on whether you think I broke the rules by telling folk there was a copy of his name in their own systems logs or not is a crime..
Nanos said this on February 12, 2010 at 7:28 pm | Reply

For anyone interested in reading the irc shenanigans and mention of Peters real name in there here are the links.
http://pritisni.ctrl-alt-del.si/zeitlogs/index.php
http://pritisni.ctrl-alt-del.si/zeitlogs/ZeitgeistMovementLogs.zip
anticultist said this on February 12, 2010 at 7:37 pm | Reply

I have provided an edited transcript of yesterdays irc chat log where discussions of Peter Joseph Merola's real name occurred in the official zeitgeist movement channel.
Both users were promptly banned under the reason given they were invading a persons privacy, revealing details about them and trolling. Also pay attention how all the moderators suddenly appear and log in, VTV, Azzy, Apollo, Thunder, they just pop in and silence, ignore, avoid questions and ban.
Since all of us here are aware these details are not private and have been placed online by peter joseph and eric, this is not something the moderators of irc/teamspeak can claim as fact based.
Therefore the banning reasons are illegitimate, this brings into question why they wish users to not know peter josephs real name.
We all know that Alex Jones, Stephen Hawkins and others are happily living their public lives free from secret agents shooting them everyday and fundamentalists beating them with crucifixes.
So why is peter joseph suddenly so sensitive and afraid ?
What makes him so damn important to keep secret from his own fan base ?
The users asking and discussing you should pay attention to are Viper, SDivinorum, gundhalinu, Apollo, VTV, Azzy, Thunder.
Here is a link to the edited version of yesterdays log:
link
Yesterdays full log:
link
And part of todays log, which i will update if anything else ocurs:
link
anticultist said this on February 12, 2010 at 8:46 pm
A interview of PJ talking about some of this stuff called "Who is Peter Joseph" was just was put up on youtube:



[EDIT Anticultist -
The next 3 minutes 30 seconds of the next clip he goes on about his finances and a bit more about why he hid his identity. Then his ramble about economics and other stuff.
I will leave the rest of the videos off this page for anyone interested as its just Peter rambling on about zeitgeist and his ideas about society after these two.
You can watch the rest here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/charlesrobinsonfilms ]
anon said this on February 15, 2010 at 2:03 am | Reply

I find it interesting that this interview was recorded & prepared a few months ago by charlesrobinsonfilms yet it has only gone online in the last 8 hours [Feb 14 -15th], Though I am sensible enough to allow time for editing and making the final cut over the last two months.
Conveniently though this video appeared just after we have started promoting this information to the zeitgeist members.
The user 'Charles Robinson, a NY student' Joined youtube:
13 February 2010
And his video has the same name in his titles as this blog 'who is peter joseph?'.
Also the user only has that Peter Joseph set of videos on youtube.
Still odder they have set up a private website which is costing them $9 a month with the same name of the video 'whoispeterjoseph.com' and hosted these videos only there, which appears by its Record was created is on 2010-02-12, and giving the interview away freely at their own cost.
I am just thinking out loud here , but thats either a big coincidence or perhaps someone has been reading this blog ?
I am happy to go with coincidence though right now.
anticultist said this on February 15, 2010 at 2:58 am | Reply

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/who-is-peter-joseph-part-2/
A new thread about this post.
anticultist said this on February 17, 2010 at 1:53 am | Reply

[...] http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/who-is-peter-joseph/ [...]
Who is Peter Joseph? Part 2 « Zeitgeist is a mind heist - venus project is a scam ? said this on February 16, 2010 at 11:57 am | Reply

Eric Merola was also in a short film called 'Merde':
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1619378/
Here it is:
http://garrafilms.com/main/?page_id=173
Funny stuff.
anon said this on February 18, 2010 at 8:17 am | Reply

Thats fucking terrible, thanks I was looking for that when I put up his imdb link, at least I now know that its absolute merde !.
anticultist said this on February 18, 2010 at 12:18 pm | Reply

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=60&id=230522#230547
"in a world where lip service is the norm, aren't you ready for some real problem solving?"
TVP isn't. Despite what they claim.
prometheuspan said this on February 22, 2010 at 11:52 am | Reply

Alot of the critics in my rather disatorous attempt(if I could call it an attempt looking back at it - damn AS) to at least make them aware that addresing the problems posed should be priority one for Roxanne,Jacque and Peter made a good point in saying that we dont seem to be doing anything here other than whining.So far Peter has simply derided this as character bashing when in fact the longer he ignores this and brushes it under the carpet rather than actually ignoring it(like with noam chomsky). Really he is just a bad leader if hes unable to respond to even the most basic of questions laid here(and most of them are important) then he seriously has no intention of taking this mainstream because this blog is a test.Its testing him on his ability to deal with the three pillars he'll face out in the real world(the political pundit represented by me - the investigative journalist representive by anticultist - and the academic/expert represented by prometheuspan)the reality is this groups has NO hope whatesover of making it in real world if it keep pushing everything under the carpet.Im aware sie of have made snide remarks but as I said more these questions are not answered the more difficult it is for us to take them seriously anymore.If Peter wants to be a man and face the criticism hes been getting and explain himself he's more than welcome to engage us in an actual debate.....lord knows we are.
Shane Nolan said this on April 30, 2010 at 7:33 pm | Reply

of course theyre gonna pass this all off as character bashing, its easier to ignore all the important points and questions made everywhere on this entire set of blogs if they do that.
Denial is a very useful tool for ignoramouses like peter and his followers .
They have managed to avoid dealing with any of the questions and claims made by around 20 individuals here so far. I suspect they will continue, and perhaps at best they will write some long winded self serving piece about how nothing here is relevant and they have already disproven everything here yada yada yada.
None of which would be remotely accurate.
I dont think they realise I/we want the world to be better as much if not more than they do, but not with them arseholes runnning it or taking any credit for it.
I actually want Peter/Jacque & Roxanne to get more public just so they can finally be proven to be a bunch of pretenders and we can all then finally move on and get this shit started for real.
anticultist said this on April 30, 2010 at 8:38 pm | Reply

"I actually want Peter/Jacque & Roxanne to get more public just so they can finally be proven to be a bunch of pretenders and we can all then finally move on and get this shit started for real."
taking them down is about starting it for real and allowing their users and participants to see the difference.
:)
prometheuspan said this on May 1, 2010 at 1:20 am | Reply

"I challenge anyone in his movement to post it on the Zeitgeist forum."
I did like almost a year ago:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&id=116202&catid=231#116202
Actually, Jordan Maxwell exposed his full name when Peter Joseph's first film came out and I only caught on it too it right after Zeitgeist: Addendum came out after listening to an old George Noory interview with him interviewing Jordan Maxwell on his other projects. The video there doesn't work no more, but if you look up all the Jordan Maxwell interviews with Coast to Coast, I'm sure you can find it. I don't feel like pulling it up again though, it would be time-consuming.
In the TZM Forums, they usually bash you or ban you. Back then, they were bashing me and my intent back then for that thread wasn't even to expose him.
But yeah, it was only a matter of time before people started to get curious to who he was. I mean, when he did those interviews after the first film came out, no one knew what he looked like except those who he was close to of course. But what did PJ expect?
He released the first film publicly and live in NY under by his former alias "PJ Merola". He didn't think people would catch on? It's not a privacy issue if the person releases their own information to the public.
I always wanted to hear that interview too with him and Laitman, just would be interesting to hear what was talked about in detail:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=7&id=169475
As far as the title "Who Is Peter Joseph?" could have been taken here as well:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=7&id=9929
I thought that was a common question.
Even though you have a Q&A of him, people still want information about a person matching with a face. I think that was done here crystal clear.
As far as the reasoning for him to use 9/11 clips in such a way, to him it was probably influenced due to being in New York when 9/11 took place. But I can still understand how those families must feel... Used.
Two of the IRC logs aren't working now, but I doubt that you're making up the stories that happened involving people being banned for mentioning Peter's full name or finding out all of the sudden.
And as I was reading through the FACEBOOK comments here, I couldn't help but point out that he created a FACEBOOK account and posted it as news:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=248755
Now, if you were worried about your safety truly, would you make an account where people can look through your connections and get closer to your friends/family/co-workers? I wouldn't if I was a creator of a social-movement. But if he complains about getting more threats, that is clearly his own fault.
So yeah, we'll see how this plays out.
BranManFloMore said this on May 2, 2010 at 2:26 am | Reply

I/we provided this information and since I/we did I/we have been given hate mail about being responsible for Peters safety.
But a video thats just been posted shows that Jordan Maxwell exposed him long before anyone did, this was on coast to coast back in 2008 with a huge audience. This was originally on youtube till the zeitgeisters complained to have it removed.
http://www.4shared.com/video/p7ay2-gP/Jordan_Maxwell_Exposes_Peter_J.html
The quote in the info of the video when it was stored on yoputube stated:
Anonymous has done the research and noticed that Jordan Maxwell exposed Peter Joseph Merola's name before anyone else that TZM is accusing is exposing his personal information now. It is now up and now everyone knows.
We are Anonymous.
We are legion.
We do not forget.
We do not forgive.
Expect us.
And I have to agree with them here, it is about time you fanatics started doing your research like these guys do, Jordan Maxwell ! I mean can you get any bigger conspiracy theorist exposing him !
You have wrongly accused us of the responsibiliy. Peter gave his name to Jordan Maxwell, Maxwell said it on a hugely popular radio show.
Peter Merola put his own information online everywhere as did his brother Eric Merola, its time you fuckers stopped putting the blame on us and blame Peter himself for trying to hide his details after putting them out for people to know.
anticultist said this on May 21, 2010 at 11:13 pm | Reply

oh and while we are at it, this video just outright shows peter Joseph based his entire shit on Jordan Maxwells work, he admits it straight up plain as day, and even goes to the point of hero worshipping the guy.
anticultist said this on May 21, 2010 at 11:46 pm | Reply

I'm glad someone set the record straight.
BranManFloMore said this on May 22, 2010 at 2:07 am

In a interview from 2007 with Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery, Peter Joseph talked about how great Alex Jones and Jordan Maxwell were, but in a newer video says that he really didn't know who Alex was when he used his footage for the movie and trys to downplay Maxwell's influence too. The interview was deleted off youtube a few months ago and I cant find it anywhere else though.
Sky said this on May 22, 2010 at 5:18 am

Thats Peter Joseph Merolas way, he lies when it suits him.
anticultist said this on May 22, 2010 at 2:45 pm

Hahah, it's getting really desperate in here.
'I saw a video that doesn't exist anymore and it showed Peter blah blah...' And then replies as if this were fact. I mean REALLY? Wow! I knew you guys were desperate for gossip, but this is just... Wow.
anticultist said : the video showed peter saying he had never even heard of alex jones, when in fact he had stated earlier on that he was fully aware of him and had used him as a basis for some of his work. Thats called Bullshitting or lieing Joseph
For the record, Peter always cites his sources. You talk like he's kept it a secret that he's used Maxwell's work, despite being clearly written in the transcript & source info for the films, the numerous interviews he's given where he speaks well of Maxwell, Maxwell's voice being very clear & obvious for all to discern, etc. Maxwell himself speaks well of Peter...
anticultist said : Maxwell is another conspiracy theorist so if he speaks highly of him or not is unimportant, because hes just as whacky as Merola
Did you really want this blog to become a tabloid where you have to invent scandal to get more readers? Here's one for you: "Brangelina was caught winking at Peter Joseph in NYC! Shocker!"
anticultist said : Grow up birds nest your triviliasing makes you look like an utter dumb ass
Sarcasm aside, it seems the only "fanatics" I've seen are you guys. Look in the mirror much? haha
anticultist said : of course you would say this because its easier to point the finger at others showing the way. You forget it only takes a quick google on you to see how fanatical you are posting your rhetorical zeitgeist shit everywhere
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=joseph+matthew+zeitgeist&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=7bb0ea9277f0b52
now step along birds nest you aren't welcome round here
Joseph Matthew said this on May 23, 2010 at 6:03 am | Reply

Joseph Matthew:
"I saw a video that doesn't exist anymore and it showed Peter blah blah...' And then replies as if this were fact. I mean REALLY? Wow! I knew you guys were desperate for gossip, but this is just... Wow."
It is fact. Are you this immature spreading awareness for your movement when people don't get it? Do you have a fit often like this? I must say, you make TZM look more embarrassing.
It may look like gossip since that interview with Jason Bermas and Peter Joseph is gone, but it was talked about before - people have watched that interview before and knew how much Peter Joseph praised Alex Jones:
http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/skeptoid-zeitgeist-the-movie-myths-and-motivations#post-2452
But I guess Sky is making up things too huh?
This blog is not a tabloid, it's all informative about Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist Movement. And for what the rest you have said, you're making my head hurt.
BranManFloMore said this on May 23, 2010 at 11:58 am

Its hilarious, this video was even linked on their own wiki pages. Yes we have backed up that as evidence as well in case they decide to delete it :)
anticultist said this on May 23, 2010 at 12:26 pm

Thanks BranMan, though I'm not sure that linking to one of my other posts is going to convince Joseph that I'm telling the truth.
Sky said this on May 23, 2010 at 7:58 pm

It's worth a try and you're welcome Sky. Oh wow, I done bust'd a rhyme.
BranManFloMore said this on May 23, 2010 at 9:31 pm | Reply

You people against the TZM look more ridiculous than the TZM people themselves. Reading these posts are hilarious! Keep 'em coming. I love your circular reasoning about everything. You use your conspiracies to condemn conspiracies, lmao!
Jason W. said this on June 14, 2010 at 5:22 pm | Reply

There is no conspiracy here what so ever. There is mere speculation and due to timing, content and titling it is worthy of consideration.
anticultist said this on June 14, 2010 at 6:01 pm | Reply

There's also a youtube video of Peter Joseph when he didn't correct someone who called him "Doctor"... now I don't know about you,
but in my book that's straight-up antichrist dildo worhsip woman hitler stuff right there.
I know his type, he's this navel-gazing hipster, and zeitgeist was just a hobby of his - if I was younger, I'd call up my buddies and we'd beat him up with a bat, make him our bitch and then dump his raped wop ass in little italy.
If there's anything I hate, that's immigrants and people being uppity about capitalism. If you work and wait for your turn, you'll be rich... there's nothing wrong with the system, the wrong one is you mister Pee-Jay Merola.
BabeRuth said this on June 25, 2010 at 4:35 am | Reply

ok I agree with some of your sentiments but the raped ass, beaten body and stuff is a little too far for me:D
But yeah the guy is a prick and should be given no serious airtime at all because hes of no value to anyone.
EDIT: I can now add that this was me priming Babe Ruth to expose themselves more before I showed them the link I had already read which they posted on zeitgeist forum presented below
anticultist said this on June 25, 2010 at 10:28 am | Reply

If you're smart anticultist, you'll delete this.
NWO Agent said this on June 25, 2010 at 3:42 pm | Reply

@NWO Agent: I am smart and you know what I will do.
I will leave it up here for people to see the lengths that zeitgeisters will go to, to infiltrate oppositional views and try to turn them into perceptably aggressive groups.
I replied to their [Babe Ruths] post and stated that violence was not needed, they were the one who mentioned violence not I, since they are probably the guy 'Super stylin' who made the post in the Re:Peter Joseph thread about infiltrating oppositonal groups here:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=269881&limit=10&limitstart=10#270127
SuperStylin said:
I've found on another site that some Anon guy uncoveder Peter Joseph's full real name and other info, and it's pretty convincing and all that,
but then the entire discussion devolves into bashing PJ, Jacques, Roxanne and all which Z stands for. It's all pretty much disgusting ad hominem stuff,
but it's written in a way that could be potentially damaging to the Zeitgeist movement.
In any case, I just wanted to say that IMO the best strategy against this sort of douchebaggery would be to one-up the haters.
When confronted with this type of fanatical viciousness against a good ideal, you just join them... it might sound dumb,
but if you join the bashing, and drive it to ridiculous levels, you completely strip them of any semblance of validity.
The elites have been doing this for ages. Whenever there's a protest against, for example, Bilderberg,
they infiltrate the protesters with a few undercover agents who do their best to escalate the protest into a violent riot.
You see, if you're clear on that the opposition's stance is worthless, you infiltrate them with a few agents who
will play ultraviolent douchebags who will stink up their place, and nobody will want to listen to someone associated with
violent morons.
This is a good example to show others how fail zeitgeisters are, and what incredible lengths they go to defend their cult
And regarding this post in the same thread:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=269881&limit=10&limitstart=20#270168
Hellgorama said: @superstylin, I think you've come across anticultist's blog. He's just like that because he used to be a former member, but he trolled here and got banned. If he can't move on with his life, then just goes to show what a sad person he is.
I was never banned and I never 'trolled' their forum, this guy knows nothing about me or who I was on their forum.
anticultist said this on June 25, 2010 at 4:18 pm

@Babe Ruth
Well you fell enough into the trap for me to show you were infiltrating the blog:
see above for my evidence against you.
Just so you know I do not agree with your threats of violence, your racism or your christianity bullshit.
Your attempts to pervert this blog have failed, and you have been exposed as the charlatan zeitgeist cult member that you are.
Congratulations
anticultist said this on June 25, 2010 at 4:54 pm | Reply

I am so relieved that someone intelligent finally put forth a worth while post. A factual comment was long over due. This is precisely the point of the movement in itself. You have proved with disapproval. I am an uneducated kid with no economic, religious, social, nor political understanding, but the fact of the matter is people like you make me and the ethical population sad. I hope you steer clear of your own reflection. Deterministically, I am sad your parents raised you the way they did, but we are all products of our society, obviously. I truly hope with all of my heart that you go through some sort of moral revolution realizing the reprocutions of your actions, and I hope you realize this before your forced to.
peace42 said this on August 28, 2011 at 7:00 am | Reply

Forced by peaceful people like you, true colours coming through now aren't they. Tinpot dictators everywhere in the ranks of Zeitgeist, whack job central.
anticultist said this on October 22, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Thought I would add an addition to this while I was thinking about it:
See original image with his company name on it from his original zeitgeist production flyer:

Above image can be verified here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=160531&mesg_id=161145
The following listing his company on a bbc radio show:
Quote:10.54
Bach: Chorale, 'Ich hab' mein Sach' Gott heimgestellt
PJ Merola (marimba)
Album: JS Bach on marimba
Gentle Machine Productions GMP001 tr. 3 (2.11)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/abachchristmas/pip/v32q2/
The following listing his company name on another track of his featured on marimba players website:
Quote:Bach, J.S. / Merola, P.J. Violin Sonata No. 1 in G minor BMW 1001 Gentle Machine Productions
http://www.marimba.org/en/modules/tinyd0/index.php?id=5
The name 'Gentle Machine Productions' is Peter Merolas' Limited Liability Company which is a registered company in the area of Kings in the state of New York, this is the business he originally set up to release his renditions of Bachs cantata on his marimba, but has since evolved to be his zeitgeist business.
He often quotes it as being GMP or G.M.P or GMP LLC, this not to be confused with James Coymans company of the same name, though that one was up for debate a while back.
http://appext9.dos.state.ny.us/corp_public/CORPSEARCH.ENTITY_INFORMATION?p_nameid=3232416&p_corpid=3222995&p_entity_name=GENTLE&p_name_type=%25&p_search_type=PARTIAL&p_srch_results_page=6
Selected Entity Name: GENTLE MACHINE PRODUCTIONS LLC
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: GENTLE MACHINE PRODUCTIONS LLC
Initial DOS Filing Date: JUNE 24, 2005
County: KINGS
Jurisdiction: NEW YORK
Entity Type: DOMESTIC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE
Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity)
C/O NATIONAL REGISTERED AGENTS, INC.
875 AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS
SUITE 501
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10001
Registered Agent
NATIONAL REGISTERED AGENTS, INC.
875 AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS
SUITE 501
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10001
anticultist said this on July 28, 2010 at 10:55 pm | Reply

The world is flat! White people are superior, due to God's liking. Anglican and Native American interaction was peaceful. Mankind is fine under the monetary system, because supply is as infinite as demand.
peace42 said this on August 28, 2011 at 8:10 am | Reply

And you are clearly deranged.
anticultist said this on October 22, 2011 at 1:35 pm

[...] Who is Peter Joseph ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:10 pm | Reply

[...] Who is Peter Joseph ? [...]
Zeitgeist Blogs: Zeitgeist is a Mind Heist « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on November 10, 2010 at 9:12 pm | Reply

[...] [...]
Salvia, Zeitgeist and the Tucson Shooter : The Other McCain said this on January 13, 2011 at 6:44 am | Reply

[...] Marimba player/day trader Peter Joseph Merola producer of "Zeitgeist" series and owner of "the zeitgeist movement" [...]
Zeitgeist Movement Celebrating Jared Loughner Publicity « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on January 20, 2011 at 2:49 am | Reply

[...] Marimba player/day trader Peter Joseph Merola producer of "Zeitgeist" series and owner of "the zeitgeist movement" [...]
Zeitgeist Movement Celebrating Jared Loughner Publicity « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on January 20, 2011 at 2:49 am | Reply

[...] http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/who-is-peter-joseph/#comment-1299 [...]
Gentle Machine Productions « Zeitgeist Movement Exposed said this on January 26, 2011 at 6:02 pm | Reply

Hi, after revweing this blog, I clearly noticed only one single aspect above all. It focus purely on producing intrigue. And even if what is posted here is true it is completly irrelevant, for the issues aproached by ZTM are in fact truthful and correspond to our world reality. sorry about my english as it is not my native language.
JPQ said this on January 28, 2011 at 11:02 am | Reply

Its all fact, this has been long established now, this blog was posted in February 2010. Nearly a year has passed by now and this blog is the definitive collection of information regarding who Peter joseph is.
The zeitgeist movement is a farce, noone takes it seriously other than boys who are unemployed have little education and a few grandads.
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/thezeitgeistmovement-com-demographics/
And dont forget paranoid conspiracy theorist wanna be hit men like it also.
anticultist said this on January 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm | Reply

Is this a real blog or just hair-dressing saloon gossip?
After reading some info about zeitgeist and this blog, i reached 2 conclusions:
1. TZM focus on solutions, you focus on destroying people's reputation and honor;
2. ZTM's theories can somewhat be proved, i doubt same thing can be be said about the speculation presented here.
Please enlighten me if i'm wrong.
Rau said this on January 28, 2011 at 10:04 pm | Reply

Consider yourself enlightened I have allowed your post to be public and laughed at.
anticultist said this on January 29, 2011 at 10:15 am | Reply

You're so kind to share Your blog is so disappointing. You note how clever you must be for finding out Peter's real identity... not a difficult task. Do you blame this man for trying to throw a little smoke down his trail. There are too many of you loonies trying to discredit his work.
Two... you point your finger at him and anyone who fits your brand of alternative theories and just assume everyone will agree that this is bad... just because it's alternative?? WTF? Don't you get that we need alternatives dude? Take a look around. Between the alternative idealogies proposed by people like Peter, Jaque, and others like David Suzuki, Paul Kingsnorth and the Dark Mountain Project, there is enough merit to seriously consider for the future because let's face it, what we're doing now, isn't working.
I honestly feel sorry for you because you don't appear to possess the vision, imagination or courage to consider something 'alternative'... something that ultimately may produce a much more sustainable way of life.
However, I sincerely wish you luck with your progression of thinking.
planetintelligence said this on January 29, 2011 at 9:44 pm | Reply

This guy seems to think he knows me.
How funny it is to have internet people come along and assume they know the slightest thing about me.
No Plane intelligence please trot along.
anticultist said this on January 30, 2011 at 12:37 am | Reply

[...] Peter Joseph is a 30-something marimba player who's dabbled in advertising and in finance. Its an unadvertised fact that the first Zeitgeist film began as reel footage alongside a percussion performance in NYC. Joseph's great error is in letting his aesthetic preferences determine his political positions. I can understand this psychological dynamic and might have taken a Zeitgeist turn myself... i.e. by using the metaphorical imagery of Overwhelm to construct an "Overwhelm" political-propaganda video, rope in activist-minded listeners, etc. But that would be unfair to both rational philosophical debate and to art itself. Tagged with: Film, Internet, Movements [...]
"Sky Made of Glass... Made for a Real World?" « Shoestring Century said this on January 30, 2011 at 9:24 am | Reply

"This guy seems to think he knows me.
How funny it is to have internet people come along and assume they know the slightest thing about me.
No Plane intelligence please trot along."
Also when you talk about yourself in the third person on blog spots putting yourself on a pedestal in a public forum, it shows that you have a slightly paranoid sense of your own world, unable to trust in others. It's sad and I feel sorry that I can't help you
"Consider yourself enlightened I have allowed your post to be public and laughed at"
the only person laughing is you, alone, in front of a screen. I'm sorry
photeki said this on March 19, 2011 at 11:09 am | Reply

And the hundreds of people who pass through here daily, I have a dashboard with browser numbers of thread viewers plankton.
Sheesh you probably could'nt help yourself to a free meal, let alone anyone else on the planet.
anticultist said this on April 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm | Reply

why does this thread exist at all? why is it that we all feel that "character assassinations" are more important that verifiable reality? "Oh my! I Hate that Obama guy, let's pretend he was born outside of the USA and create threads to convince us all of that! I am WAY too upset that a black man is president, so instead of addressing that racist anger, I will pretend that he was never born in the USA! YAY! Problem solved!
Same here - you can invent all sorts of associations, Joseph was related to Stalin, or Peter was related to Ghandi, or Zeitgeist was actually the work of David Axelrod, Obama's chief advisor.
Did you know that David Axelrod was the author of the first Zeitgeist movie? No, you didn't because no different than how fictional this thread is, the fiction behind David Axelrod making "Zeitgeist" is actually truth.
David Axelrod, the head of Obama's first and 2nd campaign actually made the film series "ZEITGEIST".
Enjoy that bit of internet thread...
Roger C said this on June 15, 2012 at 12:52 am | Reply

Enjoy ?
You just made yourself look like an idiot.
There is no speculation or character assassination in this thread, everything posted here is verifiable and accurate.
This thread was made long before Peter Merola made himself public, and for that reason it has been useful to people who wanted to know who the dude was and what he wasn't telling people.
Secondly what the fuck are you talking about with all your random outbursts of Stalin, racism and wotnot? Are you trying to tell us you are a communist racist or something ?
And lastly David Axelrod the first person to write zeitgeist ? are you being intentionally stupid or don't you realise you are? Completely fucking different zeitgeist you are talking about you inane plank. Next you will be telling me the smashing pumpkins wrote zeitgeist first too !
The zeitgeist original performance we are discussing here was music made by Peter Merola with a script about conspiracy theories spoken over it. This was performed as a live musical 'art performance' in New York, this then became the dvd movie he uploaded online. So that should be enough to squash your Axelrod fantasy.
Axelrod had nothing to do with Peter Joseph Merola or the first zeitgeist movie, sheesh you are an amateur at this fact finding business aren't ya.
anticultist said this on June 15, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Reply

A case was filed in LA court today, I'm guessing against you... Here is the basic info.
Peter Joseph Merola; Joseph Alexopoulos; Douglas Mallette
v.
John Doe
8/6/2012 BC489727 Khan
"Libel in a series of Internet postings calling plaintiffs' Zeitgeist Moverment a cult that encourages violence.
Filed by Doug Iler"
Joe said this on August 7, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Reply

Since no one here has made the claim they incite violence, at least not to my knowledge, It is likely aimed elsewhere at other blogs that popped up after this one. There were some more inflammatory ones that occurred, that dealt with Peter and Douglas on levels that were never covered here.
Plus this blog page is not even being kept up to date as you can see by the time it has taken to read and approve your comment, it has lain dormant for quite some time now. If there were any issues with information being incorrect here, it would only have taken an email from Peter to detail what the issue was and it would have been reworded if it was inaccurate. There really is no problem with zeitgeist any more from my perspective, it is just an internet fad that fell off the edge of the planet years ago to me.
A point that should be mentioned however, there are numerous members and ex members who have threatened people online. Of course that doesn't mean Peter promotes it, and I certainly would not claim he did either, but these people do it in the name of his movement without his knowledge.
anticultist said this on December 14, 2012 at 4:54 am | Reply

A woman once called the cops to report a man exposing himself in front of a window. The cops arrived and noticed her window was facing the lake. She said, "If you climb out my window and walk along the ledge to the corner, look down one floor, there he is that filthy man." This reminds me of the tireless efforts your posters expended to "out" Peter Joseph and his last name. This blog is replete with the immature jealousy 20-somethings have of others who have found fame and fortune while their own names remain unsung.
And yet who can say the anonymous Anticultist criticizing other anonymous cultists is either morally or ethically challenged? Catty perhaps. In fact I appreciate the antithetical charges you present because I have just finished watching "Who is Peter Joseph" on video and was impressed by the eloquence and vitality in one who is no academic yet can brilliantly encapsulate so much in a short presentation of what others have spent lifetimes trying to explain. And so your input is a refreshing antidote for those who fall in worship at first sight. You just may have saved me for now.
JoeHig said this on September 23, 2012 at 7:02 am | Reply

What's the point of this blog post? Lol. I am really. Peter Joseph Merola is Peter Joseph. So what? I mean if you don't agree with the guy why are you wasting time and space bringing up something that doesn't really matter, instead of talking about the actual concepts he proposes that you don't agree with? It's totally OBVIOUS from your first statement that PJ and PJM are the same guy. So what? And then you have to show us pictures, and link after link, and videos, and pics of his brother......WE GET IT. Peter Joseph is Peter Joseph Merola. So what? Maybe if Peter J. Merola was a CIA agent or assassin or something other than Oooooo (do you know who he reeeally is) a marimba musician!! If you disagree with the guy, offer intelligent arguments that prove his concepts invaluable. Who the hell cares if his "real" last name is Merola and he plays the marimba.
Cai Noble said this on January 10, 2013 at 8:47 am | Reply

This post is dated years ago , the reason it exists in the first place was due to him hiding his identity and image so no one knew who he was. This was made to present to everyone who he actually was as thousands of people wanted to actually know.
And as far as debating his points that has been done throughout the entire series of blogs, you should try looking a little further than the surface layer. Typical hit and run poster who does an internet search and then takes offence to the first blog post he comes across.
anticultist said this on January 10, 2013 at 11:26 am | Reply

Gun owners in the USA

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_own_a_gun_in_the_USA

USA population

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopulation&met=population&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=how+many+people+in+the+usa

375,000 [of course Peter wants to promote and recruit more fanatics than this]

Having no army is not yet a guarantee that forces will act non-violently and preventively, or that they will help creating a culture of peace to transform conflict, it is though a strong incentive.

Statistics with the numbers of police officers and soldiers, compared to the numbers of the full population in a given country do not exist yet.

Military equipment and budgets are not always public.

Black Markets are unknown.

Countries without armies are all democratic countries [But Peter says democracy is unproductive and doesn't exist] so how does he plan on demilitarization without diplomacy and democracy ?.

marketing : the act of buying or selling in a market
advertising : paid announcements
Your saying the ZM is pushing a product, what product are they selling? Is english your first language?
EDIT ANTICULTIST:
Is English your first language?
If so read the rest of the blog this has been covered long ago, start here:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/the-art-of-advertising-within-the-zeitgeist-movement/
lisdhf said this on February 25, 2010 at 4:18 am | Reply

PETER JOSEPH WILL SAVE EVEN YOU, YOU DUMB MORONS.
john said this on February 25, 2010 at 7:02 am | Reply

Jesus freak
For those of you unfamiliar with the cretin above me, he is the user John Bale from TZM's Facebook group.
He is a highly strung and unstable character who attacks anyone with oppositional views, also he creates numerous fake facebook accounts and attacks people. Likewise he stalks people and their friend lists to gain access to their personal information.
He has actually physically threatened people, even to the point of threatening to kill them, I kid you not !
There is evidence of this from various Facebook users in Beyond Zeitgeist, Beyond the venus project if you are in doubt.
anticultist said this on March 9, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Reply

Funny, the only replies we have had about this post are ad hom attacks that we simply had to deny.
one idiot even tried to spam insulting posts with new usernames and the same ip [spastic], then he made a page attacking the poster of this information elsewhere.
Its funny how you have this so called humanitarian and peaceful movement filled with horrible argumentative teenage pricks, who act tough on the internet and pick on women.
Try addressing the information you bunch of handicaps !
anticultist said this on February 26, 2010 at 3:24 am | Reply

The anti-gun rhetoric assures that PJ will never really have to take this "movement" beyond what it is. He can sit back, make the occasional movie or radio show and people will still buy DVDs and t-shirts. Being a former Libertarian woowoo, he knows damn well how ingrained firearms are in American culture. Any group, organization or movement that takes an anti-Second Amendment line is political suicide. And I'm quite certain that PJ knows it.
Anon said this on February 26, 2010 at 6:35 pm | Reply

It saddens me as someone who wants to see an RBE come to fruition that PJ,JF and RM are pulling their charade for soo long.The truth is that we already have research centres and and sustainble communities around the world.They keep on going on about bringing awareness to the masses but there is already alot of literature and other media that discuss and talk about a post-scarcity society released in the 60s and 70s similar to Jacques "ideas".The fact is we can actually start the work now without all this spreading the message BS we are just being sidetracked by the egos of three very selfish people.I hope to write up a blog for you over the next few days or week to further expand on these points anticultist.If i could have your email address i could type it up on microsoft word/works and email it to you(it may sound silly but ive never blogged before).
Shane Nolan said this on March 10, 2010 at 7:56 pm | Reply

He (Peter Joseph) wants to keep collecting people?... I mean, he has these big numbers that him and the movement talks about, why not take action now? Because those numbers don't hold true? Most likely this is probably the case. Even though this is from February 24th or 25th (I easily get confused by the BTR Dates), they are probably more worried what's being said about them on FACEBOOK oppose to taking real action and doing actual activism. I'm not joking about that.
I would like to flip a quote from Jacque Fresco:
"A church divided is no church at all"
That quote itself can be debunked by Unitarian Universalist Churches. But I already made my point there.
And I can easily say, a movement divided is no movement at all. I think it's plain and simple at this point, plus clear to see. The Zeitgeist Movement is not a movement and I have no problem saying that.
Peter Joseph mentions the World Hunger Project of theirs and I don't see nothing happening with this at all:
http://worldhungersolved.com
It's just fluff and a big empty gesture at best.
There are more serious people out there and here's a list of them:
http://www.rbefoundation.com/grouptopic.php?f=94&t=2122
Collaboration for projects like these are needed through other organizations, because every activist organization wants to end hunger:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=263&id=209191&limit=10&limitstart=10#210886
That's guaranteed.
But you don't see that, you just see another way of promoting the Zeitgeist Movement.
I can't wait when they (RBEF) take off TZM and TVP links and start promoting people actually doing something oppose to fan clubs. I feel more comfortable over at RBEF and take them more seriously than TZM.
But lets review his phases that are not possible yet realistically here:
1. There are no teams in TZM as far as I see it. The only one I saw was the ZDAY Team - before ZDAY, but nothing else now. People in actual projects either split and done independent project(s) on their own without Peter Joseph's guidance if you will or already doing project(s) without Peter Joseph.
2. The Development team is pretty much in RBOSE and probably won't come back to TZM due to their pet peeves with them even though some in RBOSE strongly dislike them - such as myself. Would you join an organization you don't take serious? I wouldn't.
3. Even one of their Project Administrators unregistered from the forums there, he goes by "Stonegoal" (originally from RBEF), he has posted in the "Love This Kid" thread:
Source 1:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/love-this-kid
Source 2:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=60&id=218283#218364
Notice how they hide the post numbers and status of the people that leave, I find that intentionally discrediting people by action without words. It's quite interesting.
4. Then he says the focus should be on Chapters and it seems like it's more about dictating to other Chapters how to act and what they can do. They can't even get along on this level and they want to save the world?
5. As far as the demilitarizing idea goes, I think it would be best to work with countries that already don't have armies. Therefore, you don't have to worry about being threatened, especially if you're there to truly help. The smart thing to do would be trying to see if there are any Country Chapters that has a country listed as a non-militarization zone or a peace zone - if you will and take action on a local level. Connecting with the folks at the Non-Militarization website would be a good start by saying you want people to avoid joining the army as listed in the boycotts in Zeitgeist: Addendum. But that's if I was in the Zeitgeist Movement.
Done.
"Any group, organization or movement that takes an anti-Second Amendment line is political suicide."
I agree.
Then Peter Joseph states that the only Resource Based Economy you can have is a global RBE, this is totally unrealistic and he dismisses the idea of local projects about RBE as far as test city being worked on as an abstraction. That leap of faith is implied. Is it me or is he throwing mixed signals...again?
And Shane, I'll be looking forward to your blog expanding on this matter.
BranManFloMore said this on May 5, 2010 at 12:13 am | Reply

About ending world hunger/poverty another ex moderator by the name of brenton eccles [whom i know you know] is currently working on this aspect missing from TZM, he has recently made a few posts about it on their forum as a member.
source:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=5&id=253651
And his personal blog about it:
http://brentoneccles.com/
He like you Bran and stonegoal decided that moderation and the movement was flawed and needed to either change its ways or fail.
anticultist said this on May 5, 2010 at 12:22 am | Reply

oh and Shanes blog post he made for us is here Bran:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/all-this-has-happened-before/
anticultist said this on May 5, 2010 at 12:26 am | Reply

"4. Then he says the focus should be on Chapters and it seems like it's more about dictating to other Chapters how to act and what they can do. "
------
no doubt...
"They can't even get along on this level and they want to save the world?"
------
yeah, they can't even tie their shoe laces but they claim they
can take care of us for sailing knots. Sorry no, i don't trust them out at sea.
---------
Then Peter Joseph states that the only Resource Based Economy you can have is a global RBE,"
thats impossible, you can't ever have a global RBE. by definition they would have to be local.
again, theres no reason to take him seriously as a systems theorist, whats really going on here is they use going global as an excuse not to go local and chapter and team building as their excuse not to go global; in short, "we are totally helpless, but enlightened, (infants) please send cash."
"this is totally unrealistic and he dismisses the idea of local projects about RBE as far as test city being worked on as an abstraction. "
well... why would he do that? to always put it so far off into the future that it can't possibly happen before he dies.
In short, to keep vamping it instead of manifesting it.
"That leap of faith is implied. Is it me or is he throwing mixed signals...again?"
No, its not you, its the same thing as what anticultist tries to point out about the finances. Trying to have it both ways so that they can pretend to be trying to do something while in fact just
collecting stupidity tax and doing nothing but preaching from a bully pulpit.
As an aside...
the forum is now fluffed to accommodate the work of looking at the threads tvp creates and the abuse on them.
http://www.rbefoundation.com/viewgroup.php?f=389
please bring your lists and memories on over.
"I can't wait when they (RBEF) take off TZM and TVP links and start promoting people actually doing something oppose to fan clubs. I feel more comfortable over at RBEF and take them more seriously than TZM."
thank you!
me 2... thats why i stayed after DM invited me.
hope to see you soon!
:)
prometheuspan said this on May 5, 2010 at 5:29 am | Reply

I'll be checking out Shane's blog soon then.
Thanks for showing me his website, I might have to reach out to him on that regard as you pointed. Even Stonegoal too, I talked to him once in Ventrilo, but it was brief - he was open to what I was having issues with last year.
And as far as the statistics go about 34,000 people dying from hunger a day is quite questionable, especially when you see UN charity commercials talk about how 20,000 people are dying from hunger every day:

As far as I'm concerned, that's a HUGE improvement.
I saw another commercial like last week or two weeks ago saying the same thing, but I can't find that one. But it's obvious and note that this commercial-video was uploaded in 2008, the same time Zeitgeist: Addendum came out. I'm assuming this commercial came out in 2008 of course.
BrentonEccles seems to make good points. People are doing as much as they can to help out and the Zeitgeist Movement does nothing in this regard but say it's patchwork on this issue. Trying telling that to the people that are no longer starving, that's over 10,000 right there. The Zeitgeist Movement makes me sick sometimes.
And since they complain about "patchwork" so much, they can reach out to UN and point out the root causes. But I don't even see that approach from the Zeitgeist Movement. So much for their Communication Team goals.
I get so annoyed reading the forums there now. It's not even funny.
But back on topic and to summarize: It all stems from acts of kindness.
"If only they could end stupidity."
Right back at you Katastron.
BranManFloMore said this on May 5, 2010 at 3:02 pm | Reply

I hear you Bran it infuriates me how their membership make claims of patchwork, whilst using the 34,000 deaths from poverty as a catchphrase to recruit then doing nothing about it.
They are like a parasite using statistics to justify their aims but never doing anything about those statistics, and even brow beat anyone who would propose they actually do something.
Patchwork is it ?
Well a patchwork is better than tearing the whole quilt apart !
Yeah if only zeitgeist could cure its own stupidity. Right back at all of you shameless profiteering propagandists.
anticultist said this on May 5, 2010 at 3:23 pm | Reply

Try telling that to the people that are no longer starving, that's over 10,000 right there right now.*
But yeah, back to those statistics - it makes you wonder how poor Peter Joseph's research was on Zeitgeist: Addendum.
And I read that thread that you linked and BrentonEccles also makes a good point that once you eradicate poverty, you eradicate people from dying from diseases because your reduce poor environmental conditions from the start. That should be common sense, but I guess it isn't.
BranManFloMore said this on May 5, 2010 at 3:32 pm | Reply

" it makes you wonder how poor Peter Joseph's research was on Zeitgeist: Addendum."
I'm not sure how he has the balls to do bachelor level research only and then make films on materials he clearly doesn't have a depth understanding of.
You'd think he would at least interview some experts to get a professional opinion.
"And I read that thread that you linked and BrentonEccles also makes a good point that once you eradicate poverty, you eradicate people from dying from diseases because your reduce poor environmental conditions from the start. That should be common sense, but I guess it isn't."
most of the solutions to problems are self evident to somebody and mysterious only to those who don't want to think about it or who never have.
prometheuspan said this on May 6, 2010 at 2:56 am | Reply

"I'm not sure how he has the balls to do bachelor level research only and then make films on materials he clearly doesn't have a depth understanding of.
You'd think he would at least interview some experts to get a professional opinion."
Check this out from IMDB:
"Factual errors: (At 73:55) In the chapter 'Scarcity', the narrator states: "We don't usually pay for air and tap water, because it is in such high abundance..." But most of us do pay for tap water, with prices usually soaring after privatization (as is even explained elsewhere (at 42:10) in this documentary)."
Source:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1332128
BranManFloMore said this on May 6, 2010 at 4:02 pm | Reply

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