Skeptic Project

http://v-radioblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/zeitgeist-movement-is-not-going.html

hahahah! Wow. Couldn't have predicted THIS... boy that's got to be embarrasing.

Btw I checked the Misc forum and I love how pookzta is still posting his crazy 911 stuff that no one there even cares about so gets no replies :D

haha yeah that is pretty damn funny.

I bet Fresco was thinking 'oh fuck not that old trope...sheesh get lost son and make me some more money.'

although I said I wouldn't talk about TZM/TVP I did say that if I did I'd talk in a way to not sound like a ass.

What Tanktop said

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=231&id=332402&limit=10&limitstart=90&Itemid=100114#332749

Reading through what Tanktop said I 100% agree with it all the way but do to the timing and the nature of the post I have to say this is more perceived of as a attack than criticism.

Tanktops attacks although valid should of happened before the Fresco decided to phase out Peter and TZM as it would of definitely be looked at as a TVP legitimate criticism. A possible reason why in my opinion Tanktop would attack TVP at that Jaque is because Tanktop is under contract in TZM and it of course benefits Tanktop to keep Peter in a power position so he keeps his job (can't fault Tanktop though).

Realistically here Peter/Tanktop (even though their are no leaders in TZm/TVP their; really are leaders in my opinion) should of made these claims long ago and it clearly shows a desperate person trying to keep his job in my opinion (again not faulting Tanktop for doing so just pointing out the obvious).

Questioning about Jacques work from day one as far as getting his blue prints and seeing his work is necessary and their is NO reason why not to have it. I'm sure we could dig up posts of Tanktop defending Fresco when people asked for blue prints and proof on the TZM site. For Tanktop to have completely turned 180 on TVP is because he has alterior motives. All you have to do is follow the money just like in ANY organization. VTV is probably going to stick with which ever group he can benefit the most in a monetary sense (naturally). VTV probably will pick no sides but actions speak louder than words and you'll probably see his actions be more with TZM to get his funding in my opinion. VTV will more than likely play a neutral role while attempting to mend fences but but will lean towards TZM.

TZM is looking more like a interest group at that a interest group that's lost it's ideology and faith and either needs to find a new fringe ideology to adopt, make amends with this ideology (making amends never works once the cut is their it's their forever) or it's followers will find another fringe ideology to cling to which of course would be in another group.

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Peter has made some efforts to start scientific teams (we have project teams with fairly large number of members). Time and time again, the members of these teams come to me with comments such as "we can't get information from The Venus Project on what we should be doing." The standard response is to say that they were told they needed to come to Venus. Seriously, do they think they will build a new planetary system by tutoring scientists one at a time in Venus? If they want things to happen, they need to change this attitude. Jacque and Roxanne need to make public more of the designs, and set up systems where people can learn about them without having to come to Venus or buy Jacque's DVDs. If they can't do that, then someone else will, because it's imperative that we make progress before it's too late.

Although I'm not apart of RBOSE anymore I have to say you did have a good team within TZM dev at the time until they left. I remember when you called RBOSE members a bunch of retards consistently but the thing is you and Peter were a key factor for the split. A team of Dev's that wasn't paid money and did things FOR FREE. Now you have a all paid Dev team. Tanktop you don't handle situations well and this situation with TVP your not handling well at all (Can't say your the only person that doesn't handle situation well in TZM in my opinion).

Talking about change of attitude I'd have to say look in the mirror Tanktop. Speaking about progress what exactly have you done Tanktop outside of you being paid under contract by Peter to be the tech guy? I'm not attacking you but realistically as a tech guy people have noted that you didn't do much and saw you as a coordinator. I agree however that Fresco should stop pushing people to buy his DVD's and book's when people ask how can they can build TVP he should be telling them how, when what where and why build on TVP.

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I wish Tanktop would of added that "Opinions" are not a bad thing as it forms a curiosity to find the truth of a opinion but he didn't. Other than the fact I think Tanktop is doing this to keep his job (again I don't fault him) I 100% agree with his attack on TVP.

Just as a disclaimer: It may looks like I'm in some form of agreement with TZM/TVP at which I'm not. I don't believe in a RBE, I think money is good, I think the rate for technology growth is good and the reason we have is because money is a awesome incentive. The venus project is a Utopian project pie in the sky idea and the only thing that was interesting to me was that it had robots in it. At that i will not down a person for attempting to start a RBE I may even help them but I don't think their is any ONE answer to a problem and I'm the type of guy who believes their is always ways to improve and go farther.

Anyways Tanktop will probably give Peter a pep talk (to keep his job) and Peter will be back into TZM

my thoughts exactly Matt.

The reason Jacque's so wound up about Peter, is if he is no longer doing videos about The Venus Project specifically and only, or if he is not actively asking his membership to fund him with millions of dollars for his 'movie', and finally not pointing all the people to him to buy his materials and pay to visit, then Jacque simply has no more reason to be interested in Peter.

This action of him saying Peter doesnt know what its about, or the movement dont know what its about is actually brutally honest of him, because the truth of it all is this.

If Peter and the movement is not making Jacque money, then Jacque has no use for them any more...its blatantly obvious. Yet as we all know they have not got the intelligence to look at it for what it really is.

BTW liked your point about Merola using the invisible enemy usurping the relationship, thats something I had overlooked. Its a goodpoint how even he is in denial about being played and used for cash.

Also liked Bills point about Tanktop protecting his position and income with Peter. Again other points that I have been on about, Tanktop and the members would never have said anything like this before and there are posts of them defending Jacque when people [actually us] said these same things directly to them.

Yeah agreed being taken for a ride is certainly no fun, and its even more painful when the thing you are being taken for a ride is something that you are so passionate about that you want it to work no matter what. The probability of this matter is they will not be willing to accept they were manipulated like you say, and that is probably only down to the fact they are desperate to change the world for the better. This being the closest option to their hearts is the one they will be most unwilling to let go of and realistically they should accept they need to look elsewhere and figure another way out.

Yeah I just read that final post it was utterly embarassing to read.
As if someone would be willing to accept that a 95 year old grifter with no proven skill sets, education, or technical know how of the modern era was somehow a much more powerful and important person than themselves. They were willing to allow this person to demean them and cuss them out for everyone else in the world to see, and then openly suck it up and make it into a valuable personal message and lesson !

That guy needs to realise that Fresco does not actually give a fuck about him, nor are Jacques points made for other peoples best intentions, if anything they are Fresco publically humiliating them intentionally and demanding more income from them .

Peter's note:
"Friends, a lot of weird talk and speculation has emerged with respect to the relationship of TVP and TZM. I work as a global coordinator for The Movement and will not be altering the need work for that.
In fact, up coming is the Zeitgeist Media Festival which should be fantastic. We already have some large celebrity interest.
Regardless, given my public position, I am subject to attack from both sides. Sadly, even people who support TVP in an often nearly blind obsessive way come up with ways to attack me due to my self-less perseverance and ability to bring this info to different circles in a productive way.
So, I want all those in this situation to remember one thing: without TZM, TVP doesn't exist - it has nothing but ideas and has no viable method to bring it to light. It takes community to do that. That is the point of The Movement. For 30 years they did little to progress. I still ask... what the hell have they been doing for 30 years?!
The problem was they need younger people who understand the zeitgeist and how to affect it, in part.
And with regard to my "lack of understanding" as was carelessly stated by Fresco. I have over 80 hours of recorded personal conversations with Jacque and 10 notebooks on him alone. In fact, I likely have the largest single documentation of this person in existence and I spent 2.5 years doing nothing but research on these issues... so I can admit I am bit insulted by the insinuation that I am "doing my own thing" irrespective of TVP.
For example, the first thing I noticed when I met them is that they have a few books and dvds... but with no technical sourcing or real details at all. It's simply too vague. My job was to un-vague it and get it truly technical/detailed- hence ZMF/Orientation Video/PDF. I think I have done that well and that info is now out there in a coherent way. Please note- I have written literally everything in TZM database online-pdf-video-website, etc.

However, as of now, since I do respect Jacque and his years are limited, I am going to also respect his grievance, regardless of how impulsive and unfounded it is- and refer all public appearances to them and we can see how well they do on their own.

My loyalty is to a train of thought...not gurus or entities... not Fresco, or anyone for that matter. Follow the data- not the people. Its the only way. Ego is the enemy of progress. If people here really want truth and a new world... it wont come from a single person or project."
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Also looks like his facebook account is back?!

"I still ask... what the hell have they been doing for 30 years?!"

LOVE. IT.

Nevermind I have found it as a comment on this video of VTV's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9hO0DMcJ3o

I made this blog about that post:

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2011/04/16/new-mesage-from-peter-merola-about-jacque-fresco/</p>

Yeah agree with you CJ, while Peter has been an absolute Jerk about things for years, and he can not escape this and it will not be forgotten. The plus in all of this is he has finally come to realise some truths about his own movement and Jacque Fresco/TVP finally.

Don't forget his partnership with Mark Joyner.

Peter was never the leader. Despite propaganda to the contrary. And everything I point out above was part of that. He would share his views just like everyone else. He of course had some authority over the website that he pays for and administrates, but it's not like he called up every chapter coordinator and gave them directions or “orders”. It's not like he wrote every single newsletter article. It's not like he did all of the planning and the speaking.

There is a clear misapprehension here between a "leader" and an absolute authoritarian actor or leviathan. The idea that a leader has absolute control over every aspect of an operation or movement is woefully incorrect, and indeed finding any such system where this is the case is nearly impossible. When we consider even the most authoritarian models of governance and control, we find that every leader, patriarch, or autocrat has, beneath him, a wide web of systematic controls that diffuse power discretely. To suggest that because someone lacks total presence in everything a movement or organization does means they are not a leader is a rather wrongheaded approach and empirically misguided. Leadership, often times, rests upon the implicit veto- simply because things take place and are allowed to take place, does not mean that the actor who engaged in such an action is truly free and that there is no leader. We see this on any website that is administrated and where ideas are supposedly disseminated. What is posted and published is done so through an implicit consent on the part of the leader who has the ability to direct and control such action. Simply because others act does not mean they act in accordance with true freedom- they act with consent. And in such models, and I would argue TZM is just such an example, there is always the directing power of the leader at hand. The directing power to create ideas and then maintain control over what those ideas are (you misinterpret what i say in this film; you may disagree, but i maintain my position; this thread is deleted because it crossed this boundary I myself feel is worthy of being defended). To say "virtually every function of the movement was already being run by other people" does not abruptly do away with this already present form of power and leadership, as such is the case for all forms of governance. The Chinese Premier does not govern in daily, human life in China- there are other cabinet members, spokesmen, police, and the like who carry on this work. The issue is that there is an implicit veto lurking everywhere in this system. It is like Foucault's biopower can be allowed to function- people govern themselves- but that the modern apparatus that instituted this homeostatic relationship can still retain the ability to strike out and correct behavior. The above quote is a flaccid argument and only serves to try and ignore the basic principles which underline organizational behavior.

Yeah I agree with cyborg.